"Steady Arm" Device - How Is This Legal ????

Zappa

Zappa

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I stumbled upon this while perusing GunBroker:

IMG_0387.jpg


I've never seen such a thing before, at least nothing modern (post 1934) that fits this description.
This essentially turns a revolver into a shoulder fired weapon, which would make it an SBR.
How is this legal ???
Does it require NFA registration and a tax stamp ????
 
YOU HAVE FINNALY FOUND THE SHOULDER THING THAT GOES UP!

And to your actual question I have no idea. I would assume it would make the pistol a SBR, and I’m sure if an ATF agent saw it he would think the same thing. So probably not worth the trouble, but your money and you livelihood so do as you please.
 
Neverknowsbest said:
YOU HAVE FINNALY FOUND THE SHOULDER THING THAT GOES UP!

And to your actual question I have no idea. I would assume it would make the pistol a SBR, and I’m sure if an ATF agent saw it he would think the same thing. So probably not worth the trouble, but your money and you livelihood so do as you please.
Click to expand...

I wasn't looking to buy it, it was part of a package deal with a single action revolver anyway.
I'm just curious as to the legalities of it.
 
Found a few things named "steady aim" from Freedom Arms out of WY.
Looks like it slipped through the cracks of regulation. I would not want to test that theory.

If these are the guys. Maybe a phone call is needed.
FREEDOM ARMS INC
 
Found it:
ATF Rul. 2011-4
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has received requests from individuals to classify pistols that are reconfigured into rifles, for personal use, through the addition of barrels, stocks, and other parts and then returned to a pistol configuration by removal of those components. Specifically, ATF has been asked to determine whether such a pistol, once returned to a pistol configuration from a rifle, becomes a "weapon made from a rifle" as defined under the National Firearms Act (NFA).

Some manufacturers produce firearm receivers and attachable component parts that are designed to be assembled into both rifles and pistols. The same receiver can accept an interchangeable shoulder stock or pistol grip, and a long (16 or more inches in length) or short (less than 16 inches) barrel. These components are sold individually, or as unassembled kits. Generally, the kits include a receiver, a pistol grip, a pistol barrel less than 16 inches in length, a shoulder stock, and a rifle barrel 16 inches or more in length. - 2 -

Certain parts or parts sets are also designed to allow an individual to convert a pistol into a rifle without removing a barrel or attaching a shoulder stock to the pistol. These parts consist of an outer shell with a shoulder stock into which the pistol may be inserted. When inserted, the pistol fires a projectile through a rifled extension barrel that is 16 inches or more in length, and with an overall length of 26 inches or more. Other parts sets require that certain parts of the pistol, such as the pistol barrel and the slide assembly, be removed from the pistol frame prior to attaching the parts sets. Typically, a separate barrel is sold with the parts set, which is 16 inches or greater in length. The barrel is installed along with an accompanying shoulder stock. The resulting firearm has a barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and an overall length of 26 inches or more.

The NFA, Title 26, United States Code (U.S.C.), Chapter 53, requires that persons manufacturing, importing, transferring, or possessing firearms as defined in the NFA comply with the Act’s licensing, registration, and taxation requirements. The NFA defines the term "firearm" at 26 U.S.C. 5845(a) to include "(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;" ("short-barreled rifle") and "(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length" ("weapon made from a rifle"). The term "rifle" is defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(c) and 27 CFR 479.11 as "a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge." Although not defined in the NFA, the term "pistol" is defined by the Act’s implementing regulations, 27 CFR 479.11, as "a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s)" (emphasis added).

Full text : http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf


So to me it looks like adding that makes it a rifle, so if you do not meet the minimum length requirements you have made a SBR
 
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If you take a cop sized mag lite and tuck one end in your shoulder pocket and the other Gainst the backside of your pistol you get a shoulder thing that goes up , too.

If that is an SBR , then I never tried it before , though.
 
Neverknowsbest said:
YOU HAVE FINNALY FOUND THE SHOULDER THING THAT GOES UP!

And to your actual question I have no idea. I would assume it would make the pistol a SBR, and I’m sure if an ATF agent saw it he would think the same thing. So probably not worth the trouble, but your money and you livelihood so do as you please.
Click to expand...


THIS haha
 
Zappa said:
I've never seen such a thing before, at least nothing modern (post 1934) that fits this description.
This essentially turns a revolver into a shoulder fired weapon, which would make it an SBR.
How is this legal ???
Does it require NFA registration and a tax stamp ????
Click to expand...

It doesn't look like it actually attaches to the pistol, the pistol seems to rest on it.

Small but subtle difference maybe.
 
Mr Weebles said:
It doesn't look like it actually attaches to the pistol, the pistol seems to rest on it.

Small but subtle difference maybe.
Click to expand...


Yes, it's the same as putting a pistol into a shooting rest that extends to your shoulder, since there's no physical attachment to the pistol, it's not making it a rifle.
 
Neverknowsbest said:
Answer on post #8
Click to expand...

From the highlighted part in post #8:

Certain parts or parts sets are also designed to allow an individual to convert a pistol into a rifle without removing a barrel or attaching a shoulder stock to the pistol. These parts consist of an outer shell with a shoulder stock into which the pistol may be inserted. When inserted, the pistol fires a projectile through a rifled extension barrel that is 16 inches or more in length, and with an overall length of 26 inches or more.
Click to expand...

I don't see this "rifled extension barrel that is 16 inches or more in length".
 
Zappa said:
From the highlighted part in post #8:



I don't see this "rifled extension barrel that is 16 inches or more in length".
Click to expand...

That's what I was hung up on as well. Yet the line before says this kit "Certain parts or parts sets are also designed to allow an individual to convert a pistol into a rifle" then it continues on to describe the kit pictured in the OP. I'll do some more digging.
 
Zappa said:
From the highlighted part in post #8:



I don't see this "rifled extension barrel that is 16 inches or more in length".
Click to expand...

Um a couple of paper towel roles and some duct tape and your golden, and if you want to upgrade use some small diameter pvc pipe and gorilla tape. Gtg right?
 
Zappa said:
From the highlighted part in post #8:



I don't see this "rifled extension barrel that is 16 inches or more in length".
Click to expand...

Maybe that was the NFA part and since it was missing why it was just part of a package deal. Looks very pre-retard type of thing in this country though, even if you don't use it will make a nice piece in a gun room.

Charles.
 
Mr Weebles said:
It doesn't look like it actually attaches to the pistol, the pistol seems to rest on it.

Small but subtle difference maybe.
Click to expand...

Yes, thats it. Its just a rest that the pistol sits on. There is no attachment. For it to be considered an SBR, it would have to have some type of mechanical attaching method like a slot or a bolt or screw that affixes the stock to the pistol.
This thing just sits against your shoulder and requires you to hold it there along with holding the pistol on it.

Could do the same thing with a piece of pine board for a couple of bucks.
 
Last I knew the ATF's stance on things like this basically broke down to. As long as when you drop the gun the "stock" and gun fall to the ground as separate pieces then it can not be "part of" or "attached to" the gun. Hence not illegal and not a SBR. I have seen other versions that were a stock with a long bar that bent up past 90deg. That bent part went against the back of the grip. Between your palm and the grip. So if you were to open your hand the two pieces would fall to the ground separately.
 
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wait till they tell a marine that his prostetic arm is a SBR or better yet someone designs a hand that pulls the trigger on an AR15 really fast, the BATF will tell the Marine he is a machine gun.
 
Neverknowsbest said:
That's what I was hung up on as well. Yet the line before says this kit "Certain parts or parts sets are also designed to allow an individual to convert a pistol into a rifle" then it continues on to describe the kit pictured in the OP. I'll do some more digging.
Click to expand...

I think that paragraph refers to those pistol conversion kits that have been available for the last couple years.

Here's one.
 
The stock itself is legal, the GUN is what becomes the SBR if you attach it (and the barrel is too short).

-Mike
 

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