Interested in opinions on these two X frames from people who have shot one or both. Curious about how the barrel lengths impact the these two versions of the 460. Is the PC version worth the extra cash? Is the V more accurate with the longer barrel? Aside from range fun, practical use would be for large wild animal protection, but not for hunting.
-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS May Giveaway ***Canik METE SFX***
S&W 460V (5" barrel) versus the PC 460XVR (3.5" barrel)
- Thread starter TLB
- Start date
dcmdon
NES Member
The thing about the 460 is its "awesomeness" comes from the amazing speed at which it can throw a fairly heavy bullet. (300 gr at 2000 fps). The problem is that when you go short, you lose all of that.
If I wanted to go as short as 3.5", I'd probably go with a .500 S&W.
Either way, I'd do my research about how much MV I would be giving up with a short barrel.
If I wanted to go as short as 3.5", I'd probably go with a .500 S&W.
Either way, I'd do my research about how much MV I would be giving up with a short barrel.
dcmdon
NES Member
Ok.
I did some quick virtual testing using my copy of quickload.
Here is the load data.
57.3 grains of Hodgedon H110
200 grain lead bullet
3.5" barrel gives 1483 fps and 977 ft-lbs of energy
5" barrel gives 1925 fps and 1646 ft-lbs of energy
8.6 barrel (standard size) gives 2411 fps and 2581 ft-lbs of energy.
You are giving up a HUGE amount of performance even by going from a 5" barrel to a 3.5" barrel. The 5" barrel generates 70% more muzzle energy than the 3.5" barrel.
With that said, I realize the 8" gun is probably too big for your needs. With that said, you may want to consider something else. A Ruger super red hawk in 454 Cassul with an 6" barrel will weigh A LOT less than a 3.5" XVR revolver and will generate much more energy than a .460 out of a 3.5" barrel.
1661 FPS and 1225 ft-lbs with the same bullet.
So in short. The 3.5" .460 is actually a pretty dumb gun, unless you like large fireballs. (Only 71% of the powder burns inside the gun with a 3.5" barrel)
You can get a lighter, more potent firearm by using something with a bit longer barrel in a smaller frame.
Don
p.s. Since only 71% burns inside the barrel, that means 29% burns outside the barrel. Which when you consider that you are working with almost 60 grains of powder, is a heck of a lot of powder. About 18 grains of powder. Or almost as much powder is in a .223 cartridge. Or as much powder as is INSIDE 3 - 9mm cartridges.
I did some quick virtual testing using my copy of quickload.
Here is the load data.
57.3 grains of Hodgedon H110
200 grain lead bullet
3.5" barrel gives 1483 fps and 977 ft-lbs of energy
5" barrel gives 1925 fps and 1646 ft-lbs of energy
8.6 barrel (standard size) gives 2411 fps and 2581 ft-lbs of energy.
You are giving up a HUGE amount of performance even by going from a 5" barrel to a 3.5" barrel. The 5" barrel generates 70% more muzzle energy than the 3.5" barrel.
With that said, I realize the 8" gun is probably too big for your needs. With that said, you may want to consider something else. A Ruger super red hawk in 454 Cassul with an 6" barrel will weigh A LOT less than a 3.5" XVR revolver and will generate much more energy than a .460 out of a 3.5" barrel.
1661 FPS and 1225 ft-lbs with the same bullet.
So in short. The 3.5" .460 is actually a pretty dumb gun, unless you like large fireballs. (Only 71% of the powder burns inside the gun with a 3.5" barrel)
You can get a lighter, more potent firearm by using something with a bit longer barrel in a smaller frame.
Don
p.s. Since only 71% burns inside the barrel, that means 29% burns outside the barrel. Which when you consider that you are working with almost 60 grains of powder, is a heck of a lot of powder. About 18 grains of powder. Or almost as much powder is in a .223 cartridge. Or as much powder as is INSIDE 3 - 9mm cartridges.
Last edited:
84ta406
NES Member
Holy shit thats giving up a lot with the shorter barrels. When I first read this thread I was wondering why not the Ruger Alaskan in 454 but I dont have the data to support like you do. Pretty much defeats the purpose of the .460 at that point.
dcmdon
NES Member
Well, the problem is the 2.5" Alaskan does the same thing to the 454 Casull. You really need some barrel to get these rounds up to speed.
A 454 Casull using 35.9 gr of H110 can push the same bullet at the following speeds from the following barrels.
2.5" - 1025 fps, 467 ft-lbs
5" - 1550 fps, 1067 ft-lbs
8 - 1822 fps, 1474 ft-lbs
So an 8" 454 Casull generates THREE TIMES as much muzzle energy from an 8 inch bbl as it does from a 2.5" bbl.
Don
p.s. This is all unproven from QuickLoad. However, its proven to be pretty close.
A 454 Casull using 35.9 gr of H110 can push the same bullet at the following speeds from the following barrels.
2.5" - 1025 fps, 467 ft-lbs
5" - 1550 fps, 1067 ft-lbs
8 - 1822 fps, 1474 ft-lbs
So an 8" 454 Casull generates THREE TIMES as much muzzle energy from an 8 inch bbl as it does from a 2.5" bbl.
Don
p.s. This is all unproven from QuickLoad. However, its proven to be pretty close.
Last edited:
Thanks Don. Some good info to consider. In a way your info seems to point back to the old Super Redhawk versus 460V debate. It seems to me like 454 Casull or maybe even 45 Colt could be used for the defensive round even from the 460V and the 460 could be a range toy. Another concern I have is the loudness of these rounds. Of course you would rather lose hearing/get ringing in the ears than die, but seems like an issue still worth considering. Does anyone publish dB values?
Yeah I like the looks of the Alaskans but knew I was going to lose A LOT of velocity and energy so I went with the 7.5" SRH. It would be a waste of H110 powder, XTP bullets and primers to lose all that speed and energy IMO.
dcmdon
NES Member
I bet that you could develop a load specifically for short barreled versions of these guns.
The normal powders are simply too slow to burn completely in so short a barrel.
Based on this using H110 out of a 2.5 inch alaskan
A 454 Casull using 35.9 gr of H110 can push the same bullet at the following speeds from the following barrels.
2.5" - 1025 fps, 467 ft-lbs
Using 34.5 gr of Accurate number 9 I was able to (using quick load) get the same bullet out of the same 2.5" alaskan load up to:
1374 fps and 838 ft lbs of energy.
So by using a quicker powder, you can negate the effect of a short barrel. . . . a little. But keep in mind if you don't reload, you are stuck with the type of results I showed above.
Lets try the next faster accurate powder. Accurate number 7.
Using 32 Gr of AA number 7 gets just a bit more speed.
1382 fps and 848 ft lbs of energy.
Now lets try Accurate number 5
Using 25.9 gr of AA5, gives similar results to number 7.
1379 fps 844 ft lbs of energy.
So using faster powder than normal for the caliber can gain you 350 fps over standard ammo. This pushes the round up into the range of a .357 magnum with a 6" barrel. Ha. pathetic.
So think about it. What would you rather carry around all day, a 6" .357 magnum or a monster Alaskan, which weighs almost twice as much.
Don
The normal powders are simply too slow to burn completely in so short a barrel.
Based on this using H110 out of a 2.5 inch alaskan
A 454 Casull using 35.9 gr of H110 can push the same bullet at the following speeds from the following barrels.
2.5" - 1025 fps, 467 ft-lbs
Using 34.5 gr of Accurate number 9 I was able to (using quick load) get the same bullet out of the same 2.5" alaskan load up to:
1374 fps and 838 ft lbs of energy.
So by using a quicker powder, you can negate the effect of a short barrel. . . . a little. But keep in mind if you don't reload, you are stuck with the type of results I showed above.
Lets try the next faster accurate powder. Accurate number 7.
Using 32 Gr of AA number 7 gets just a bit more speed.
1382 fps and 848 ft lbs of energy.
Now lets try Accurate number 5
Using 25.9 gr of AA5, gives similar results to number 7.
1379 fps 844 ft lbs of energy.
So using faster powder than normal for the caliber can gain you 350 fps over standard ammo. This pushes the round up into the range of a .357 magnum with a 6" barrel. Ha. pathetic.
So think about it. What would you rather carry around all day, a 6" .357 magnum or a monster Alaskan, which weighs almost twice as much.
Don
