Rifle Match at HSC - is this the tactical rifle match?

[Dan Hurley]

I loved the match and appreciate the effort required to put it on. I do have one suggestion: use good old falling plates on the long range event rather than automated devices. I shot on the last squad and the final shooters had only two 300 yd targets; the 200yd resetting plates had died. High power rifles and mechanical devices just don't seem to get along very well.

PS I have another suggestion. Time was of the essence as this was a long match requiring a lot of rounds. Back-ups are inevitable but some can be avoided. I observed one shooter disassemble his AR during a course of fire (the RO helped him, which I thought was fine idea at the time) and then continued through the course, only to be plagued by more jams and delays. This poor guy spent over 10 minutes on a course of fire that should have taken less than a minute. Is there some way to limit delays such as this? Perhaps an overall time limit, very generous of course.

Thanks for the input. It helps us to keep the matches fun when we get good feedback.

On the 300 yard stage, we can't use any targets that require traveling downrange to re-set. The lost travel time adds up quickly and the stage is unworkable. Having said that, we are indeed working on getting some newer targets that will be adequately durable and self-resetting. (On the flip side, the 200 yard resetting plates have been through two rifle matches and an Area 7 3-Gun match, so they've seen perhaps 800+ whacks each. I guess we should have been planning for a failure and been prepared.)

Regarding repairs during a course of fire, the USPSA rules restrict competitors to 2 minutes of repair time after the start signal. At an Area match, we'd follow this strictly because those are the rules. At monthly matches, we try to keep the whole world happy and smiling, ... and usually end up wrankling everybody. It sounds like we should have given that competitor the opportunity to take his rifle to life-support while the squad continued shooting.

If you're talking about Rich Frazier, the rifle had a stuck case and we didn't know if it was live or not; then once it was out of the gun, he might as well finish the course. Stuck cases are always a logistical nightmare during matches. You just hate sending a guy to the safety table with a live round in the chamber.

 

[Massman]

Thanks Dan for pointing that out
I actually finished the stage in question (stage 6) in about 103 sec. even with the failure. I believe the timer was still running? Easy to lose track.
It is never fun to have problems with your equipment during a match. I, for one, am appreciative for the accomodation.

 

[Gammon]

Thanks for the input. It helps us to keep the matches fun when we get good feedback.

On the 300 yard stage, we can't use any targets that require traveling downrange to re-set. The lost travel time adds up quickly and the stage is unworkable. Having said that, we are indeed working on getting some newer targets that will be adequately durable and self-resetting. (On the flip side, the 200 yard resetting plates have been through two rifle matches and an Area 7 3-Gun match, so they've seen perhaps 800+ whacks each. I guess we should have been planning for a failure and been prepared.)

Regarding repairs during a course of fire, the USPSA rules restrict competitors to 2 minutes of repair time after the start signal. At an Area match, we'd follow this strictly because those are the rules. At monthly matches, we try to keep the whole world happy and smiling, ... and usually end up wrankling everybody. It sounds like we should have given that competitor the opportunity to take his rifle to life-support while the squad continued shooting.

If you're talking about Rich Frazier, the rifle had a stuck case and we didn't know if it was live or not; then once it was out of the gun, he might as well finish the course. Stuck cases are always a logistical nightmare during matches. You just hate sending a guy to the safety table with a live round in the chamber.

Plate setting can be time consuming, but this time can be reduced to a minimum. Dan S once put on a three gun match at Pelham (excellent match, by the way) where plate setting was slowing down the rifle stage as there were quite a few targets at distances up to 250yds. Someone came up with the bright idea of driving the plate setters downrange and back in a van. This saved quite a bit of time. The 200/300yd range at Harvard would be an ideal site for this method of plate setting. A few dry runs with a timer would establish how long the plate setting takes and whether or not this method would work with the expected number of competitors.

Sorry Massman. I guess my estimate of the amount of time you spent on the range was way off. Watching a shooter struggle with a balky rifle while the timer is running can warp your perspective of elapsed time.

 

[PistolPete]

Gammon, that's a good point about using a truck or even an ATV to go down range. However, one thing to keep in mind that the way this stage was setup where you had to shoot the same plates from 3 different locations it wouldn't allow that if it was falling and nonresetting steel. However, if we were driving people down range it would still add an additional 3-5 minutes per shooter and hold the entire match up.

Pete

 

[Dan S]

At that 3 gun match, the rifle stage was paper targets, with a stop plate to be engaged with your pistol. Stop plates were available at several distances, so, the shooter had the option of proceeding downrange or shooting long range. One participant shot an M1 Carbine, he chose to move downrange.
At the Miller Invitational, rifle was a side match. Total number of shooters exceeded the number at Harvard this past Sunday, but, were spread over 3 days, allowing time for scoring/ taping targets. That usually backed up on Saturday though.
Nick W, suggested MGM flash targets. No electrics to fail, just gravity.

 

[Gammon]

Gammon, that's a good point about using a truck or even an ATV to go down range. However, one thing to keep in mind that the way this stage was setup where you had to shoot the same plates from 3 different locations it wouldn't allow that if it was falling and nonresetting steel. However, if we were driving people down range it would still add an additional 3-5 minutes per shooter and hold the entire match up.

Pete

The long range event required the shooter to engage twelve targets; four targets from three positions. The automated targets would be replaced with twelve plates which would be set at 200 and 300yds. These targets could then be engaged in an order (two at 200 and two at 300) from the three positions to duplicate the stage we just shot.

I'm not sure about the time involved, a few timed runs would be necessary to determine feasibilty. Perhaps Dan Hurley could give us some parameters; max time for the stage or max time allowable per shooter?

 

[MFP4073]

By the way... I know it is a little late - I have had a lot on my plate lately and forgot to post after the match. But I also want to let the guys at Harvard know what a great time I had at the rifle match again this year. I (we) really appreciate your efforts and hard work so we can all enjoy ourselves. I thought it was well run and the stages were fun. Boy you can really tell that I don't shoot a lot of USPSA rifle matches!

The only thing that I was a little concerned about was on stage 6 - the movement from the big pit with the star across to the next. The waiting area for stage 5 was a little to easy for some to potentially "sweep" while running or if one should trip and have an AD.

Thanks for another great match!