The four rules.

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travis

travis

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Ok I have posted just the rule numbers here and several people seem to not know them? I thought they where universal but I guess not so to share the information these are the four golden rules of Firearms as stated by Jeff Cooper. If you do not know who that is Google him and drink in the wealth of information.

If you have kids they should know these by heart as should anybody who touches a firearm BEFORE they do the touching. IMHO

1. All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.

2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)

3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target.

4. Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.

Those will do. We need all four and we do not need five. It should not be necessary to belabor this issue, but life is not perfect.

– Jeff Cooper, Commentaries, Volume 11, Number 4.
 
Hmmmm. Guess I'm going to hell for clearing a pistol twice, emptying two mags completely and putting snap caps in, removing any ammo or magazines from the area (other than the training mags with snap caps) and working on holster draws with my MIL, in which I allowed her to point the gun at me for the purpose of mirroring my movements. Oh, and doing press checks every few minutes to verify gremlins hadn't replaced the snap caps with actual ammo...

This is going to be like the downrange photographer thing. Great rules, and if you don't understand the concept of risk mitigation, you should follow them all the time. If you do understand how to mitigate risk, then you may feel free to play with the grown ups.
 
Lamina said:
Hmmmm. Guess I'm going to hell for clearing a pistol twice, emptying two mags completely and putting snap caps in, removing any ammo or magazines from the area (other than the training mags with snap caps) and working on holster draws with my MIL, in which I allowed her to point the gun at me for the purpose of mirroring my movements. Oh, and doing press checks every few minutes to verify gremlins hadn't replaced the snap caps with actual ammo...

This is going to be like the downrange photographer thing. Great rules, and if you don't understand the concept of risk mitigation, you should follow them all the time. If you do understand how to mitigate risk, then you may feel free to play with the grown ups.
Click to expand...

You know how many times I have heard that the mag/ gun was empty " I swear I checked it" " I NEVER keep loaded mags near the gun" ? You know that 60 percent of firearm incidents are a direct result of not following rule # 3 alone.

Sure you can mitigate risk. If you want to train with another person then this is what blue guns are for. Doing it the way you described is not mitigating risk it is ignoring safety. A blue gun can be had starting about 20 bucks. I have NEVER seen any report from anywhere in the world of a person being shot "accidentally" with a blue gun. The fact is there are THOUSANDS if not hundreds of thousands of people in the grave who SWORE there was not a round in the firearm, chamber or mag but they where all wrong. If you choose to do it your way then that is up to you your an adult and that is your choice. Of course all those people who are dead took the same risk. If the four are ALWAYS followed you can never have a incident.

If you truly wish to mitigate your risk and the risk of those around you then buy a blue gun That way you can be 100 percent sure you will never cause you or someone else to be struck by a round that was not there.
 
There are more than a few people I feel comfortable having 'break' these rules around me, to include walking downrange while they're shooting. Everyone else, I always make sure that YOU are following the rules and don't shoot me.


Oh, and I clear my sidearm, put the ammo about 1 foot away, and practice draws, mag changes (with loaded mags!) and dry fire.
 
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atmay said:
There are more than a few people I feel comfortable having 'break' these rules around me, to include walking downrange while they're shooting. Everyone else, I always make sure that YOU are following the rules and don't shoot me.


Oh, and I clear my sidearm, put the ammo about 1 foot away, and practice draws, mag changes (with loaded mags!) and dry fire.
Click to expand...

Again though I fear on deaf ears. How many people have been killed walking down a hot range? I am sure the time they trusted the people shooting to maintain there muzzle discipline however things happen.

As for your practicing with a loaded mag as long as you adhere to to the rules this will not be a problem. Of course again how many people have been inadvertently shot in the adjoining room or even in the same room when the rules where not followed.

Walking down a hot range is STUPID. It's your life. However if the guys shooting are your friends I am guessing they are as you trust them. What do you think they would go through if something where to happen to you at there hand because you placed your trust in them. Besides any range I have ever been to would ban you for walking down a hot range.

Gentlemen you can say anything you wish but facts is facts. Abiding by the four rules at ALL times is always the safest route. There are more then enough of DEAD and wounded people with any of the same excuses. There are of course non of either from any person's following those rules and holding those around them to the same.
 
travis said:
If you have kids they should know these by heart as should anybody who touches a firearm BEFORE they do the touching. IMHO
Click to expand...

When I take out new shooters, I explain things in general before, and I go over it again with gentle corrections as they load, fire etc. But I don't make them memorize 4 rules from a chart or something like that before letting them touch a gun. If someone has no experience with guns, it can be a little overwhelming to throw all kinds of info at them like that. I stress safety and explain thing in general, but teach them specifics as we move along to keep them from getting lost.

Lamina said:
This is going to be like the downrange photographer thing.
Click to expand...

I agree with what you're saying, but dude, photographer standing inches from the target of random students he doesn't know for cool pics?

travis said:
If the four are ALWAYS followed you can never have a incident.
Click to expand...

You'll also never be able to deal with a burglar in the hallway while your family is home. Armed professionals won't be able to cover their brethren in high risk situations, fight as a team, disarm their opponents or even move around very much for that matter. The rules exist for a reason, and are the absolute safest way to handle firearms in a safe situation. But when you step outside of theory, often the safest place to be is with someone you trust muzzle sweeping you on a regular basis, or giving you gunpowder tattoos and hearing damage while protecting you, themselves and everyone else. It's kind of like being taught in the 1st grade that it's impossible to subtract 7 from 2, but then learning about negative numbers a few years later.

With that said, I get pissy when someone points their gun at me because they suck at firearms handling or just don't think it's a big deal. There's a time and a place for it, and if there isn't a specific need for the dangerous activity, it shouldn't be taking place, especially if I don't know you from Adam.
 
Lamina said:
Great rules, and if you don't understand the concept of risk mitigation, you should follow them all the time. If you do understand how to mitigate risk, then you may feel free to play with the grown ups.
Click to expand...
+1

There are Cooper's rules and then there are big boys' rules.

Travis, you were doing good with your first post. Then you went full retard lecturing us like we are schoolchildren.
 
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GSG said:
Armed professionals won't be able to cover their brethren in high risk situations, fight as a team, disarm their opponents or even move around very much for that matter.
Click to expand...

I was thinking this same thing. As an instructor, I teach the four weapons safety rules first and drill them into peoples heads. But then in training and practice with the operational guys, we have violated these rules. There is a point when we must trust each other and approach the most realistic portions of training by utilizing every safety measure available, but still be able to train in a manner that is as realistic as can be created. There is a difference between the local range and professional training. At the "gun club", home, and pretty much everywhere esle in the world, these rules are essential. But yes, in training of those who will be heading into harms way, they must be taught how to handle firearms in an active environment while mainting as high a degree of safety as possible. Even then, the rules are followed to as strict of a standard as can be managed. "Flagging" of others with a weapon in any condition is a huge violation and has resulted in the revocation of peoples toys. My $0.02.
 
atmay said:
There are more than a few people I feel comfortable having 'break' these rules around me, to include walking downrange while they're shooting. Everyone else, I always make sure that YOU are following the rules and don't shoot me....................
Click to expand...


Do that on my range and you will be gone. I don't care how good of a shot you are or how good of a gun you have accidents happen. Thats why they call them accidents. Why it it your job to make sure I obey the rules, but you don't have to?
 
Yes travis, I agree with you. Will I eventually do stuff that violates those rules? Probably, but I know the risk involved.

Once the 4 rules are embedded in your natural habits and you don't have to think about them anymore, that's when I feel that you can enter into the zone of different drills/scenarios that break those rules.

NOTE: This doesn't make it safe, the danger is still there. However with experienced people, the chance of an incident goes down.

I remember a time back in high school english class. Couldn't remember exactly what we were reading, but I noticed the "classic" author had violated a few dictation rules. I pointed out that I would have points taken off a paper if I violated these rules. My teacher said, "Once you know all the rules is when you can break them."
 
CCW is impossible with rule #2.

Here is the one rule you need.... don't pull the trigger when your gun is pointed at something you don't want to shoot.

Coopers rules are guidelines, as you can break multiple ones without consequences. My one rule if broken, has consequences
 
When I teach new shooters at the trap range, I start with:

There are three sets of rules: Basic safety, the rules of Trap, and the etiquette of a specific club.

Basic Safety: Always keep it pointed in a safe direction; always keep the action open until you're ready to shoot; always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire. ( All positive, as opposed to prohibitory, statements)

Then the rules of trap (Don't close your action until the person on your left has fired, etc.)

Our place is not overly twitchy WRT etiquette. But I DO tell them to "take their time", as the pattens on the trap house were not caused by not rushing.... The more experienced shooters will understand!

That being said, no one blinks when experienced shooters close before the person on their left fires - it's a Trap thing to have a rythm, and it's safe.

The rules are for the instruction of those who don't know "What they're doing" due to ignorance ( never shot before) as opposed to stupidity.

You can't fix stupid, though stupid will often fix itself....


And, yes, sometimes they're not rules so much as guidelines. But with the stupidity exception noted above, you'll know when it's "right" to break them.
 
Supermoto said:
CCW is impossible with rule #2.

Here is the one rule you need.... don't pull the trigger when your gun is pointed at something you don't want to shoot.

Coopers rules are guidelines, as you can break multiple ones without consequences. My one rule if broken, has consequences
Click to expand...

Gonzo said:
There's a difference between doing something dangerously and doing something that dangerous safely.
Click to expand...

I was going to point that out as well. I guess that this guy doesn't carry. Because you not only sweep other people all day long, you're sweeping yourself as well.
 
dhuze said:
Do that on my range and you will be gone. I don't care how good of a shot you are or how good of a gun you have accidents happen. Thats why they call them accidents. Why it it your job to make sure I obey the rules, but you don't have to?
Click to expand...

My safety is my concern. Your safety? Your concern. But, you tell me you aren't comfortable being downrange of a loaded firearm, or whatever, and I'll make sure it doesn't happen.


And I'll more than likely NEVER shoot on your range. I have my people I trust, and we have our range that doesn't have this blind dogma regarding Cooper's rules.
 
travis said:
Ok I have posted just the rule numbers here and several people seem to not know them? I thought they where universal but I guess not so to share the information these are the four golden rules of Firearms as stated by Jeff Cooper. If you do not know who that is Google him and drink in the wealth of information.

If you have kids they should know these by heart as should anybody who touches a firearm BEFORE they do the touching. IMHO

1. All guns are always loaded. Even if they are not, treat them as if they are.

2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. (For those who insist that this particular gun is unloaded, see Rule 1.)

3. Keep your finger off the trigger till your sights are on the target.

4. Identify your target, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you have not positively identified.

Those will do. We need all four and we do not need five. It should not be necessary to belabor this issue, but life is not perfect.

– Jeff Cooper, Commentaries, Volume 11, Number 4.
Click to expand...

To avoid confusion, I've been trying to keep consistent with what the NRA teaches:

Rule #1: Always point the muzzle in a safe direction.
This is, effectively a re-wording of Jeff's #2 rule.

I see Jeff's #4 rule winds up being a secondary supplement to this one. It falls under the "Are you sure?" clause. If you don't know what you are going to shoot at and what's beyond it, you can't know if the direction is safe.

Rule #2: Keep your finger off the trigger until you are on the target.
This is Jeff's rule #3

Rule#3: Keep the gun unloaded until you are ready to use it.
Always treating a gun like it was loaded until proven otherwise is definitely falls into the "are you sure you are complying with this rule?" coverage.

I personally use a "5 second rule" when considering a gun unloaded. Specifically, if it has been more than 5 seconds since I verified that the chamber is empty, It goes back to getting the "it's loaded" treatment. On a side note I also get a certain sense of sadistic pleasure busting long-time shooters on this by passing them guns with snap-caps in the chamber.

This is not to discount Jeff's set of rules. His #1 rule spent upwards of 50 years in the #1 slot on the "Ten Commandments Of Gun Safety". His other three show up on that list in various locations depending on which one you look at.

The fact is this:
The NRA simplified it within the past 15 years or so just to make it quicker for novices to memorize. All the other rules can be covered in the first three by always asking the question: "Are you sure you're following them?"

From www.thegunzone.com
1945commandments.jpg
 
Supermoto said:
The is a bad FUDD rule.
Click to expand...

All ordinance safety rules are written in blood.
And #3 is no exception. One of my late grandfather's friends borrowed his shotgun, and had left it with one in the chamber in his truck. Through a set of circumstances not related to me, he managed to have an accidental discharge, complete with a subsequent loss of his leg. And not my Grandfather's leg, but the poor slob he loaned the shotgun to.

By the way, part of defensive carry (including CCW) means you are maintaining a constant state of readiness regarding its use.
 
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