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SJan

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I see you frequently use a steel target.

A hit is confirmed nearly instantly with a ring. Ive seen it in several of your videos where the various shooters do not hear the ring because of a miss, pause, then connect on a make up shot before moving on with the drill.

How do you feel this effects your training goals?
 

xtry51

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I see you frequently use a steel target.

A hit is confirmed nearly instantly with a ring. Ive seen it in several of your videos where the various shooters do not hear the ring because of a miss, pause, then connect on a make up shot before moving on with the drill.

How do you feel this effects your training goals?

I agree you gotta split the time to make sure you're using paper and training yourself to call shots more than depending on the feedback from the target. Just from a confidence standpoint alone. I try to train more on paper than on steel. I found the more I used steel, the more my grouping exercises went to shit.

That said I do think there is a significantly important factor to be gained from waiting to see/hear feedback from a hit, since in real life feedback (threat going down) is what you really want to be basing your next decision on. Placing good hits on a live target may not actually stop them, so visualizing a hit create a physical change (plate shaking) is a valuable tool to some degree I think.
 

bigblue

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The other detraction from steel that affects grouping is not being able to see where you missed. I agree that mixing steel and paper combines the audible feedback with hits on paper. I haven't found the perfect training tools yet but that's why we practice right?
 

Picton

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One of my NCOs would fill a water balloon with red food coloring and tape it to the back of cardboard or plastic silhouettes at the head or chest areas. When you scored a hit there, it looked like Saving Private Ryan. Cheap and effective feedback.
 

xtry51

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The other detraction from steel that affects grouping is not being able to see where you missed. I agree that mixing steel and paper combines the audible feedback with hits on paper. I haven't found the perfect training tools yet but that's why we practice right?

Ideally, you're at a point that you're calling those misses. Meaning the moment you pull the trigger (not to be confused with the moment you decided to pull it) you take a mental snapshot of where the sights are. With a pistol this means while focusing on the front sight post you are able to mentally record its position relative to the rear and the target without a focal shift.
 

bigblue

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I suppose that depends on the speed of training. My memory isn't that good and my aim at speed isn't always good enough to know if I jerked the trigger, flinched, or simply didn't get the bead I thought I did.

That's why we train right? To attain the ability to do that?

If you haven't checked them out yet, the Keanu Reeves videos of him training for the next John Wick flick are sick.

https://instagram.com/p/BCg6dnkg0jd/

https://instagram.com/p/BCrTekAA0oA/
 

xtry51

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The ability to call your shots tells you if you jerked the trigger or flinched.

Seeing those sights clearly and capturing there exact position to each other and the target all at once should be your primary goal if you can't do it yet. Once you can, all of your shooting will get better exponentially.

If you can't snapshot the sights, you can't know what you did wrong. If you don't know what you did wrong, you can't fix it.
 

AllaSnackbah

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I see you frequently use a steel target.

A hit is confirmed nearly instantly with a ring. Ive seen it in several of your videos where the various shooters do not hear the ring because of a miss, pause, then connect on a make up shot before moving on with the drill.

How do you feel this effects your training goals?

We do use steel pretty frequently for a multitude of reasons, its cheaper, my targets are either mobile, or permanent, and they all stay on the range so i dont have to bring them out every time i shoot. I actually think though, that i personally probably put more rounds through cardboard than I do on steel. I am a big fan of cardboard IDPA targets and B8 bullseye targets. My videos are predominantly featuring steel because it provides indication of a hit to me, and the critical viewer, when watching the video. So i tend to use steel more when i am doing quick paced drills on video so i dont have to show the picture ofd the target afterwards to show that i "dont suck", which is debatable with or without instant steel feedback lol. Far too many guys out there videoing themselves doing all kinds of tacticool stuff shooting paper, but they never show the target.

I won't debate the training scars created by shooting steel all the time, but i also won't say shooting steel doesn't have any merit. Follow through is an important fundamental of shooting, and i catch myself frequently allowing that "ding" to instantly shift my brain to the next task at hand. Bad habit. I personally wish I could shoot more targets like these guys i made to simulate a target that could take multiple rounds to take down, but they are a pain in the ass to set up haha.





Such is the scar of all non force on force training really. Does walking through an IPSC/IDPA course 5 times dry pointing your finger at the targets like kids playing cops, memorizing every step you'll take, where you'll reload, what cover you'll utilize, etc like I've seen many guys do at competitive shoots create training scars?

Does hiding behind plywood, plastic barrels, and plastic netting pretending its going to stop bullets create training scars?

Does keeping your pistol pointed at the berm 100% of the time while you're moving create training scars?

Does even keeping your muzzle pointed at the ground at all times create training scars?

yes unfortunately they all do, just as much as shooting "instant gratification" targets like steel. Such is the world we are stuck in as "hobbyist gunfighters" haha, i wish there were more economical ways to train force on force with sim/UTM rounds.

Thanks for pointing it out, like i said its something I'm aware we're doing occasionally, i just havent found any good alternative options that are quick and easy to set up yet, that also give feedback to the shooter/video viewer.
 
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AllaSnackbah

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absolutely. i know what you were getting at and its a great topic we should discuss. i want some of those robotic target stands the military gets to use haha

LOL'd at the video
 

bigblue

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If anyone has seen the Mako RTC target stands, a friend has a bunch for sale. Basically brand new discounted to sell. Drop me a pm (I'm not trying to sell them for him but thought they would interest this group based on the current topic).
 
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That said I do think there is a significantly important factor to be gained from waiting to see/hear feedback from a hit, since in real life feedback (threat going down) is what you really want to be basing your next decision on. Placing good hits on a live target may not actually stop them, so visualizing a hit create a physical change (plate shaking) is a valuable tool to some degree I think.

I can see how shoot and assess is valuable in real life. But if you are engaging multiple equal threats, are you training yourself to see a reaction on one threat before engaging the next? I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here, just an interesting discussion.

You are dead on about having to be able to call your shots to be able to shoot well at speed. One of the interesting phenomenons as you progress is when it becomes subconscious, you will instinctively make up shot that were bad without thinking about the called shot. I have found my make up shot split is sometimes faster than the initial split.
 
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JCV

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How are you guys transporting your steel to and from the range? Just looking for suggestions. Don't want to tear up my interior or truck bed once they get shot up. Likely just some steel gongs....milk crates?
 

MAPMFF.

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I take a good amount of vids, but only post em on my Instagram account (Username: SOB8604) , lots of pro-gun and gun porn on there, albeit 15 seconds at a time.

Anyone else post up on the IG accounts?
 

SJan

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Me shooting the USPSA Optics Nationals this past weekend where I finished 12th place. This was a 20 stage match over 2 days of shooting. I played in the Pistol Caliber Carbine division, also at this match were the Open and Cary Optics divisions. I am shooting my 9mm AR SBR posted elsewhere on this forum.

I was not aggressive enough on some stages, shooting in a minor scoring only division I tried to pile up the A zone hits, but looking over the results I see that speed won on many stages. I learned that I can not shoot a carbine while moving quite as fast and accurately as I thought, I lost time on some stages by doing planted position shooting instead of taking a few targets while on the move. This is one of the things that I need to work on.

 
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bigblue

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Well done Sean. I've been watching MP5 videos on the USPSA pages, it looks like a blast.


ETA Heard you got beat by a girl.
 
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