Sig220

MassMark

MassMark

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Well, it looks as if my quest for a .45 - namely the M&P45 is gone for now....(insert appropriate expletives here). The search must now continue for a "compliant" .45ACP and my thoughts are turning toward the SiG-220. I have exactly zero experience with this gun and was looking for SiG aficionados to show me the way...

Before anyone chimes in with "buy a 1911", please save your breath, (fingers). I have had several 1911's, (carried 1911's for nearly 20-years) and liked them all - truly, but loved none. I felt the same way about my Glock22 and sold it for a reason, so a Glock21 is out of the question.

I'm open to other ideas as well, but have been head-scratching about a SiG....Anyone?
 
I have had a 220C for over a year. It has been virtually flawless. Never a malfunction and that's using 90 percent reloaded ammo. You only decision will be a TDA, DAO or the DAK trigger system. I have a DAK trigger and it took some time to get used to the feel. You're more than welcomed to try it out if you're ever up this way...
 
rscalzo said:
I have had a 220C for over a year. It has been virtually flawless. Never a malfunction and that's using 90 percent reloaded ammo. You only decision will be a TDA, DAO or the DAK trigger system. I have a DAK trigger and it took some time to get used to the feel. You're more than welcomed to try it out if you're ever up this way...
Click to expand...

He can't get a DAK trigger unless someone is willing to part with one FTF. [thinking]

I've shot a 220 before and it's a nice gun. They're a touch pricey, but if I had the cash, I would get one.
 
Hi Mark,

I owned a Sig 220 ST for a few years. I really wanted to like this gun and I guess in a certain way I did. It never had a problem and it went bang every time I pulled the trigger no matter what type of ammo I was using. After a bit it ended up being a safe queen and was used as trade fodder for a Springfield Armory Loaded 1911 Champion. The 220 ST IMHO was just too thick and it was heavy. I guess some people probably carry it, but I would never use it for CCW. It also had the standard Sig long trigger pull, which I've never liked.

It may be for you. It just wasn't for me.
 
I own a Sig 245 stainless my wife bought me for my birthday and I have absolutely no complaints. It carries well and shoots great. I currently own 7 Glocks and one that I got rid of was a G22 with no desire to replace it. I don't have a G21, but I do like my G20C when it comes to full size.
 
I've owned 3 of them and currently have a two tone full size 220. Of all the Sig's out there, these are by far the pickiest model in their line that I've had which is 12 in all (P220's, 226's, 228's and 229's). You need to go to the range with someone like me that will bring along a P220, and any other of their models to show you why. What happens in the case of the P220 versus all their other models is the bore center axis of the chamber and that of the top round in the magazine is far from equal in line up. Take a Makarov for instance and notice how they are very well lined up compared to many other autoloaders. Well the P220 does not line up any where as well. So, being the .45acp is a very squat cartridge compared to the others, there is a "step up" phenomenon that occurs during feeding in the P220 that does not occur as much in the other models. There is some considerable discussion to this somewhere on the Sigforum.com.

The next problem I've encountered with P220's is that the newer models come with a "green coloured" recoil spring which seems to be rated at 22lbs. You could land the space shuttle on it and not compress it is how it was described to me and no doubt it's extremely powerful. You need to use for the most part full powered loads and keep this in mind if you hand load. A lot of my gentle handloads I use on plates out of my S&W1911Sc will not work the action of my P220, nor others we tried. A 4" barrel vs a 5" compounds this.

Finally, use only Sig factory magazines, Mec Gar or something that has a very powerful factory rated spring. The velocity action of the slide is quite fast and the overtravel is not all that great so the magazine spring must shove the soon to be fired round up into the feed lip area faster than immediately.

This is a no BS assessment based upon many many thousands of rounds fired out of various P220's and many many tens of thousands of rounds fired out of P226's, 228's and 229's.

If you want to come and see, bring loads of ammo to The Harvard Sportsmen's Club some weekend day and I'll show the whole shebang to you.
 
Rockrivr1 said:
Hi Mark,

I owned a Sig 220 ST for a few years. I really wanted to like this gun and I guess in a certain way I did. It never had a problem and it went bang every time I pulled the trigger no matter what type of ammo I was using. After a bit it ended up being a safe queen and was used as trade fodder for a Springfield Armory Loaded 1911 Champion. The 220 ST IMHO was just too thick and it was heavy. I guess some people probably carry it, but I would never use it for CCW. It also had the standard Sig long trigger pull, which I've never liked.

It may be for you. It just wasn't for me.
Click to expand...

Yeah... I know where that one went! [wink]

It's a great gun- damn accurate in SA (an DA if you work at it). But yeah the long Sig DA pulls are tough. Strangley enough for a single stack gun it is chunky. I added some stock Hogue grips that were stippled by Hogue (SP?) and it helps a ton. The Hogue rubber grips were too fat.
I like the weight of the full ST.
 
bodybagsryan said:
If you want to come and see, bring loads of ammo to The Harvard Sportsmen's Club some weekend day and I'll show the whole shebang to you.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the invite and the assessment - much appreciated! I really need to make a plan to get out that way for a day of shooting at Harvard. Would be excellent to give one of these a whirl before I take the leap. Thanks as well to everyone else - your experiences are a useful tool in my search for a tactical 45ACP. I'll likely not be carrying this CCW - I'm sold on the 642CT for that purpose. This will likely be a companion to my SOCOM-16/Troy MCS for carbine/pistol classes and for any possible SHTF fun and games....I need reliable and am unconcerned with weight. I have been kicking around an HK-USP as well.... Decisions, decisions...
 
Welllllllllllllll, while we are on the subject, over the years I owned 5 HK .45's and I don't remember how many .40's but in any event, the .45's were three full size with night sights and a pair of compacts also with N/S. Never never never did I have a jam, hiccup, problem of any sort with these .45's. They would take all sorts of hand loads, factory ammo, etc. It did not matter if they were dainty plate loads designed for speed or full powered +P duty ammo. Phenomenal reliability in a .45. Set the standard for us. If you have any idea of leaning toward HK, forget the price and buy one of them. Big by comparison but that's no consideration when you are on the threshold of imminent mortality. I like the compact over the full size, even though it holds a few rounds less.
In the HK line the only model USP that we had problems with was the full size .40. The plastic magazines were sensitive to extreme heat while on trial. The feed lips would expand under the stress of a full load of ammo in it during the very hot summer and once in a while we'd have a round pop up, not into the chamber, during firing. Quite a sight to see. Almost resembles a circus act. Could not do it even if I tried. Anyway, on the other hand, the compact .40 had steel magazines and like it's .45 USP cousins, gobbled up everything.

Someone needs to bring a 9mm compact to Harvard with a ton of magazines and ammo for me to audition.

In any event, try my Sig first but in no shape form and matter can we find anything wrong with the HK USP's except for their size which really does not bother me as stated above but did to some folks who leaned towards street carry.

Let me know when you want to stop by.
Glad to be of some help.
 
I have to agree that if you're considering the P220, you should also consider the USP in 45. I have both, and while I really like the SIG, I love the USP. I think that you get the same level of performance/reliability, in either gun, but the HK gives you the ability to carry four more rounds (USP 12+1 vs. 220 8+1). And it does this with basically the same overall dimensions and weight (shown below from each manufacturer's website. Please note that the weights compare one with a mag and one without, but if you add a mag to the HK weight, it will be very close (at least empty).

SIG P220:

Overall Length: 7.8"
Width: 1.4"
Height: 5.5"
Weight w/empty Mag: 1.95 LBS
Magazine Capacity: 8 Rounds

HK USP 45 (Full Size)

Overall Length: 7.87"
Width: 1.26"
Height: 5.55"
Weight without/Mag: 1.74 lbs
Magazine Capacity: 12 Rounds (where permitted)

Some will say the grip on a USP feels like a 2X4. I don't share that opinion. I like the way all of my USP's feel in my hand. I don't have really large hands either.

Good Luck on your search,

Chris
 
I'd also agree on you trying an HK in 45. I have a USPc 45 and I liked it much more then the 220. The grip doesn't feel like a 2x4 at all to me. I enjoy shooting it more then the Sig.
 
I have a Sig P220. Well to be accurate, I have half of a Sig P220. The bottom half. The upper has been at Sig for some six months for night sights and a re-finish (that's another story).

A previous Sig P220 made me lukewarm to them, at least for me. It shot very well but did not feel all that comfortable in my hand with the stock grips. A lot of people I know who have them raved about the Hogue grips, but I had an opportunity to trade and did so. Then last year I saw this one (with the Hogues) on my dealer's wall, tried it and liked it a lot. And I look forward to shooting it if the slide ever makes it back from New Hampshire.

My dealer also has an H&K .45ACP Compact. I have handled it and it feels very good in the hand. I haven't been able to meet him at the range to try it, but he swears by it now.

Both seem to be good choices.
 
MassMark & others: Would you all be willing to meet at The Harvard Sportsmen's Club one weekend day soon, bring all our wares including tons of ammo and have a shoot with the Sig's and HK's? This is turning into an outstanding discussion for Mark's & other's benefit but a shoot would really give him a near perfect experience to supplement it. I'm available the 29 & 30 at 1:00 at HSC.
 
bodybagsryan said:
MassMark & others: Would you all be willing to meet at The Harvard Sportsmen's Club one weekend day soon, bring all our wares including tons of ammo and have a shoot with the Sig's and HK's? This is turning into an outstanding discussion for Mark's & other's benefit but a shoot would really give him a near perfect experience to supplement it. I'm available the 29 & 30 at 1:00 at HSC.
Click to expand...

BBRyan will bring all the ammo for everyone to shoot,you guys just have to bring the guns.
 
BBRyan is a good guy, he fixed my AK that Greg messed up.[wink]

I have not made it out to Harvard even though I have been invited multiple times. But seeing as I am kind of in the same situation as MassMark I would be interested as well if you guys wanted to put something together and let me shoot your guns.
 
Mikey said:
BBRyan is a good guy, he fixed my AK that Greg messed up.[wink]

I have not made it out to Harvard even though I have been invited multiple times. But seeing as I am kind of in the same situation as MassMark I would be interested as well if you guys wanted to put something together and let me shoot your guns.
Click to expand...

Excellent, most Excellent. Looks like Greg's providing the ammo so after he'd done buying Dick's out of .45, he'll be in touch. Hay, I'll bring my MAC 10 in .45 so we can really burn off some of Greg's ammo!
 
Mikey said:
BBRyan is a good guy, he fixed my AK that Greg messed up.[wink]
Click to expand...

f***er..[smile]..It was wicked clean though,right???

bodybagsryan said:
Excellent, most Excellent. Looks like Greg's providing the ammo so after he'd done buying Dick's out of .45, he'll be in touch. Hay, I'll bring my MAC 10 in .45 so we can really burn off some of Greg's ammo!
Click to expand...

You just told me yesterday that you gave away 8K rounds of surplus .308 and you have excess inventory of ALL pistol calibers that you would sell for 50% off of Dicks price to just get rid of them..

Don't puss out now ol' buddy ol' pal of mine.

In all seriousness(which is a rairty for me as everyone who knows me can attest to) MassMark and AKMikey should make a pilgrimage to Harvard for a shoot with lots of cool weapons.

Maybe BBQ or something as well.
 
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Big Daddy 45acp said:
I have a Sig 220ST. Heavy, but a sweet shooter!
Click to expand...

Talk of a 220 being a heavy clunker....
Sig Sauer 220 Sport 1st series, my most favoured .45 target gun:
220SportRjpg.jpg

220SportL.jpg
 
I'm in! Ammo sounds too good to pass up! I'll take 2k 7.62x51... [smile]

I like it and need to get out for a while. Next weekend is doable - what's a good time? Would love to wring out a .45 HK - sounds like something I need to seriously look into. After selling the Glock in anticipation of the M&P, I'm left with a gap in my full-sized pistol lineup that needs to be filled with a .45 [wink]
 
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OK, sounds good. I'll bring my P220 two tone on both days. Just remind me Friday. It's tax season in final mode so I'm loaded with work and running around like crazy. Either day is good for me. I'm sure Greg will run right down to Zero Hour and pick up a HK for you to try out, at his expense of course.
Kidding aside, can anyone bring a HK for Mark to try out?
 
I had a Sig 220 Carry Elite. I now have a HK45 Compact. The HK feels better in my hand. The Sig was nice, but I shoot the HK better.
 
Love my P220. I put some TruGlo TFO nightsights on it and a Harrts Recoil rod (before the went out of buisness). Just wish I got one with a light rail.

Great gun, very reliable for me. It's the .45 round I'm shying away from, got the fever for the .357 Sig!

ei589i.jpg


16lbqs1.jpg


opctas.jpg
 
Mark,

If you don't make it out to Harvard this weekend and want to try a P220 let me know. I'll be at LSA on Sat. morning and into the afternoon for a work party for the new
outside pistol range. I'll bring my P220 with me and if you stop in you can take for a
whirl.
 
Neptune Cat said:
Mark,

If you don't make it out to Harvard this weekend and want to try a P220 let me know. I'll be at LSA on Sat. morning and into the afternoon for a work party for the new
outside pistol range. I'll bring my P220 with me and if you stop in you can take for a
whirl.
Click to expand...

Is that this weekend? Man, I need to get back on the E-mail list...Not sure why I'm off, (paid up).....Dropped Pete a line and I may try and get out there Saturday. Thanks!
 
Mark-

I suggest an old school german/w. german P220 without any hesitation whatsoever. These guns are built like brick outhouses and are absolute tack drivers. I only favor the old ones because they seem to have much nicer single action triggers. Maybe its the way the sear was machined or whatever, I don't know. The newer guns seem to vary a bit here and there... if you buy a newer one try to check out the trigger in person. The DA will be heavier in the old ones but you can swap out the mainspring with a replacement from Wolff if you want to smoothen it up. If you elect not to with enough dry firing the mainspring will break in a little bit and lighten up. (FWIW, if a stock P220 doesn't light off a round, it's not from lack of mainspring power, thats for sure.... )

If you decide to buy a newer one, get rid of the "soap bar" grips and get a set of the "modified by hogue" factory grips that have better checkering on them. I ended up putting some hogue checkered rosewoods on mine but the plastic ones with the checkering will work just as well.

FWIW there is no .45 ACP handgun in my collection that I would trust as much as my P220, save for maybe my HK MK23, but that obviously isn't very carryable. [laugh] And I say this as being a guy who owns 4 1911s, and used to carry one frequently. There's nothing wrong with them, and someday I might go back... but its a matter of finding or building the "one". I still shoot pins/plates with my 1911s on a regular basis, and I don't think there
is any better tool for that job.

Also, a tip... you're probably not considering it anyways, but the P220ST is way overkill- it's a nice gun but doesn't appreciably do anything that an alloy P220 does that weighs nearly half as much. (Well, save for maybe that nice Sport that Juergen posted above... I'm sure that thing is a treat... but that's not you're everyday P220-ST. )


-Mike
 
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