Restictions on Sale of Bullets for reloading to Mass

[atilla]

Ok I'll bite, since you know a lot more about this than me. Please educate me I CCW in Mass, NH, CT and several other eastern states. I use a Walther P99ASc 9mm that is approved on Martha's list and the DPS list. I use factory Speer Gold Dot HP for my self defense ammo. The standard mag I can fit in there is 10rds.

So are you suggesting I should take my Gen3 G17 (not on Martha's list) that I use for competition, modified with a 2lb drop in trigger group, extended stricker, DPM recoil spring, modified slide and mag release, load of one of my 17 round preban mags with a reloaded 9mm HP loaded to max power factor and use it as a carry gun? And hope for the best when I shoot someone in Mass?

I can recall at least 3 different CCW class instuctors saying never do the later.

and all three were wrong. none of that matters, dude.

 

[kelton]

Not trying to be a jerk, but it's kind of like saying you should also not wear running shoes/sneakers when you ccw.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Ok I'll bite, since you know a lot more about this than me. Please educate me I CCW in Mass, NH, CT and several other eastern states. I use a Walther P99ASc 9mm that is approved on Martha's list and the DPS list. I use factory Speer Gold Dot HP for my self defense ammo. The standard mag I can fit in there is 10rds.

So are you suggesting I should take my Gen3 G17 (not on Martha's list) that I use for competition, modified with a 2lb drop in trigger group, extended stricker, DPM recoil spring, modified slide and mag release, load of one of my 17 round preban mags with a reloaded 9mm HP loaded to max power factor and use it as a carry gun? And hope for the best when I shoot someone in Mass?

I can recall at least 3 different CCW class instuctors saying never do the later.

Please provide a LINK to Martha's List. Myself and many others here anxiously await being able to review her LIST!

As atilla points out, most instructors are totally clueless about MA gun laws! I'd like a nickel for every time I've heard an instructor spew "you can't carry in a bank since it is federally insured" or "you can't carry in a bar/restaurant that serves alcohol"! That kind of bullshit is what motivated me to create a seminar on MA gun laws to debunk that crap and hopefully educate those willing to listen and learn.

and all three were wrong. none of that matters, dude.

So quantity in his mind == fact/law!

- - - Updated - - -

According to his logic, I'd be in a world of hurt if I ever shot someone with my original duty guns (I still own them) because they have never been tested and approved by the state . . . but it was OK while I was working as a police officer. Right!!!

 

[edhead35]

I can recall at least 3 different CCW class instuctors saying never do the later.

It is not illegal for you to own a non compliant handgun. It is a problem for the dealer to sell it. So why not do something perfectly legal?
Regarding ammo: no law against carrying high powered reloads. No one has ever been prosecuted for using reloads. Lawyers and LEOs scaring people as usual. One of Ayoob's mistakes. There was a case where a guy supposedly got pinched for using a 10mm in Florida and they saw it as excessive, but if I remember correctly there was some confusion around the facts of the case.
Regarding mags: yes. It is legal
Regarding all of those mods: I wouldn't carry a 2lb trigger in a carry gun, but not because I am afraid of carrying mods, that would be a personal choice. I would certainly carry a gun that had the MA trigger altered to normal trigger pull at around 5lbs.

Not doing something legal for some crazy fear of an LEO butthurt is ridiculous. This is why mandatory training is wrong on so many levels. It clearly is spreading a wealth of misinformation around.

 

[drgrant]

I wish one of these would appear every time an "instructor" or a gun shop commando told a lie about the law....

 

[EddieCoyle]

I thought it through. I had the same exact experience with xxxxxx recently. It has come up before that they no longer ship to mass. Relax. The post below yours is an example of "not thinking it through". Please clean it up "mod".

I edited out the name again because I know people that are having better luck with them than you are. Please stop posting it.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

SOP for the AGs office appears to be to send Cease and Decist orders to anybody selling ammo and ammo components to the subjects of the Commonwealth.

I need to ask because I am new to this but.......why?

 

[Judicator]

Because they can't regulate who is ordering components without a license. As you should know in MA you need a license to lawfully own ANY component off ammunition. It's just easier to restrict companies from sending it.


Sent from my IPhone, please ignore spelling mistakes. Siri is dumb.

 

[Jason Flare]

Someone told me I can't carry in a bank because they're federally insured and for ha ha's I told them you can't carry in a flood zone.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Someone told me I can't carry in a bank because they're federally insured and for ha ha's I told them you can't carry in a flood zone.

Ask the next turkey that says this "Do you have an FHA or VA mortgage on your house? Because if you do, you can't own any guns/ammo/knives/or other weapons!" Then tell them that they can't travel with guns on them or in the car on the Interstate Highways as they are all Federal too . . . and see their heads explode!

 

[drgrant]

I need to ask because I am new to this but.......why?

Because the AG is anti gun, and every AG this state has had in recent history (at least the past 3 administrations) has been anti gun. There's more to it than that, but that's the summary version/core reason. Don't think about it too long your head will explode. Just wallhack the problem and move on with life..

-Mike

 

[Colt Delta Elite]

Because the AG is anti gun, and every AG this state has had in recent history (at least the past 3 administrations) has been anti gun. There's more to it than that, but that's the summary version/core reason. Don't think about it too long your head will explode. Just wallhack the problem and move on with life.. -Mike

UPS had to add another truck to my route just for me, carry on

 

[60 buckscash]

I have a Florida address. If you run out of options we can work out something.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[DukeInFlorida]

Ditto.... I can order anything.

I have a Florida address. If you run out of options we can work out something.

 

[Mark from MA]

I guess i never understand the out of state shipping agony. Find a local ffl and do business with him. Become friends and they usually will do you a solid and order stuff in.

If they cant, for some reason go up to NH and buy it.

That said i do understand the frustration of a vendor who will not ship a compliant gun or lower to a MA FFL. That is just ****ing moronic.


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[mac1911]

I guess i never understand the out of state shipping agony. Find a local ffl and do business with him. Become friends and they usually will do you a solid and order stuff in.

If they cant, for some reason go up to NH and buy it.

That said i do understand the frustration of a vendor who will not ship a compliant gun or lower to a MA FFL. That is just ****ing moronic.


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I had little luck with this. I have walked into shops with the contact information
all the info if they don't already have an account. Seems they just arecnot interested or wont stray from their vendors? Sucks.... missed a great deal on 8mm Mauser they would ship to ffl. Free shipping too. Stuff sold out in 2 days.
It frustrates me down here in se mass things suck. Even 25 years ago it was the trips to nh to stock up with my dad. 1. Hard to find what he wanted 2. It was cheaper even after the cost of gas.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I guess i never understand the out of state shipping agony. Find a local ffl and do business with him. Become friends and they usually will do you a solid and order stuff in.

Here's the problem: In addition to not shipping to residents, a lot of the online retailers will not ship to FFLs in MA either.

It all depends on how they've been threatened by the AG, or how they perceive the "problem" of shipping to MA. Many retailers have not been threatened directly, but are aware of the details of the threats made to other retailers; so they've decided to institute proactive "No Shipping To MA" policies. Word gets around fast. A lot of retailers are working on pretty thin margins and are not capable of footing any big legal bills, so they avoid it.

 

[CMEBoston]

Chances are that someone mentioned that company here before and one of the AG's trolls reported back, a letter was sent and the rest is history!

That is usually how it goes.

Or a LGS drops the dime


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[That Guy]

I know that manufacturers and dealers are just trying to avoid costly lawsuits, but they really aren't seeing the long run here. As more states become as restrictive as MA (CT, CA, NY, IL, etc), these guys are going to start running out of places to sell their wares. If I were a large manufacturer, I'd be fighting this now when it's against one or two states rather than wait until the entire deck is stacked against me.

 

[drgrant]

I know that manufacturers and dealers are just trying to avoid costly lawsuits, but they really aren't seeing the long run here. As more states become as restrictive as MA (CT, CA, NY, IL, etc), these guys are going to start running out of places to sell their wares. If I were a large manufacturer, I'd be fighting this now when it's against one or two states rather than wait until the entire deck is stacked against me.

No, most states aren't anywhere near ****ed up as MA is about this. (WRT bullets, powder, primers etc.) Even most of the other anti states don't do this crap to the remotes that MA does.

The people selling the stuff have no economic incentive because the product is still getting into MA one way or another, whether the AG likes it or not. If it's not direct it's coming in through a drop point in a bordering state. People have been playing this game in MA for decade + at this point.

-Mike

 

[That Guy]

Mike - I get that, but the hysteria is spreading, state by state. I know it's not a large financial hit for, say, Colt to not be able to sell a specific pistol here, but do you really think IL or CT are going to not notice this? Just my opinion - I believe it would be cheaper to fight just MA than a whole collection of states.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Mike - I get that, but the hysteria is spreading, state by state. I know it's not a large financial hit for, say, Colt to not be able to sell a specific pistol here, but do you really think IL or CT are going to not notice this? Just my opinion - I believe it would be cheaper to fight just MA than a whole collection of states.

There are a bunch of reasons why this is unlikely to happen.

First of all, it's not just one 'fight'. We were talking about components in this thread (which is one fight) and you brought up pistols, which is another fight altogether. You can't lump this crap together into a "Mass-Sucks-For-Gun-Owners" mega-lawsuit. Also, a win in MA means nothing to the other states. The fight will have to be fought anywhere these laws exist.

So let's stick with MA and ammo components for now.

Manufacturers and distributors can't keep up with demand right now, so forget about them funding any kind of lawsuit until the 'shortage' is over and component manufacturers have to once again compete for business and look for growth by trying to expand into under-served markets. That could be 5 years (or way longer if congress keeps trying to ban guns).

The AG will fight this tooth-and-nail. The AG has a virtually unlimited legal budget (that we pay for). It's going to be very expensive for some company to take on the Commonwealth of MA - even if they win. It will be way more expensive if they take on the Commonwealth and lose. As Mike said, components manufacturers are still selling to MA residents even with the 'ban' in place. So the financial incentive (the increase in sales if the ban is lifted) is quite small.

 

[That Guy]

For things like handguns and certain long guns, it is the manufacturers that need to be concerned. For things like components and ammo, the distributers should be the ones taking a vested interest, i.e., Midway, Brownells - yes, XXXXX bullets might still be making it into MA, but a fair number of large distributers are not making one cent from those sales. Those are the companies with an interest in fighting this crap earlier, especially when they are actually operating within the law.

IMO, they know this and rather than deal with these sorts of problems head on, they have chosen option number two: fake shortages that drive prices up. There are very few places that actually manufacture powder, if I understand it correctly. They slow production down, get us all used to paying $28 a pound for powder and being happy to do so just because we were able to find it. Soon they will release more components gradually, but the prices aren't ever going down.

Fake shortages are making these companies rich, but I still believe it's a shortsighted plan for them.

 

[mke0039]

For things like handguns and certain long guns, it is the manufacturers that need to be concerned. For things like components and ammo, the distributers should be the ones taking a vested interest, i.e., Midway, Brownells - yes, XXXXXX bullets might still be making it into MA, but a fair number of large distributers are not making one cent from those sales. Those are the companies with an interest in fighting this crap earlier, especially when they are actually operating within the law.

IMO, they know this and rather than deal with these sorts of problems head on, they have chosen option number two: fake shortages that drive prices up. There are very few places that actually manufacture powder, if I understand it correctly. They slow production down, get us all used to paying $28 a pound for powder and being happy to do so just because we were able to find it. Soon they will release more components gradually, but the prices aren't ever going down.

Fake shortages are making these companies rich, but I still believe it's a shortsighted plan for them.

You know where I can get powder for $28???

 

[headednorth]

For things like handguns and certain long guns, it is the manufacturers that need to be concerned. For things like components and ammo, the distributers should be the ones taking a vested interest, i.e., Midway, Brownells - yes, XXXXX bullets might still be making it into MA, but a fair number of large distributers are not making one cent from those sales. Those are the companies with an interest in fighting this crap earlier, especially when they are actually operating within the law.

IMO, they know this and rather than deal with these sorts of problems head on, they have chosen option number two: fake shortages that drive prices up. There are very few places that actually manufacture powder, if I understand it correctly. They slow production down, get us all used to paying $28 a pound for powder and being happy to do so just because we were able to find it. Soon they will release more components gradually, but the prices aren't ever going down.

Fake shortages are making these companies rich, but I still believe it's a shortsighted plan for them.

Do they really need to "fake" a shortage? We all know the demand is there, and you said yourself there are only a few manufacturers. I agree about the price staying where it is though. Demand would have to fall off a cliff for them to drop prices significantly and I dont see that happening. Between the backlog, all the new shooters (along with new reloaders), and people who have been through a few ammo scares in not all that long of a period of time, I dont see any drop off in demand. Aside from the dyed-in-the-wool hoarders, average enthusiasts have now developed a least a bit of a hoarding instinct.

 

[EddieCoyle]

yes, XXXXX bullets might still be making it into MA...

Please don't out companies that will still ship to Mass. Are you trying to make the problem worse? I had to edit your post, and every post that quoted it.

they have chosen option number two: fake shortages that drive prices up. There are very few places that actually manufacture powder, if I understand it correctly. They slow production down, get us all used to paying $28 a pound for powder and being happy to do so just because we were able to find it. Soon they will release more components gradually, but the prices aren't ever going down.

Fake shortages are making these companies rich, but I still believe it's a shortsighted plan for them.

Is it fun making shit up? Because everything you wrote above is 100% pure fantasy.

 

[kayak1]

You know where I can get powder for $28???

.