Running out of Ammo in Private Citizen Self-Defense Shootings?

[sigfanboy13]

Probably my worst nightmare in a home invasion scenario. To wake from a dead sleep to a loud crash only to find a couple crazies on meth, bath salt, flakka, etc.

I've seen these people in the ER and it takes 6-8 of us to hold them down, joint locks and all. They cannot be reasoned with or talked out of anything. They have animal strength and it's the reason why I have a home defense shotgun nearby and carry a spare mag.

YouTube: people on meth, people on flakka, people on bath salts.

You and I had the same idea. That's the exact reason I bought my Mossberg. If someone is brazen enough to try to break into your house while you're in it, its safe to assume they are either highly determined or cranked out of their mind. Skip the handgun if you can and go straight for the 12ga.

 

[kalash]

But i absolutely think you're kidding yourself if you think a j-frame shoved in your pocket is good enough for anything more serious than random street crime stuff. I dont carry for that, im not gonna shoot some kid trying to steal my wallet, im much more oriented towards mass shooter stuff or terrorist attacks that i could find myself in the middle of. I guess it depends on your outlook.

I think carrying a G19 because you're afraid of a terrorist attack in NH is kind of crazy but maybe I'm just not operator enough. On the other hand, when I used to commute into Boston, my biggest concern was some homeless guy on the street or a junkie lurking in the parking garage, while still having to conceal in business casual or losing my job - pocket snubnose was perfect for that. In the city in general I feel like a pocket gun makes sense because you can have your hand already on it and still walk around without arousing any suspicion.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer carrying more gun than less, but some of you are seemingly equating the revolver to a rape whistle.

 

[sigfanboy13]

I think carrying a G19 because you're afraid of a terrorist attack in NH is kind of crazy but maybe I'm just not operator enough. On the other hand, when I used to commute into Boston, my biggest concern was some homeless guy on the street or a junkie lurking in the parking garage, while still having to conceal in business casual or losing my job - pocket snubnose was perfect for that. In the city in general I feel like a pocket gun makes sense because you can have your hand already on it and still walk around without arousing any suspicion.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer carrying more gun than less, but some of you are seemingly equating the revolver to a rape whistle.

What did you carry? I work in the city myself and I'm thinking of a pocket pistol to go with business attire.

 

[kalash]

What did you carry? I work in the city myself and I'm thinking of a pocket pistol to go with business attire.

LCR. I don't like small semi-autos.

 

[sigfanboy13]

LCR. I don't like small semi-autos.

Thanks for the tip, are small semi's uncomfy to shoot? They sure aren't that comfy to hold, even with the pinky mags (only picked them up at my LGS).

 

[garandman]

If this is the case, it's hard to argue that we need 15 or 17 round magazines for self defense.

Correct, that's why so many CCW are single stack.

 

[kalash]

Thanks for the tip, are small semi's uncomfy to shoot? They sure aren't that comfy to hold, even with the pinky mags (only picked them up at my LGS).

I don't like my pinkie hanging in space, I don't like thin narrow grips, and I don't like itty-bitty controls and levers.

 

[SKumar]

Correct, that's why so many CCW are single stack.

Wrong. So many CCW are single stack for comfort and convenience reasons. Nobody voluntarily chooses to carry less than their weapon can hold.

 

[sigfanboy13]

I don't like my pinkie hanging in space, I don't like thin narrow grips, and I don't like itty-bitty controls and levers.

+1

 

[AllaSnackbah]

I think carrying a G19 because you're afraid of a terrorist attack in NH is kind of crazy but maybe I'm just not operator enough. On the other hand, when I used to commute into Boston, my biggest concern was some homeless guy on the street or a junkie lurking in the parking garage, while still having to conceal in business casual or losing my job - pocket snubnose was perfect for that. In the city in general I feel like a pocket gun makes sense because you can have your hand already on it and still walk around without arousing any suspicion.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer carrying more gun than less, but some of you are seemingly equating the revolver to a rape whistle.

I think carrying a G19 because you're scared of a terrorist attack is crazy too, not my preferred choice against dudes with AKs or some crazy shit like that, but its the perfect balance of firepower and concealability on my operator physique, and i usually have a long gun within short reach if i really need to go full threetard. Im not in NH all the time, i travel for work often, but even if i were strictly in NH it wouldn't seem crazy to me to be prepared for the worst while expecting the best. Isnt that what we all do every day as people who choose to carry? Nobody in Sandy Hook CT was expecting Adam Lanza to shoot up the elementary school, nobody will be expecting a pair of jihadis to walk into any random ****ing school in the US and easily quadruple Lanzas bodycount, something im surprised hasnt happened yet but im sure the day is coming. Like i said before if your biggest concern is Diante and his boys hurting your feels by shaking you down for $100 cash and your credit card then by all means carry your LCP/LCR/Bodyguard, but i prefer have the capability to be the check on the next psycho who thinks he can gun down a bunch of kids if i just happen to be working accross the street from whatever target he picks. Im not big on the "sheepdog concept", personally i dont really care how many mindless people who choose to be unarmed, or underarmed, these psychos mow down on their next spree, to me its more of a "**** you, you think you can get away with this? Murdering innocent unarmed people, lets see what you got" kind of thing. Maybe im just a big dick alpha operator wannabe, idk, but either way your j-frame sucks and so do all the excuses. A glock 26 is 10x more gun than a jframe and just as concealable, if your going for the "im not an' operator' so i choose to carry a j-frame" hipster thing then i got you, rock on with your bad self, but dont try to pass it off as being just as good/all youll ever need, because it might not be, because time and time again these events happen where we're least expecting them to, and nobodys ever there to take the violence to these ****s, well if im ever put in the situation and i can, i plan to. You can call 911 on your cellphone as you run away with your hand on your sweatpants pocket jframe.

 

[kalash]

Calm down, alpha wolf. A Glock 26 is not nearly as concealable as a snubnose wheel gun. It might work fine in your camo cargo pants but not everyone wears those Mon-Fri. In any sort of dress pant, that 26 is going to print like a mofo and there's nothing you can really do about that. I'm also not in the sticks somewhere so no, I'm not leaving a rifle in my car on the off-chance that I'll want to be a mall ninja and save the world - that's more of your Meal Team Six fantasies.

That said, I've already acknowledged that a "j-frame" might not be "all I ever need" - made that pretty clear in my posts. My point is that there are times when I can't get away with carrying a G26 or whatever, in which case I'd rather have a revolver than a rape whistle - not sure how you can argue against that really.

 

[JayMcB]

What did you carry? I work in the city myself and I'm thinking of a pocket pistol to go with business attire.

You can absolutely carry a BG380 in dress attire. You can probably also carry a PM9. I've done both. If I wear a suit jacket, I can pretty much carry a G19 all year around. A deep concealment IWB holster helps. I'm still experimenting, but my current one is a Vega IWB and it conceals pretty well.

The fact that I've lost almost 40 pounds also helps out a bit in concealing it too

 

[AllaSnackbah]

Calm down, alpha wolf. A Glock 26 is not nearly as concealable as a snubnose wheel gun. It might work fine in your camo cargo pants but not everyone wears those Mon-Fri. In any sort of dress pant, that 26 is going to print like a mofo and there's nothing you can really do about that. I'm also not in the sticks somewhere so no, I'm not leaving a rifle in my car on the off-chance that I'll want to be a mall ninja and save the world - that's more of your Meal Team Six fantasies.

That said, I've already acknowledged that a "j-frame" might not be "all I ever need" - made that pretty clear in my posts. My point is that there are times when I can't get away with carrying a G26 or whatever, in which case I'd rather have a revolver than a rape whistle - not sure how you can argue against that really.

Im totally calm dude, i also already acknowledged that if im somewhere low probability i carry something as gay as a glock 42. A G26 can be easily carried as dicretely as a jframe if you use the right holster, maybe too blocky for pocket carry, but pocket carry is gay, and i dont know if theres any gun that wont print in the pocket of a pair of dress pants.

You keep trying to jab at my style and call me a mall ninja, but i carry a g19/17 in business casual every day without printing. I also dont really have any mall ninja save the world fantasy either, the way i figure is if im trained, on location, and could make a difference when something happens i have a bit of an obligation to do something, so i try to be as prepared for that possibility in the course of my daily life as possible. If that makes me a fantasy mall ninja cargo pants wearing mall ninja in your book thats cool i guess, i still prefer that to trying to be the next george zimmerman, smoke checking some homeless dude trying to strong arm you out of a pack of cigarrettes. So killing a bum in defense of yourself is cool, but wanting to punch adam lanzas timecard makes you a mall ninja. Roger, got it.

 

[E.Stoner]

The fact that I've lost almost 40 pounds also helps out a bit in concealing it too

My winter gut is making IWB bloody murder right now. Good news it's getting me back to the gym, bad news I am actually considering a dig-camo tactical moo-moo. You can conceal anything you want under that shit! (including my shame)

 

[kalash]

A G26 can be easily carried as dicretely as a jframe if you use the right holster, maybe too blocky for pocket carry, but pocket carry is gay, and i dont know if theres any gun that wont print in the pocket of a pair of dress pants.

What's wrong with pocket carry? Super discreet - I've pocket carried in dress pants for several years now and there's no printing (I do use a pocket holster). I've tried jamming a G26 into my pocket - not happening; in fact every semi-auto is too blocky and prints like crazy. No, I don't like having five rounds and slow reloads but that's all I can get away with in dress attire. In addition to being discreet, pocket carry allows you to have your hand on the gun ready to draw without looking put of place. By the way, why do you ever carry a G42? It's no good for snackbar homies so I'm guessing it's for those times that you can't carry anything bigger, which is exactly why I ever carry a wheel gun.

You keep trying to jab at my style and call me a mall ninja, but i carry a g19/17 in business casual every day without printing.

How?

I also dont really have any mall ninja save the world fantasy either, the way i figure is if im trained, on location, and could make a difference when something happens i have a bit of an obligation to do something, so i try to be as prepared for that possibility in the course of my daily life as possible. If that makes me a fantasy mall ninja cargo pants wearing mall ninja in your book thats cool i guess, i still prefer that to trying to be the next george zimmerman, smoke checking some homeless dude trying to strong arm you out of a pack of cigarrettes. So killing a bum in defense of yourself is cool, but wanting to punch adam lanzas timecard makes you a mall ninja. Roger, got it.

What are you more likely to encounter, another Lanza (how often are you in schools and armed?) or terrorist attack, or a street thug with a knife? I know you train and I'm totally behind that but I'm just not that worried about some Muhammad when I'm cruising from driveway to parking lot in the burbs; hell there are days I can't carry at all and I don't lose sleep over it. Also, you keep saying I want to blow some dude out of his shoes over pocket cash but that's not it at all. I'll happily hand over my wallet; I'm more concerned about that same dude pulling a knife on me - I'm not willing to live that moment on the hope and prayer that he won't use it, I'm drawing on him and pocket carry has an advantage in that moment.

 

[milktree]

Correct, that's why so many CCW are single stack.

Wat? No no... single stack guns are skinny and easier to stuff in your pocket or hide under a shirt. If someone made a skinny 15 round gun, they'd sell like hotcakes.

 

[babygorilla]

Wat? No no... single stack guns are skinny and easier to stuff in your pocket or hide under a shirt. If someone made a skinny 15 round gun, they'd sell like hotcakes.

Only an inch wide but the grip is 3 feet long, lol.

 

[chris_1001]

Wat? No no... single stack guns are skinny and easier to stuff in your pocket or hide under a shirt. If someone made a skinny 15 round gun, they'd sell like hotcakes.

My G43 is slim and short. Even with a +1 floor plate.

To those that comment on how hard it might be to shoot pinky off the grip or just a tiny 9mm. I can attest that my G43 has a softer recoil than my J-Frame (SW 337) and that the floating pinky does not bother me in the least. It's not a range gun... In the heat of combat if you notice the recoil, I'd think you are focusing on the wrong thing.

 

[allen-1]

My G43 is slim and short. Even with a +1 floor plate.

To those that comment on how hard it might be to shoot pinky off the grip or just a tiny 9mm. I can attest that my G43 has a softer recoil than my J-Frame (SW 337) and that the floating pinky does not bother me in the least. It's not a range gun... In the heat of combat if you notice the recoil, I'd think you are focusing on the wrong thing.

G43 with a Plus1 aftermarket base plate; my pinky doesn't float. Gives me 7+1 and a spare mag with 7 rounds in an easily concealable firearm. A little snappy perhaps, but as Chris said, this isn't a range gun, it's a self-defense gun. I put aftermarket sights on it to match the sights on my G17, and left the crappy trigger alone - it's adequate. Fits under a t-shirt, or a dress shirt.

When I've got more concealment, I can carry my G17; controls are identical.

 

[chris_1001]

To follow up, I hate the +1 floor (TTI) plate because it does make for an awkward grip. I did swap my finger extension mags for flat base. As it feels better with my pinky free floating. But that's my opinion. I'm sure there are better options for ME. But I'll deal as it.

Much prefer a G26 or a G19 (yes I have them) over a G43, but when you really want to go low profile, a G43 is great.

Not trying to start a caliber war, but I also have a G42 (as it came out before the 43 and I have a Sig P238), but I don't trust a .380. Again I have evolved from a G27, then to a J-Frame to a .380 Auto and now back to 9mm auto.

I've flirted with the idea of a 3" Sig 1911 in .45, this might be my next evolution.

The more classes I take and more wisdom I hear the more I evolve. And I am FAR from a new gun owner. I could have saved a ton of cash if I just bought a G26 and stuck with it ~20 years ago or so. The reason I hated the G27 was its size, but back then all the IWB holsters sucked. Now there are SO many choices (as evidenced by my holster collection) that you are bound to find something that works.

 

[AllaSnackbah]

What's wrong with pocket carry? Super discreet - I've pocket carried in dress pants for several years now and there's no printing (I do use a pocket holster). I've tried jamming a G26 into my pocket - not happening; in fact every semi-auto is too blocky and prints like crazy. No, I don't like having five rounds and slow reloads but that's all I can get away with in dress attire. In addition to being discreet, pocket carry allows you to have your hand on the gun ready to draw without looking put of place. By the way, why do you ever carry a G42? It's no good for snackbar homies so I'm guessing it's for those times that you can't carry anything bigger, which is exactly why I ever carry a wheel gun.



How?



What are you more likely to encounter, another Lanza (how often are you in schools and armed?) or terrorist attack, or a street thug with a knife? I know you train and I'm totally behind that but I'm just not that worried about some Muhammad when I'm cruising from driveway to parking lot in the burbs; hell there are days I can't carry at all and I don't lose sleep over it. Also, you keep saying I want to blow some dude out of his shoes over pocket cash but that's not it at all. I'll happily hand over my wallet; I'm more concerned about that same dude pulling a knife on me - I'm not willing to live that moment on the hope and prayer that he won't use it, I'm drawing on him and pocket carry has an advantage in that moment.

Ill carry a 42 when im out jogging with my dog in running shorts, but like i said anything more than that i prefer something with more rounds and accuracy. G19 is like i said the perfect balance for me. I can carry a 17/19 in an appendix rig with a button down or sport coat pretty easily.

Im not saying you're more likely to encounter Adam Lanza or Muhammad than a common street thug, what im saying is for me it makes more sense to be as ready for that extremely unlikely event as you can, and if somebody tries to carve you up for your wallet, a 19 will still perform.

Im not willing to live my life hoping and praying that something serious wont go down where i could make a difference, so i prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I work in areas close enough to thede soft targets where if someone were in a position to act it could change outcomes.

Do you drive on the highway often? Have you seen the propaganda videos from iraq where they shoot up cars in traffic, cause a jam, then shoot people stuck in their cars? How hard would it be to pull something like that off here in the US? You cant deny that its a possibility.

 

[Tim_McD]

What brand of running shorts does your dog prefer?

Ill carry a 42 when im out jogging with my dog in running shorts........

 

[bigblue]

What brand of running shorts does your dog prefer?

My money is on spandex.

 

[sigfanboy13]

You can absolutely carry a BG380 in dress attire. You can probably also carry a PM9. I've done both. If I wear a suit jacket, I can pretty much carry a G19 all year around. A deep concealment IWB holster helps. I'm still experimenting, but my current one is a Vega IWB and it conceals pretty well.

The fact that I've lost almost 40 pounds also helps out a bit in concealing it too

Congrats on the 40lbs. I know the struggle.

Thank's for the tips I'm torn for a G43 or a P938. I figure those would be a good balance between firepower and concealment. Get a pocket holster and pretend its a wallet. Or a tuck over holster if I'm wearing a polo. I love collecting as much as shooting and I'm just starting out in the world so there's no which is better, just which is first.

A good holster works wonders. I just bought a crossbreed supertuck and a belt. I was at my girlfriends house and I locked my keys in my car. So naturally I start at the door with a screwdriver and a wire hanger to try to pop the lock. I had 3 people come over and start to help me (she lives in the burbs, super tight knight community and it was obvious it was my car). These people were essentially over my shoulder. No one, including her dad noticed the P229 in my waistband and I was out there for awhile breaking into my own car haha. And I was only wearing jeans and a fitted t-shirt.

 

[Rider]

Only an inch wide but the grip is 3 feet long, lol.

You don't CCW a G26 with a 33 round gamer mag?

 

[Terminator03]

To follow up, I hate the +1 floor (TTI) plate because it does make for an awkward grip. I did swap my finger extension mags for flat base. As it feels better with my pinky free floating. But that's my opinion. I'm sure there are better options for ME. But I'll deal as it.

Much prefer a G26 or a G19 (yes I have them) over a G43, but when you really want to go low profile, a G43 is great.

Not trying to start a caliber war, but I also have a G42 (as it came out before the 43 and I have a Sig P238), but I don't trust a .380. Again I have evolved from a G27, then to a J-Frame to a .380 Auto and now back to 9mm auto.

I've flirted with the idea of a 3" Sig 1911 in .45, this might be my next evolution.

The more classes I take and more wisdom I hear the more I evolve. And I am FAR from a new gun owner. I could have saved a ton of cash if I just bought a G26 and stuck with it ~20 years ago or so. The reason I hated the G27 was its size, but back then all the IWB holsters sucked. Now there are SO many choices (as evidenced by my holster collection) that you are bound to find something that works.

That's interesting you say that regarding the mag bases. I found that as well with my compact Ruger carry guns. My first "compact" carry gun was a SR9c, and like you mentioned, I found that the extended mag base not only didn't make the grip better for me, but printed like a mofo because of its hook shape. I have very large hands so even with the so-called extended bases I'm not going to get a full grip anyway, so why deal with the printing. In my case, my pinky naturally rests on the flag bottom mags. It is the same for the single stack LC9s Pro that I carry currently (although the extended grip is a bit more discreet on this model so it doesn't bother me either way). The one thing that I make sure to do is practice in the configuration that I actually carry in, meaning I don't use mag extensions at the range just to get more rounds, or a better grip since I prefer to train with the exact same feel as what I carry with.

 

[babygorilla]

You don't CCW a G26 with a 33 round gamer mag?

 

[mikem317]

Odds are low and stakes are high.

Through observation, I've noticed most armed professionals and seasoned concealed carry civilians use high capacity pistols or 1911s.

So that's what I do. And if I am carrying a standard capacity, single stack pistol, I have at least two additional magazines on me.

I know of one instance where a civilian ran out of ammo in a robbery turned gunfight. It happened a few years ago, in Brazil, at a train or bus terminal. The defender ended up repelling one assailant and apprehending the other but was mortally wounded and eventually succumbed to his GSWs.

 

[ggboy]

I thought that you were a lot more likely to be a victim of gangs than terrrs.
ggboy
And gangs mean numbers.

 

[Andy in NH]

What's wrong with pocket carry?

A person can't draw from pocket carry while sitting down.
We spend a good portion of our lives seated; driving, working and eating at a table.
In order to draw you have to stand up first or contort your body into some sort of position and there might not be room to do so.
Additionally, drawing from pocket carry while driving and seat-belted adds to the difficulty.
Drawing from pocket carry while running is problematic.