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The economy has gone silent, power plants, public utilities have stopped....

doobie

doobie

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You have no power coming from the electric lines, no water flowing through the tubing coming into your house, no natural gas as well, grocery stores/markets are looted or too dangerous to risk seeing if anything is left, no phone (land or cell) and no internet access. All you have is what you have with you or stocked up.

None of the above services will be online again in any foreseeable time....What do you do? How long can you survive?

What percentage of the population do you think would survive 1 week? 2 weeks? 1 month? 3 months? 6 months? 12 months?

Are you prepared? Could you survive 12 months?
 
Good thought-provoking thread.

I'm not a "survivalist" (yet), so let's see...

We have enough firewood to get through the winter. We'll need 1 supplemental tank of heating oil, which would be a problem if that became unavailable because it's our source of hot water.

We have a well and septic tank so we're not dependent on public utilites for water and sewerage. But we need electricity to power the pump, oil burner, and everything else in the house. I've been seriously considering getting a generator not so much as preperation for anarchy, but because our local utility sucks so bad that we lose power all the time, often for long periods of time.

We're not stocked up on canned or dried food. I guess that would be our biggest weakness at this point.
 
If you don't think this could happen, and chances are one in a quadrillion it won't, think about the response to hurricane Katrina's destruction in the New Orleans area.

If you think our friends in DC screwed that up, imagine if it were a situation where say the whole eastern seaboard had interruptions of electricity, food and liquor distribution, and the availability of potable water. Add to that mix if the sewer systems and trash removal services were disrupted and you are looking at trouble.

IMHO it is not too far out of the realm of possibility. Imagine a long term blackout as we had in 1964, or the East Coast blackout of 8/2003? Another Blizzard of '78 situation?
A multiple target terrorist attack?

Food, water, heat, guns, ammo.... the basics
 
From the movie Half Baked when their friend is locked up


Dave Chapelle: "How long can you last in here man?"

Friend: "A while, Four maybe Five.........thirty."


I honestly feel that being in Ma groups would organize to try to "share the wealth" or should I say "share YOUR wealth."

This state is so F'd up people would be trying to pass town bylaws so the people who were smart and prepared have to share. This is why we all need to keep propper supplies to barricade our homes. Plywood, nails, sheetmetal etc. I might even make a bedsheat sized sign. TRESSPASSERS WILL BE SHOT, survivors will be shot again. Post that in front.

Dead:

5% population death in first week: (life support, deaths that happened during chaos)
10% dead in 3 months: people who require life sustaining medical supplies, dialisis, newborn deaths with no hospitals, etc
15% dead in 6 months: unprepared begin to starve off or get ill from malnutrition.
 
Last edited:
lord1234 said:
I'd last a minimum of a couple of weeks. My fiancee and I have started stocking up on canned goods as well as water filtration tablets
Click to expand...


I think you mean water purification tablets as one needs a water filter to "filter" water. Those do work in a pinch but a real water filter can be had for $70 that will work (and taste) far better and prevent a much wider assortment of illnesses. I had a Pur (Brand) Hiker model which, for nearly 7 months, filtered 90% of the water I drank flawlessly. Trust me, when the water source is a brackish pond you're going to come face to face with the lmits of "purification tablets." [wink]
 
In the years before Y2K I thought a lot about this subject. I realized that even if Y2K turned out to be a bust (as it did) rational preparations make sense. Living in New England means we must make preparations for heating. This is not an option but I believe most New Englanders don't really understand this. It is very possible that we could have a blizzard much worse than the blizzard of 78 and people could be without power and all other services for an extended time. This is a much bigger deal in the winter than in the summer. It is also more likely to happen in the winter than the summer because of storms.

Of course the OP isn't about loosing services because of natural causes. The reality is we could lose services for any time from a minute to forever. The decision we all need to make is where along that continium do we want to prepare for. We are much more likely to lose services for a short time than a very long time but it is possible that any scenario could happen. Just how prepared do you want to be?

There were people who wasted lots of money on Y2K preparations. They bought items that went unused and ended up thrown away. That's why we need to carefully evaluate our needs and have preparations that fit the length of time we determine to be prepared for.

My wife and I have adequate stocks for an extended time but our concern is unprepared friends descending on us. I can turn zombies away but friends are a different thing. This is a real issue.

Stockpiling food requires thought. Canned goods don't last forever and some last longer than others. For example acidic canned goods such as tomatoes and pineapple don't last nearly as long as other items. They literally eat the can away from the inside out. Any stockpile shouold be in a rotation so that food nearing the end of life is used and replaced by new items. It is easy to get lax and find your system out of balance. It is also easy to find a can in the back of the pantry dated 1996 and have to make a decision about what to do with it.

No matter what plans and preparations we make there could be a scenario that blows it out of the water. For example we could build a fortress stocked with everything needed for years but find that it is necessary to leave immediately or possibly to be caught away from home with no way of getting there.

As in everything the more you know the better off you are. Knowledge isn't overrated. Of course knowledge in the right area helps. It is also critical that we know who we can trust and who we can't.
 
Here's a copy and paste regarding the shelf life of canned goods..

How long can I keep canned food on the shelf and does it retain its nutritional content?

Most canned foods can be kept for at least two years from the date of processing. Canned food does retain its safety and nutritional value well beyond two years, but it may have some variation in quality, such as a change of color and texture. The canning process uses high-heat that renders the food commercially sterile. Products kept on the shelf or in the pantry for long periods of time are not a concern regarding food safety. In fact, canned food has an almost indefinite shelf life at moderate temperatures.

Source:
Canned Food Alliance. (n.d.). Frequently Asked Questions. www.mealtime.org
Click to expand...

Basically, if you trust the canner, the canned foods are good indefinitely assuming normal storage conditions. The nutrition and "palatability" will decrease over time as molecules naturally break down, but the food should be safe to eat as long as the can's integrity hasn't been compromised. (bulging, dents, rust, or contamination INSIDE the can)

My $.02 from many long paranoid nights of research. [grin]
 
pernox said:
Here's a copy and paste regarding the shelf life of canned goods..



Basically, if you trust the canner, the canned foods are good indefinitely assuming normal storage conditions. The nutrition and "palatability" will decrease over time as molecules naturally break down, but the food should be safe to eat as long as the can's integrity hasn't been compromised. (bulging, dents, rust, or contamination INSIDE the can)

My $.02 from many long paranoid nights of research. [grin]
Click to expand...

Good or not, there's always something unappetizing about a can of food that looks like applesauce but labeled "Sweet Corn", not matter if it is still good or not. My food plan in a winter storm is to keep a full freezer, use the ice/snow from outside to keep it frozen and use propane and wood to grill it. My BBQ dry rub won't go bad.

Admit it... you would trade supplies for some BBQ.


Fish
 
So..... the question is.... If you lost power, how did everyone do?

I went through a lot more gasoline that I would have liked. Why:

I kept my generator running 18 hours a day. I really would like to get that down to 12 at most. Problem was I didn't want to wake up every 4 hours at night to shut it down.

I'm hoping once I have a wood stove I'll be in a better situation. Unfortunately the stove was supposed to be installed last Thursday but due to weather it wasn't. I have to wait a week and a half now, and hope the weather is better then.
 
doobie said:
I kept my generator running 18 hours a day. I really would like to get that down to 12 at most. Problem was I didn't want to wake up every 4 hours at night to shut it down.
Click to expand...

Put essential circuits on a battery bank with an inverter Things like freezer and refrigerator can run for a few hours when the genny is running then let the house "coast" for a while off the battery bank while you're sleeping. after you wake up start the genny for a while, do laundry, let the freezer and refrigerator chill down and then shut the genny down again. Stretches out your fuel supply.
 
Yup -- even a small generator like mine (1850 watts) is very expensive, and makes the grid look like a bargain. Mine works out to 7.5 miles per gallon if it were a car, or $300/mo at $1.75 gas prices, depending on how you want to look at it.
 
MrTwigg said:
Put essential circuits on a battery bank with an inverter Things like freezer and refrigerator can run for a few hours when the genny is running then let the house "coast" for a while off the battery bank while you're sleeping. after you wake up start the genny for a while, do laundry, let the freezer and refrigerator chill down and then shut the genny down again. Stretches out your fuel supply.
Click to expand...

Well I had UPS for that...for whatever the reason they wouldn't work. I need to investigate it more before the next outage.
 
I was thinking the same thing, In fact do you remember the canteens that could be purchased at one time at the surplus stores that had a small pocket on the outside of the pouch that the canteen was carried in ?

That small pouch was there the water purification tablet bottle went.

I guess I'm showing my age by knowing this but what the hell.



Raoul Duke said:
I think you mean water purification tablets as one needs a water filter to "filter" water. Those do work in a pinch but a real water filter can be had for $70 that will work (and taste) far better and prevent a much wider assortment of illnesses. I had a Pur (Brand) Hiker model which, for nearly 7 months, filtered 90% of the water I drank flawlessly. Trust me, when the water source is a brackish pond you're going to come face to face with the lmits of "purification tablets." [wink]
Click to expand...


Also keep in mind a smaller Genny is more efficient on fuel than running the larger unit you may have when you only need to operate a few appliances or lights.


MrTwigg said:
Put essential circuits on a battery bank with an inverter Things like freezer and refrigerator can run for a few hours when the genny is running then let the house "coast" for a while off the battery bank while you're sleeping. after you wake up start the genny for a while, do laundry, let the freezer and refrigerator chill down and then shut the genny down again. Stretches out your fuel supply.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
SemiAutoSam said:
Also keep in mind a smaller Genny is more efficient on fuel than running the larger unit you may have when you only need to operate a few appliances or lights.
Click to expand...

I had to restart the genny when I blew the fuse trying to draw too much current. An "energy star" washer at the same time my fridge kicked in kicked if off. Beyond that for the average time I think my generator is more than I need and probably wasting a lot, which is why I need to get an inverter to power my freezer down stairs.
 
doobie said:
So..... the question is.... If you lost power, how did everyone do?

I went through a lot more gasoline that I would have liked. Why:

I kept my generator running 18 hours a day. I really would like to get that down to 12 at most. Problem was I didn't want to wake up every 4 hours at night to shut it down.

I'm hoping once I have a wood stove I'll be in a better situation. Unfortunately the stove was supposed to be installed last Thursday but due to weather it wasn't. I have to wait a week and a half now, and hope the weather is better then.
Click to expand...


mine's still on.
86 hrs!...the nat gas consumptiion is appx 125CFH or 30Ccf/day..so it's cost me about $170 to run since Thurs 11PM.
 
Tater said:
Dead:

5% population death in first week: (life support, deaths that happened during chaos)
10% dead in 3 months: people who require life sustaining medical supplies, dialisis, newborn deaths with no hospitals, etc
15% dead in 6 months: unprepared begin to starve off or get ill from malnutrition.
Click to expand...

You're very generous with those numbers. Many, if not most, inner city people would be dead within the first two weeks. Many of these cities have hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people living over a relatively small area. No power, water and sewage will lead to chaos in a very short time. Within 72 hours, the most suceptible people (those who require life support) would start to die. After a week without water, many more people are going to start getting weaker and weaker. Without sewage, waste gets backed up and disease starts to spread. The weakened people can't fight off the bacterial infections associated with exposure to waste and many will die. Since the government isn't bringing in food/water/medecine for people, you can bet they aren't removing the corpses of the deceased, leading to more disease spreading and more death. That doesn't include the violence of people fighting over the last bottle of water or gallon of gas.

As cold as it sounds, your best bet for survival would be to have a food and water supply at home and the supplies needed to shelter in place until the majority of the unprepared people have died off.
 
Me and the wife have already discussed survival preparations on a long term scale 'just in case'. since we will be moving to PA if all goes as planned. But right now living in FL not to worried about the weather (we have hurricanes but ehh, season is over for now). We need to pick up some bottled water and a good purifier. We are getting a list of Mountain House stuff that we like and will be stocking that in a SHTF container.

A few things we decided on was to have a house with a small amount of land to support farming, some livestock as well as some natural habitat for deer and other game. If possible have a small pond, stream (or ideally both) run through the property.

Some things the wife wants to learn (before we started talking about survival stuff) is canning, pickling, cheese making and how to raise goats and sheep.

Right now we building our ARs (for protection) and we are going to attend a Appleseed shoot in PA next October to learn proper marksmanship (Many thanks to Nickle for helping me out here).

We are far from where we want to be, we could be along further but are better off than others around where I live.
 
Our emergency preparations enabled us to easily handle the four day power outage from the ice storm. The only discomfort was due to loss of telephone and Internet because Comcast was down. Cell phones took care of most of the telephone needs (however we had 23 voice mail messages when the power came back). The lack of Internet, however, meant I had no NES for four days - bummer.

Our 8 KW PTO generator easily handled all our household requirements. We used about 25 gallons of diesel during the outage. Our 10 gallon fuel tank provided about 14 hours of power resulting in a cost of about $2/hour.

During the Y2K era I kept a stockpile of diesel but have recently become lax and only had 15 gallons on hand. This proved to be no problem since I was easily able to replenish but it would have been bad news if I were unable to get more fuel. I could have made the fuel last much longer by being very conservative but there is no way I can stock enough fuel for months of living off the grid. Extended periods without utility power will demand a change of lifestyle.
 
hmm, I have a group of friends that we have decided a long time ago if SHTF we would all team up together for survival. between the lot of us we have training in most necessary areas, enough firepower/ammo to hold our own against a small invasion and the ability to hunt and harvest what we needed. we're a group of hunters/campers/hikers and military/security so we estimate that we'd be able to survive for a good few years before we'd be running low on some of our resources.
 
pernox said:
Here's a copy and paste regarding the shelf life of canned goods..



Basically, if you trust the canner, the canned foods are good indefinitely assuming normal storage conditions. The nutrition and "palatability" will decrease over time as molecules naturally break down, but the food should be safe to eat as long as the can's integrity hasn't been compromised. (bulging, dents, rust, or contamination INSIDE the can)

My $.02 from many long paranoid nights of research. [grin]
Click to expand...

If you trust that "spin" from the canned goods alliance you could be in a bad way. I work in a food pantry and we deal with donated canned goods. You would be surprised how many obviously bad cans we have to throw away. Some of them are bulging, some have tops that click when you press on them, some have leaking seams. I don't believe their spin.

For safety reasons we follow the guidelines provided by the Greater Boston Food Bank for food safety. Actually I think the GBFB guidelines are too strict but in general it is better to be safe than sorry. These guidelines say that canned goods are good for 2 - 5 years after the expiration date on the can unless the product is acidic such as fruit or tomato products then the time is limited to 1 year.

Canned food quality and nutrition gradually decreases as the can ages but in general I wouldn't have a problem eating a can of soup or tuna that was 10 years past its expiration date if it has been stored in reasonable conditions. I, however, am very much more concerned about eating an old can of acidic food. I ponder what the chemical byproducts are as the tomato acid slowly eats through the interior coating and then through the steel of a can. There must be an interim state where the food is questionable but there is no physical indication of a problem just by looking at the can.
 
Palladin said:
mine's still on.
86 hrs!...the nat gas consumptiion is appx 125CFH or 30Ccf/day..so it's cost me about $170 to run since Thurs 11PM.
Click to expand...

I've used approximately 36 gallons of gas or around $57 (this includes what will be used until I get home). Now I'm kind of expecting to get power this weekend/early next week. I'm hoping to convert to propane so I can have power longer than my storage fuel, which is somewhat limited.
 
My wife and I were talking about having as stockpile of food were something like this to happen again (we live in Bridgewater, MA and weren't affected). We try to donate cans to the food bank in town whenever we are able and figured we should start our own "food bank" at home. With a "tastes good" shelf life of 2 years, we will donate everything we have to the local FB after one year and replenish our own supply. Now if she'll just learn how to start a fire, she'll be fine; I work for NStar the electric utility in Boston and with a major storm I could be gone for days.
 

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