Hi guys and gals, I had been shooting my muzzle loader earlier this week and again today. I wasn't able to get out last year so I hadn't shoot it sense 2009. The gun is a gray laminate wood stock and stainless barrel 50 cal. TC Omega with a Bushnell 1.5 to 4.5 power shotgun/ muzzle loader scope. I shot it Wed off a bench with the gun in a "lead-sled rest and my shots were all over the place. So I figured maybe the powder was too old. I went and bought new powder and primers and finally got the chance to shoot it again today. I am shooting two 50 grain 777 pellets for a total of 100 grains of powder with a 275 grain Maxi-Ball. I have not had any problems with this combo before. Well today I had the same problem my shoots were going everywhere. I would make a small adjustment and it would be on the opposite side of the target. Well I had another of the same scope still in the box so I changed scopes and still have the problem. I took the scope off and tried irons and still shots all over. I am running a brush and a wet patch followed by 2 dry patches down the barrel after ever 2 shots. The barrel is bright shiny stainless with good clean lands and groves. Over the two days I put more than 50 rounds through it. I was shooting at a slow pace and especially today the barrel didn't really warm up much at all. I was shooting at 50 yards, I would get a couple shots within a couple inches of each other then the next would be a foot away. I don't get it, any suggestions? Is it not stabilizing the bullets or something? I am reasonably sure this is the same bullet weight I have used in years past. I know the powder is the same charge and brand. Thanks for any help.
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TC Omega problems... help/ suggestions please
- Thread starter Brian5582
- Start date
MisterHappy
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- Jul 28, 2009
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Stupid question, but is the ammo of the correct caliber? That's about the only thing I can see as a source of error. (note - I'm not a BP expert, but you seem to have taken care of all the other possibilities....)
I too have a TC Omega. The load is use with it is the TC Superglide Shock Wave sabot w/250 grain bullet, over two 777 50 grain pellets. I've got it grouping well, 2" high @ 50 yards (open sights).
One thing to keep in mind when benching a ML, or a slug out of a shotgun, is that the muzzle velocity is quite slow compared to a typical rifle cartridge. Since the bullet it taking longer to leave the barrel, you may want to alter your handling of the ML by holding the forestock with more force to prevent muzzle jump? I know this helped me when I was having a tough time zeroing my slug gun's scope. Once I started using a push-pull hold on it, groups were much tighter/uniform.
One thing to keep in mind when benching a ML, or a slug out of a shotgun, is that the muzzle velocity is quite slow compared to a typical rifle cartridge. Since the bullet it taking longer to leave the barrel, you may want to alter your handling of the ML by holding the forestock with more force to prevent muzzle jump? I know this helped me when I was having a tough time zeroing my slug gun's scope. Once I started using a push-pull hold on it, groups were much tighter/uniform.
Maybe I didn't have a firm enough hold on it. It is very possible sense I was using the sled I knew it wasn't going to kick very hard so I wasn't holding it as I would if I was shooing off hand. That's a good suggestion... I feel dumb for not thinking of that. I will try again tomorrow. I took the breach plug out multiple times over the course of the 2 outings.
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
I am surprised that you are using a maxi ball. Most people I know are using a saboted bullet with excellent results. I have shot maxi balls out of my percussion side lock and I found that adding a bore button (round felt wad) between the powder charge and maxi-ball significantly improved the accuracy of the maxi-ball. The bore button helped seal the gases behind the maxi-ball improving the accuracy. It might help in your case as well.
Just a thought,
Bob
Just a thought,
Bob
Thanks Bob maybe I will try that too. I ran to Bass-Pro and bought a box of TC sabots. I use the maxi-balls because it is what according to the manufacturer works best in the gun, at least when I bought it 5 or so years ago and because I hate how hard it is to load most sabots. I know the tightness gives you a good seal but after the first shot it is just about impossible to get the next round seated all the way. Short of pounding on the ram rod with a hammer lol. That and plenty of deer have bean killed using round balls and maxi-balls/ hunters before they came out with sabots. They do go down the barrel easy though... maybe too easy.
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
There is now a greater variety of sabot sizes available so you might find a better second shot fit with a slightly smaller sabot.
I am still shooting PRB's and they will do the job all day long. If the maxis go down that easy you may very well be having a gas blow by issue which will destroy your accuracy. I am sure that a bore button will help your accuracy if they seem loose to you. Instead of making a trip to the store take a patch or two for a PRB and fold it up and push it down the barrel. That will tell you if a bore button will help with your accuracy.
The other concern would be the maxi-ball moving off of the powder charge as you are going through the woods hunting. That could be really bad and result in a bulged barrel, or worse.
When I put a maxi-ball in my barrel it is the last band that is a pretty snug fit to the rifling and it is snug enough that I do not worry about the maxi moving off the powder charge. One other thing to consider with a maxi is that you should push it down the barrel slowly as once the last band engages the rifling you want the maxi to spin with the rifling and if you push it down too fast it is possible to "strip" it out of the rifling.
If you think that the fit is too loose you can put another bore button over the maxi as well to ensure that it does not slip off of the powder charge. I never felt the need to do that.
I spent a lot of time working up a load for my side lock varying the powder charge in 5 grain increments and the patch thickness to find a load that will shoot clover leafs at 50 yards. In my case the same powder charge will shoot the maxi's just as well as the PRB's as long as I use a bore button between the powder and the maxi. The maxi's just group about an inch lower as they are much heavier than a PRB.
Bob
edin508
NES Member
+1, 245g with 2-777 pellets.
Bullet not seated tight to the powder will give you lousy accuracy. Like WPDC13 said try powerbelts, very accurate but they disintegrate in a deer because of lack of bonding.
I used the power belts till I shot 1 deer when I saw how much they disintegrate I stopped using them. They just break up far too much for my liking. Hopefully I get home early enough to play with it today and try a few options.
I've found that when using the Shockwave sabots & 777 pellets, it's pretty much impossible to fully seat another load for a follow-up shot w/o first running a wet patch. I keep a Powerbelt at the ready if I need a quick reload. Those things seem to seat okay for a second shot.
I had the same problem, same gun. after alot of fustration i fixed it. First of all clean the shit out of it with warm soapy water, and also i used hopps #9, nothing else. took me 2hrs to get compleatly clean (when you think its clean, its not). Do not use the TC cleaning products that screwed mine up from the gekco. After its compleatly clean let dry and run a patch down with gun oil, i used hopps. here is a list i follow every time i shoot or go out to hunt.
1. Clean out the oil from the barrel(do a good job)
2. fire one or two primers to season the bore.
3. fire away,
before i hunt i like to shoot a round off to further season the bore. the gun shoots better after the first shot. I clean it at the range every 3 shots with a mixture of car windshield fluid and 90% rubbing alcolol(it drys faster)
And finally the powder and round my omega shoots and likes is harvester sabots, they load with ease,(wich may fix your hard to load problem) harvester 300grain scorpion round and 2 777 50gr pellets. After all that get that thing re-bore sighted makes it so much easier to zero. mine shoots 2 in groups off a crapy bench gun rest at 115 yards. yours should perform the same after this procedure. also the jag i use to seat the round spins so if contoures to the rifling of the bore.
Hope this helps, PM me if you need more help.
super rotating jag, http://muzzleloadingbullets.com/muzzleloader_super_jag.html#rat
1. Clean out the oil from the barrel(do a good job)
2. fire one or two primers to season the bore.
3. fire away,
before i hunt i like to shoot a round off to further season the bore. the gun shoots better after the first shot. I clean it at the range every 3 shots with a mixture of car windshield fluid and 90% rubbing alcolol(it drys faster)
And finally the powder and round my omega shoots and likes is harvester sabots, they load with ease,(wich may fix your hard to load problem) harvester 300grain scorpion round and 2 777 50gr pellets. After all that get that thing re-bore sighted makes it so much easier to zero. mine shoots 2 in groups off a crapy bench gun rest at 115 yards. yours should perform the same after this procedure. also the jag i use to seat the round spins so if contoures to the rifling of the bore.
Hope this helps, PM me if you need more help.
super rotating jag, http://muzzleloadingbullets.com/muzzleloader_super_jag.html#rat
I switched from the T/C superglide shockwaves,in .50cal
to the Hornady SST's .50cal sabot 45cal bullet...
I too was having trouble loading a second round with the t/c's nearly impossible!
the SST's on the other hand are a hunters dream to load,and deadly accurate, grouping 1 1/2" @ 150yds and out to 200! 100yd shots aren't a challenge
I easily loaded the T/C ProHunter after 3 shots,needless to say Im sold on them!
Joe
to the Hornady SST's .50cal sabot 45cal bullet...
I too was having trouble loading a second round with the t/c's nearly impossible!
the SST's on the other hand are a hunters dream to load,and deadly accurate, grouping 1 1/2" @ 150yds and out to 200! 100yd shots aren't a challenge
I easily loaded the T/C ProHunter after 3 shots,needless to say Im sold on them!
Joe
I have an Omega as well and I am a firm believer in Bore Butter. Remove the breach plug and swab the barrel from the muzzle down to the end of the barrel with Thompson center #13 liquid on a 50 cal patch, I am using a jag not a patch loop, scrapes the unburnt and burnt powder much better. Run about 5 wet patches then maybe two dry patches to pick up the excess crap, then 3 or 4 patches with bore butter smeared on them, you really cant ever use to much of this stuff, its great. Once you get a clean patch back then run one more patch with bore butter and you will notice a big difference in seating your sabots. They will load ...well like Butter. I run HODGDON Triple Seven pellets, I only use two or 100gr. of powder, for Sabots I only use Hornady SST 50 cal 300 gr. Flat shooting and hits like a freight train.
You will want to mark your ram rod once you have the bullet seated all the way so you know each time when you are right on top of the powder charge. I get about 12 rounds down range then I swab the barrel due to powder build up.
You probably know this info already but if not hope it helps.
Good luck.
You will want to mark your ram rod once you have the bullet seated all the way so you know each time when you are right on top of the powder charge. I get about 12 rounds down range then I swab the barrel due to powder build up.
You probably know this info already but if not hope it helps.
Good luck.
Last edited:
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
Brian,
Are you making any progress??
Bob
Are you making any progress??
Bob
Hi Bob, I haven't had a chance to try it. I had orders to finish chair rail, base board, and paint my dining room before Christmas eve which I did this afternoon so I am going to shoot first thing in the AM then hopefully sit the rest of the day in my climber.
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
Good luck. I have similar "requests" and will not be out again until next week.
Bob
Bob
power belt
using the 245 with 100 grains of tipple 7 is to much power that y they flatten out try 80grain or go with a 270gr platinum with 2 50grain pellets.
i found the same thing till i switched to the 270 platinum much better, shoots about the same as the 245 but it a harder bullet
using the 245 with 100 grains of tipple 7 is to much power that y they flatten out try 80grain or go with a 270gr platinum with 2 50grain pellets.
i found the same thing till i switched to the 270 platinum much better, shoots about the same as the 245 but it a harder bullet
Well I finally got a chance to shoot yesterday and got it all dialed in. It was a combination of a few different things. 1. Bad scope. 2. I guess I didn't have a firm enough grip on the fore end and 3. I switched from the maxi-balls to 250gr. TC sabots that were recommended by someone in a previous post. Just wanted to say thanks to everyone that helped and Merry Christmas. Now that the season is almost over maybe I can get out at least once.
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
Glad that you got it dialed in. Now all you have to do is go "make some meat" with it.
Good Luck,
Bob
Good Luck,
Bob
is the bullet seated every shot..i have a two marks on my rod. one for a 100g charge and one for a 150g charge..after i feel the bullet seat, i pick the rod up a few inches and drop it. you can hear the difference between a seated bullet and one that isnt..dont slam the rod to hard or you can crush the pellets
Yes they were/ are. I also have my ram rod marked, That was why I liked the maxi/balls so much. They are a lot easier to get a fast follow up shot because it can be so hard to seat the sabots all the way even after one shot. I am carrying a speed loader with a maxi-ball for those instances. Out to about 75 yards they are flying close enough to where the sabots are if I need that fast shot. Otherwise I will load another sabot, it seams most of the problem was trusting the rest too much and not holding the fore end enough when using it. Then after the barrel is dirtied a little with the initial shot the maxi- balls fly ok. They must just be a tough too loose with a clean barrel and sense I was running a patch down after every 2-3 shots I was getting really pissed off. All seams to be well now though.
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
I am glad that you were able to work everything out. A bore button will definitely tighten up the Maxi-ball groups. It sure did for me. All of my hunting weapons are sighted on a cold, clean barrel as IMO the first opportunity is normally the best opportunity.
Now i am off to see if Bambi's mom and dad have settled down enough to start coming out of their hiding spots at dusk.
Bob
HorizontalHunter
NES Member
Dupe
