The 90-Day Grace Period

[NeverMiss]

So, I am about to go and renew my LTC-A. My PD advised me to bring it in "about a month before" so that's what I am going to do. Of course, My PD assured me that as long as I hand in the paperwork BEFORE the expiration date, I will be OK for those 90 days.

So, here's the question. Should I carry a copy of said paperwork along with my expired LTC, in case I ever have to show it to a LEO??

What happens if I go to buy ammo, or even a new gun?? I usually go to the small town guy that knows me well, and it probably won't be an issue, but lets say I go to Wallmart, or Dicks...will they accept an "expired" LTC along with the paperwork that proves that I am OK?

I am so confused....

 

[jasons]

So, I am about to go and renew my LTC-A. My PD advised me to bring it in "about a month before" so that's what I am going to do. Of course, My PD assured me that as long as I hand in the paperwork BEFORE the expiration date, I will be OK for those 90 days.

Good luck, even the fastest towns are taking longer than a month. I personally know one guy who's been waiting 9 months for a renewal at this point. He's technically a felon now because he kept his guns after the 90-day grace period expired. (Shhh, don't tell....)

So, here's the question. Should I carry a copy of said paperwork along with my expired LTC, in case I ever have to show it to a LEO??

Not a bad idea. It's not legally binding, but it might help you in a jab. Couldn't hurt anyway.

What happens if I go to buy ammo, or even a new gun?? I usually go to the small town guy that knows me well, and it probably won't be an issue, but lets say I go to Wallmart, or Dicks...will they accept an "expired" LTC along with the paperwork that proves that I am OK?

You can't. The system will not accept an expired LTC even if it's in the grace period.

I am so confused....

So is Martha. http://goal.org/newspages/state-of-denial.html

 

[noxin]

From my readings here, most shops have no way to know if you are in your grace period (ie: actually submitted your renewal) and will treat your expired LTC as just that, expired. Too much liability if you are actually expired. I'm surprised the local guy would put his neck out, unless you are childhood friends and he would trust his life and lively hood to you.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Nothing quite as convenient as carrying around 4 sheets of paper in your wallet for 2-3 months!!!

Ask for a receipt. Copy it and put that in your wallet.

No, legally nobody is supposed to sell you anything with an expired LTC (that is how a query would show it). You are only entitled to possess/carry during the grace period, nothing more. Better than nothing but certainly not what it should be!

 

[Len-2A Training]

Good luck, even the fastest towns are taking longer than a month. I personally know one guy who's been waiting 9 months for a renewal at this point. He's technically a felon now because he kept his guns after the 90-day grace period expired. (Shhh, don't tell....)

Please provide a citation for that!

I'm sure that you know better than to believe this! It is a civil infraction ONLY with an expired LTC, NOT a criminal offense. Re-read that law again.

From my readings here, most shops have no way to know if you are in your grace period (ie: actually submitted your renewal) and will treat your expired LTC as just that, expired. Too much liability if you are actually expired. I'm surprised the local guy would put his neck out, unless you are childhood friends and he would trust his life and lively hood to you.

MIRCS will not let it go thru. A PD query will show "expired". ONLY a phone call to FRB will tell the true status of a "grace period LTC".

A dealer would be risking his FFL MA Dealers License for doing any transaction during the grace period.

 

[NeverMiss]

Thanks for the information...I think I get it now

yes, I am being optimistic on my PD, but we can hope!

So, if it goes beyond the 90 days, I should still be able to keep everything because my wife has her LTC-A. Right??

 

[jasons]

Please provide a citation for that!

I'm sure that you know better than to believe this! It is a civil infraction ONLY with an expired LTC, NOT a criminal offense. Re-read that law again.

Yep, you're right. I forgot about that. He's technically a criminal, but not a felon. (Yet.)

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yep, you're right. I forgot about that. He's technically a criminal, but not a felon. (Yet.)

No, it is not a criminal offense, thus he's not a criminal. It's laid out in MGL as a "civil infraction", like a parking or speeding ticket!


-------

To his other question:

Since Wife has LTC-A, even without a grace period there is no violation for keeping the guns in the house.

 

[jasons]

No, it is not a criminal offense, thus he's not a criminal. It's laid out in MGL as a "civil infraction", like a parking or speeding ticket!

OK, then he's just a very bad boy.

My point was that's taking so long to get renewals that the 90 day grace period is basically a joke.

 

[Len-2A Training]

OK, then he's just a very bad boy.

My point was that's taking so long to get renewals that the 90 day grace period is basically a joke.

Not letting you get away with that . . . he did nothing wrong, it's on the PD/State. So no "bad boy" status either.

The grace period is a joke because of the terrible way that it is implemented. No proof need be given to applicant, no "check box" on MIRCS to designate an "in process" status, etc.

 

[BattleSnail]

I'm in my grace period. My issuing authority told me I'm fine to carry, no additional paperwork needed. We'll see what happens in the unlikely event I have to show my LTC to a cop in the next month or two...

What really pisses me off though is that I can't buy a gun now until the state gets off their ass.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I'm in my grace period. My issuing authority told me I'm fine to carry, no additional paperwork needed. We'll see what happens in the unlikely event I have to show my LTC to a cop in the next month or two...

When was the last time you had to show any cop your LTC?

In close to 38 years, that number for me is ZERO and I've been in the presence of LEOs and gov't officials very often (and I'm not talking about when working as a LEO nor even in my own town).

 

[jasons]

Not letting you get away with that . . . he did nothing wrong, it's on the PD/State. So no "bad boy" status either.

I assure you that I said that with sarcasm mode set to 11. Obviously it's the state that's the problem, he renewed will in advance (six months before expiration) and jumped through all the required hoops. He did nothing wrong (except perhaps for buying a house here.)

 

[BattleSnail]

When was the last time you had to show any cop your LTC?

In close to 38 years, that number for me is ZERO and I've been in the presence of LEOs and gov't officials very often (and I'm not talking about when working as a LEO nor even in my own town).

never...it's why I said "unlikely event"

 

[MisterHappy]

Charlie Foxtrot....Mass style!

 

[NixieTube]

My LTC-A renewal took 5 1/2 months from the date I submitted the paperwork (give or take a few days) and I was outside the 90-day "grace period" and therefore unable to purchase any guns or ammo. for about 2.5 months.

[Sorry, here I meant to say: 2.5 months longer than the "grace period" after the license expires. Once you're in the "grace period" you cannot purchase any guns or ammo. Some grace that is: "Well, after your license expires, you have a 90 day grace period during which time you can continue to drive your car. But you can't buy any gas for it, and if you want or need a new one, you cannot buy one. In fact you probably cannot even legally sell the one you have!"

I was told at the beginning that it would be several weeks, and it ... stretched. I actually made a couple of tentative visits to the PD to ask about the progress and was informed that I would be called. Okey Dokey, Thank You Officer.

In the end it was renewed and everything worked out OK, but I really didn't enjoy being in the post-"grace period" time. Hopefully that was a one-time thing.

Having said that, keeping a copy to witness the fact that you've submitted your renewal application doesn't sound like a bad idea to me if your renewal runs past the grace period - for whatever reason. I had it, printed on 20lb thin paper both sides and folded down super tight, stuffed in my wallet during those 2.5 months. I knew that buying anything was out of the question and I knew that the likelihood was remote that I would be asked for the card, but I still wanted to have evidence that I had submitted my renewal paperwork - just in case . So I made some double sided copies. It's not really much more "personal" than anything else you might carry in your wallet. Just thicker.

Also, I used Adobe Illustrator to import and fill out the MA PDF so that everything was very nicely typed and printed. I printed an extra copy duplex and folded it down and stuffed it in my wallet.

Here's hoping your renewal gets processed more promptly than my most recent one did, so your own peace of mind doesn't require you to do that.

 

[NixieTube]

In fact, after thinking about it overnight, I'd like to see that be adopted as a uniform "good will" improvement to the process state-wide:

That you receive a receipt of some kind from your local PD that you have, in fact, submitted all required paperwork to process your renewal. I mean, you give them a check and it's filled out. I think you should get back a receipt that says, basically: "We've received the paperwork to process the renewal of License No. XXXXXXX on XX/XX/XXXX." With the seal of the licensing authority stamped onto it. Or at least a receipt for the check, which I didn't get. I can't think of many other instances where you give someone a check for something and don't at least receive a receipt.

That would take about 30 seconds when the paperwork is accepted, and would eliminate some of the ambiguity.

 

[Ultimate]

In fact, after thinking about it overnight, I'd like to see that be adopted as a uniform "good will" improvement to the process state-wide:

That you receive a receipt of some kind from your local PD that you have, in fact, submitted all required paperwork to process your renewal. I mean, you give them a check and it's filled out. I think you should get back a receipt that says, basically: "We've received the paperwork to process the renewal of License No. XXXXXXX on XX/XX/XXXX." With the seal of the licensing authority stamped onto it. Or at least a receipt for the check, which I didn't get. I can't think of many other instances where you give someone a check for something and don't at least receive a receipt.

That would take about 30 seconds when the paperwork is accepted, and would eliminate some of the ambiguity.

When the check is cashed, your bank will almost always provide you a way to see/print the check. That is your receipt.

I applied for renewal on 12/10/2013, paid with a check. They finally deposited the check yesterday, 01/10/2014. I immediately printed the scanned copy of my check and filed it for my record. By them depositing the check, it is proof positive that I applied and paid for my renewal before my expiration date. I am now covered for the 90-day grace period should the state take FOREVER to process my app.