Smith&Wesson model 639

[ateamrob]

I have been looking for a Smith and Wesson model 639 for a long time. I always thought the wood grips vs. the stainless steel was a nice combo. I have one with the adjustable ramped sights but I have yet to find one like this.... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/5150rob/pix866863031.jpg
with the non adjustable sights. Its funny how S&W has changed through the years. I was just down there at the S&W academy for a couple weeks for some Instructor recert classes back in May and they have a pretty good setup there.

neat gun.....

 

[RKG]

The Model 39, which I believe came about in about 1960 or so, was the direct parent of the Model 52 (a superb target pistol) and the Model 59 (essentially a double-stack version of the Model 39, with a couple of internal changes); the Model 59 later spawned the second, third and fourth generation S&W DA autos.

As pretty as it was, the Model 39 was a troubled design.

 

[Ray P]

The Model 39, which I believe came about in about 1960 or so, was the direct parent of the Model 52 (a superb target pistol) and the Model 59 (essentially a double-stack version of the Model 39, with a couple of internal changes); the Model 59 later spawned the second, third and fourth generation S&W DA autos.

As pretty as it was, the Model 39 was a troubled design.

How so? What was considered a design problem? Nothing mentioned in the S&W history book. All I can see there is the 639 is a true stainless, not an alloy frame with SS upper.

Imagine my surprise this year when I tried out a S&W 639 at the range. While I am a hard-core 1911 fan, I consistently scored better in the North Berwick Steel plate shoot when using the 639 over my stock sighted 45.

I now also own a S&W 639.

 

[ateamrob]

As pretty as it was, the Model 39 was a troubled design.

Well I can tell you I love mine and if I can find another one with the non adjustable sights I will buy it in a SECOND...

It may not be the most tactical pistol of todays world but mine has always fired flawlessly and I enjoy the feel of it.

I choose to carry a Glock but for collectors purposes, I love the 39 and 639 pistols....

anyone want to sell theirs???

 

[mark056]

I'm not sure if it would be accurate to characterize the Model 39 as troubled. It actually first came on the scene about 1954 as a result of S&W response to the government exploring the possiblity of replacing the M1911. The design goes back to the late 40's early 50's and for many years the M39 was a real sleeper in the S&W line-up but that started to change in the 60's. It is true that some gun writers in its heyday were not very complimentary to the pistol. True, there were problems with the extractor which brought about a change and the Model 39-2 designation. There was, I believe, too a change in the feed ramp with the 39-2 and this had to do with the Illinois State Police adopting the M39 as their service weapon circa 1967. They were the first agency to issue a DA auto loader in quantity. At the time, the ISP was using a 100 gr 9mm Winchester Power Point load (later abandoned for more efficient ammunition in the stopping department). The DA pull was stagey and heavy, but not anymore so than a P38 (it's only real competitor in the DA 9mm market at the time).

Great looks and great ergnomics made the M39 very popular with me and over the years I have owned five M39's. and currently have two in my collection, one ASNIB from 1972 and one that has been well used with the fully adjustable S&W factory sights (the so-called "lollipop sights" which were available from S&W only as an after-market item; most will recall that the M39 standard sights were adjustable for windage only) I also have a 539 with adjustable sights (the fixed sight models are harder to come by) also ANIB. The M39-2 that I use as a shooter, shoots well and I have never had any real problems with it. I'd love to have an M639 with fixed sights or adjustable sights in any condition!

Even in 2008 I wouldn't hesitate to carry one if I were going to carry a 9mm.

I will pass on a tale which I cannot confirm and asked Roy Jinks about it, and he was unfamiliar with it and there is no factory proof because of the way, he said, government contracts were written at that time: Back in the original Mercury Space Program when the astronauts did soft landings in the ocean, Soviet ships always monitored the landings and there was a great fear that they might try to capture a space capsule and perhaps and seize one of our astronauts (this may sound far fetched to some of you but it isn't any wilder than some of the contemporary scenarios I've heard since 9/11 from official sources...and this is the way we thought in the Cold War and planned for any contingency, so from my perspective, it is not implausible based on my own experiences during that time in our history). Anyway, supposedly NASA issued M39s to the astronauts for personal protection in case the Soviets got to the capsule first. If that's so, the S&WM39 was the first western firearm and maybe the first firearm (I don't know if the USSR armed its cosmonauts) in space. An interesting tale, but to repeat, without verification.

Mark L.

 

[cricco]

Rob,
I have a Safariland holster that I think will fit that gun. Your welcome to it if you want it.

 

[madmarc0]

Zero Hour has a 39-2 on consignment says Almost N>I>B> on the tag for 595.00
With the box, papers etc...

 

[rscalzo]

I carried a Model 39 for a few years back in the 70's. Mine was a mid 70's model and functioned quite well. I paid about $80.00 brand new!!

 

[Ray P]

There is a new WTS posting here at NES that includes a S&W 639 You can check it here.

 

[Patriot]

As pretty as it was, the Model 39 was a troubled design.

I agree completely. I owned a 639 and it was the worst handgun I ever owned. Couldn't
run a mag through it with any ammo, without some problem occurring. I traded it in after
three months of suffering. Took a bath on that gun but I couldn't wait to get rid of it.

I purchased it in 1985 from Collector's for $219 and traded it in three months later to
Collector's for about 2/3rds of the original purchase price I hated it so much.

 

[rscalzo]

The early S&W SS firearm's had teething problems not necessarily due to the design but more due to the material being used. The early 659's had some problems that were corrected later in the model runs. Fortunately our versions were pretty much problem free. One of the way to insure problem free performance was a decent break-in. Over 1500 rounds went though new officer's firearms before they saw street use.

 

[Ray P]

I agree completely. I owned a 639 and it was the worst handgun I ever owned. ...(snip).

Using four factory mags, my 639 eats Wally World White box effortlessly. I typically shoot up 100 rds with it per week, and haven't had a glitch since I bought it in early 2007.

A little off track, but:
Pistols I own that caused me some problems were an AMT Lightning pistol w/ 8" bbl, and a Star Firestar. Both took some time to fix, including multiple trips to gunsmiths until I found one (in NH) that was competent, but both guns are working beautifully now, too.

 

[Pilgrim]

I like any SW, but any of them that have that type of trigger guard all look like someone squashed the front of the guard.

 

[Ray P]

The glitch has arrived

After stripping for a full take-down cleaning of my 639,

I found a crack and hole where I had not seen one before:

Called S&W custromer service, and they say "Ship it in."

I am real curious how they (S&W) are going to address this.

 

[jamz]

Probably they'll fix it and ship it back, no hassle.

 

[Ray P]

That would be an excellent thing. Must admit: to me this failure is interesting.

From the mechanic's perspective, I'm trying to imagine how to do a fix. A replacement slide seems out of the question. Would a gunsmith in this case grind out the hole and crack, TIG the area closed, followed by mill & file work?

And I wonder why this happened. It doesn't seem to be a typical wear failure. Was this the result of tolerance stacking? Was something cut out of spec & it slipped by QC?

I suspect it has more to do with the extractor slot cut than the interior slide groove, as only a couple of thin stamped safety levers ride in the right side (from the rear) interior groove, and the lever tops do not look excessively worn, only polished. My guess: the extractor groove was cut slightly too wide, leaving a very thin wall between the two machine cuts at the very start. The failure began when the crack started, caused by the extractor slamming home against the slot bottom when there was no rim to grab (empty mag).

 

[Ray P]

While this is at the shop. it might be time to evaluate one of them milsurp SIG 225s coming into the country. (LEOsurp juast doesn't sound right)

 

[mark056]

While this is at the shop. it might be time to evaluate one of them milsurp SIG 225s coming into the country. (LEOsurp juast doesn't sound right)

Maybe not, but police trade-in is a term that has been used in the firearms market for years.

Mark L.

 

[Ray P]

Maybe not, but police trade-in is a term that has been used in the firearms market for years.

Mark L.

Thanks, Mark. I KNEW there was a term I was forgetting!

 

[Jose]

From the mechanic's perspective, I'm trying to imagine how to do a fix. A replacement slide seems out of the question. Would a gunsmith in this case grind out the hole and crack, TIG the area closed, followed by mill & file work?

Welding the crack then dressing it down is going to wreck havoc on the slide's heat treatment.

I'm not a welding expert or a metallurgist but cannot see annealing the weld area to match the hardness and ductility of the surrounding metal as an easy thing to do.

I think you'll get a new slide. But that's my 1/2 layman, 1/2 engineer opinion.

Beautiful gun, though. The more I deal with them, the more I appreciate traditional S&W autos.

 

[matt]

Called S&W custromer service, and they say "Ship it in."

gotta love the customer service there. IMO it really adds to the long term value of S&W's.

While this is at the shop. it might be time to evaluate one of them milsurp SIG 225s coming into the country. (LEOsurp juast doesn't sound right)

Is the 225 the predesesor of the 239? They seem to be dimensionally similar, even if stylisticly a little different. The prices I've seen on them are incredible: $250!! Wish we could get them here in MA easily.

 

[Ray P]

Welding the crack then dressing it down is going to wreck havoc on the slide's heat treatment. ...(snip)...

Do you believe S&W still has old model 639 slides hanging around?

Wouldn't welding anneal (soften) the area? If so, dressing the area after welding shouldn't be too difficult. If a slide does need to be hardened, annealed, or otherwise heat-treated after a weld repair, the slide is small enough to stick in a heat-treating oven. (IANA Weld Engr or Metalurgist, either.)

Beautiful gun, though. The more I deal with them, the more I appreciate traditional S&W autos.

They are, and I really agree! If S&W comes back with "it isn't repairable", I may just hang it on a wall and look at it (art).

 

[Ray P]

gotta love the customer service there. IMO it really adds to the long term value of S&W's.

This will be my first interaction with them. I'm very curious to see how it goes. I have had a very good experience in the past with AMT's customer service.

Is the 225 the predesesor of the 239? They seem to be dimensionally similar, even if stylisticly a little different. The prices I've seen on them are incredible: $250!! Wish we could get them here in MA easily.

Don't know the development history of Sigs. Is there a book out there on the subject, like there are for Colts and S&Ws? There is one 225 already in town, and I hope to try it out before I send away for one.

 

[depicts]

Don't let Marco at ZHA know this, but I'm going to take a magnet over to his shop and see if the gun he has on consignment is alloy or steel.

They made a few steel ones, and from what I hear they are a really nice gun. Not that the 39 itself isn't a good gun.

Marco had two others in his shop awhile back, and both were gone before I got up the money.

 

[Ray P]

???

Weren't all 639s made with S.S. frames? I thought it was the later -2 and subsequent four-digit pistols that were made with alloy frames.

 

[mark056]

Is the 225 the predesesor of the 239? They seem to be dimensionally similar, even if stylisticly a little different. The prices I've seen on them are incredible: $250!! Wish we could get them here in MA easily.

The Sig 225 is the original Sig-Sauer double action 9mm semi-auto. Back in the 1970's the German Police decided they were going to upgrade their traditional pocket automatics like the PP and PPK in 7.65 (32 ACP) and 9mm Kurz (380 ACP) to a real manstopping caliber: the 9mm Parabellum. All of the major German manufacturers submitted their designs for test and evaluation, and the Sig-Sauer (Sauer being the German "half" of Sig-Sauer) P225 was the Sig-Sauer entry into that arena. Essentially, from what I understand, each police agency in what was then the Bundesrepublik (West Germany) could work from a list of approved models to equip their force.

So, in effect the P225 begat the P226 for the US Army Pistol Trials, and the P226 begat the P228 (which became the US Army's M11 later on) and the P228 begat the P229 which was the first handgun designed around the .40 S&W and marked a change in materials, fabrication and assembly location for some Sig pistols (the S&W 4006 being based on the existing 5906 was the first 40S&W pistol but is was adapted), the P229 begat the P239 which was an even more compact version of the P229 being smaller and single stacked like the P225.

As a point of trivia: the P225 was issued in limited quantites to selected members of the Massachusetts State Police. These guns were withdrawn from service when that agency upgraded to the .40 S&W round in 1998-99.

Mark L.

 

[Ray P]

Wow. In less than three weeks, I've heard back from S&W. That isn't a crack in the picture. Just "two milling areas meet."

Must not be a safety issue, as their letter does not have the "Safety Requirement" block checked off. They are willing to send it back to me "as-is" with no constraints.

Or, for a fee, they will do some cleaning and a "tune & test". Since it is already there, I'll take them up on the tune & test.

 

[mark056]

Or, for a fee, they will do some cleaning and a "tune & test". Since it is already there, I'll take them up on the tune & test.

In days of yore when Springfield was a great American City with great American workers and guns were made of blue steel with finishes you could see yourself in, as in a mirror...the Powerful and Mighty Smith and Wesson "tuned and tested" every gun that came back to the factory and DIDN'T charge for it...it was called customer service.

I am glad, however that your experience with S&W has been positive to date. They have been working with metal and firearms since 1852, so they have learned how to do a few things

Mark L.