Sig announces details of Air Marshall guns

[weekendracer]

I love the guy saying his job is so boring that he's at a tactical disadvantage.

 

[Keystone]

I have a solution to the problem.
Simply modify the guns like thus:

This will throw off potential attackers and save countless lives.

 

[vellnueve]

It helps the would-be terrorist because they know the gun won't explode when fired (Glock) and that they can't pull the slide off the front of the gun (Beretta).

 

[M1911]

I can see how my statement could cause confusion, sorry.

I used “could” to imply its possible there is a benefit to the bad guy knowing which firearm the FAM is using, rather than using the word “would” and implying that there was definitely a benefit. I don’t know if any benefit exists and didn’t want to take sides.

Fair enough.

 

[GSG]

Much ado about nothing. Sig announced that they got a contract to supply Sig P250s in .357SIG to DHS for the air marshals. Then some air marshals claim that this is sensitive information that would give hijackers a better chance of success.

Well after the FAM personnel records (including pictures, home address, family info ) were breached a few years ago, and then subsequent public revelations made about SOP's and tactics that allow them to be identified with greater ease, it's understandable that they're a little sensitive about sharing information about themselves.

How the hell would the knowledge of what they are carrying be of any use?

Well it'd be easy to tell the maximum number of rounds that an FAM carries while working, for one.

The way to combat a sleeper is to use good tactics and to not have both air marshalls sitting in first class.

You're assuming that the only thing an FAM might confront is a "sleeper."

Humph! Yeah, I'm sure. When I was a mechanic in the Air Force, I was being transferred on a MATS plane, At 20,000 feet, one of the windows shattered. The guy sitting next to it was about 170 pounds. He went through that little space like a hunk of hamburger going down a disposal, and right after him coats, pillows, blankets, cups, saucers. Yeah, I'm sure!

Are you being sarcastic here? I really can't tell.

Correct. They get on the plane ahead of time, they don't drink and they are always at the front of the plane. You fly enough it is painfully obvious really.

Last time I flew I sat beside an FAM at the very rear of the airplane...just saying.

 

[TomH]

I'm no expert, but I always figured on any gun the trigger is the part that makes it go "bang". What tactical training could a terrorist do that would give an advantage? Are they going to learn how to remove the slide in .5 seconds like in kung fu movies?

 

[MasterShinken]

IMO knowing that they are carrying a pistol (in general) is good intel for an attacker, the type doesn't realy matter all that much unless it's a wildly odd style of firearm (which they wouldn't do as that would go against training already paid for). And going into any operation you always plan for your intel to be shit poor, cause it usualy is. research, plan, execute, adapt. true in any operation, be it good guys or bad guys.

 

[ochmude]

Listen, the fact that it was made public that FAMs will be carrying 250s is absolutely a non-issue. Any would be terrorist/hijacker can already learn all they need to learn about aircraft security by going straight to the training manual currently in use.

 

[LoginName]

The most disturbing part of the article...

president of the National Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association, which represents officers from more than 65 federal agencies,...

Do we really need 65 federal agencies to watch over us?

 

[TomH]

The most disturbing part of the article...



Do we really need 65 federal agencies to watch over us?

That IS disturbing. [sad2]

 

[GSG]

the training manual

 

[law dawg]

It's no great advantage for terrorists to have, knowing the make and model of the firearm (number of rounds, practice disarms with that exact gun to better get the feel of the thing, practice clearing and press checks, etc). The advantage is nominal, but most professionals like to train with tools that most closely resemble what they'll be using. This is why our red guns weigh the same as the real thing. Any advantage gained is a nominal advantage, though. All that said, it's of absolutely no advantage to give out that information except for Sig Sauer being able to brag and therefore try to increase sales.

The small training advantage terrorists could get is therefore gained with no advantage on the side of the FAMS. It makes little tactical sense to divulge this information, especially in light of TSA's current blunders.

Additionally, you have to understand where Terreri and McLean are coming from. Frank was one of the outspoken FAMs who rebelled against the first FAMS Director and his inane policies of preboarding, dress codes, grooming standards and giving out FAM tactics to the media. Being outspoken got him investigated, suspended (they showed up at his house during dinner to relieve him of his weapon and badge rather than call him into the office, which was well enjoyed by his wife and children). McLean was fired for divulging, after being rebuffed by management, the FAMS plan to eliminate long distance flight coverage.

If a FAM had divulged that same information that the FAMS and Sig put out it would have meant their job. They'd call it SSI. But Sig can put it out for a few bucks. It's not so much the comparatively small advantage any terrorist could gain that's got most FAMs in a twist, but it's the hypocrisy of the TSA and the FAMS who divulge information willy-nilly that puts FAMs at risk (including seating, boarding, who they deal with airport security, tactics on the plane, etc.) and then persecute FAMs who divulge policies that put the flying public at risk, after they're rebuffed by management.