Reloading Breakdown

[SnakeEye]

In light of the 25% price increase scheduled to hit September 1st for .223 ammo (in addition to the already umpteen % accrued already over the last year) i find myself regretting my decision to buy a black rifle amid all the deval and post strip club shooting hype.
Can someone who reloads .223, and perhaps .45apc help breakdown what the cost is per round, or even per 100-500 so i can get a clearer picture of how much savings i stand to see when i finally light a fire under my ass and buy a press. Ive been putting off buying one for months now, all the while buying more commercial ammo as the prices keep spiraling upwards..im a damn fool!
I really just need someone would be kind enough to spell out the savings in black and white, plain and simple numbers.

 

[Weerd Beard]

I load .45 ACP, and while I haven't gone for a SERIOUS breakdown (ie figguring out home many loads are in a pound of powder, or averaging how many shots I can get out of a case) I figgured it costs more-or-less the same for 50 round of my handloads as it does for me to buy a box of Wolf of CCI Blaser ammo. Only difference is the ammo shoots a LOT better...and I need to spend time loading it up.

I rather like handloading, so that part is fun. and the difference in performance easily makes up any other difference to me.

-Weer'd Beard

 

[PistolPete]

Here is an idea:

For .40 S&W I get 1000 bullets for $92.25
1000 primers for $23.00
1 lb. of powder $20 (however 1 lb. goes a lot further)
I already have all my brass so: $0

For 1000 rounds of my loaded ammo I'm at: $135.25

At $13 per box for .40 S&W ammo (Wolf mind you) I'd be at $260 per 1000.

Needless to say I couldn't afford NOT to reload?

If I shoot 1000 rounds a month (which I shoot more) I will save $1497 per year. Again, how can I afford NOT to reload?

 

[Supermoto]

.45 acp cost around $.10 a round give or take, depending on powder and bullets.

using lead is less, JHP more.

I usually firgure .08 for the bullet for plated
$.02 for the primer.
Case are free at the range.
and 231 powder lasts so long that I don't factor it in, you get like 5500 rounds per 4lbs jug.

With the costs going up, you are losing money.

I made back the cost of my press in about a month

 

[jhrosier]

You can start handloading without spending a weeks pay.
This is all good useable equipment, not top shelf, but entirely adequate:

Lee Reloader press 18.99
Lee dies 18.99
Lee dippers 6.99
Lee loading manual 15.99
total: 60.96

How many boxes of .223 do you have to load to justify this small outlay?

If you are shooting any of the bigbore pistol cartridges, such as .44 mag or .45 Colt, you will pay for the setup in about 200 rounds!

 

[TonyDedo]

I just started reloading - my costs come to 0.10/round for .45ACP FMJ.

However, the initial investment (Dillon 650, accessories, components, etc) was around $1000.

What I've been told is that I won't save money reloading, I'll just be able to shoot more - I get the idea that it's very true.

 

[codenamepaul]

I found the set-up cost was more than I thought, but I went for a couple of single stage presses and 2 powder measures. Loading for the big 50 is what sent me over the edge. I figured I'd load for everything else I shot too. So now I load .308, 30-06, 40S&W, 7mm Mag, .223, and .50BMG. Been cleaning brass since Dec to get all my saved brass clean.

Sent my first 20 rounds of .223 down range a few weeks ago. They all went bang.
Follow the recipe and don't mess around.Yet....

 

[Scrivener]

You need to either clean cases or get carbide dies; I do both. I don't trust dippers; I use a powder thrower and a scale. You need to include them in your calculations.

Don't forget calipers - you should be measuring cartridge and case length.

Single-stage press? You need loading blocks (cheap) to keep cases in order for each separate step; charging, bullet seating, crimping.

There is also the time factor. All of these should be included in your calculations, yet seem to be overlooked.

 

[jhrosier]

You need to either clean cases or get carbide dies; I do both. I don't trust dippers; I use a powder thrower and a scale. You need to include them in your calculations.

Don't forget calipers - you should be measuring cartridge and case length.

Single-stage press? You need loading blocks (cheap) to keep cases in order for each separate step; charging, bullet seating, crimping.

There is also the time factor. All of these should be included in your calculations, yet seem to be overlooked.

For cleaning: Vinegar and detergent bath with vigorous agitation after decapping. Dry in the sun.

Dippers are not very high tech but folks have used the method for centuries.

Cheapo Chinese calipers are about $20. Good point, I'd forgotten.

Single stage press falls under adequate and cheap. Besides, you will use it later for decapping and bullet seating after you have sprung for a Rockchucker.

A scrap length of 2x12 and a half inch spade bit in the old Black-n-dekker will make a dandy loading block.

I didn't say that you couldn't spend a weeks pay getting set up. I said that you didn't have to.

 

[adweisbe]

.45 acp cost around $.10 a round give or take, depending on powder and bullets.

using lead is less, JHP more.

I usually firgure .08 for the bullet for plated
$.02 for the primer.
Case are free at the range.
and 231 powder lasts so long that I don't factor it in, you get like 5500 rounds per 4lbs jug.

With the costs going up, you are losing money.

I made back the cost of my press in about a month

That is also my cost for .45. It may be going up to 11 or 12 cents when I have to order new primers and bullets. Plated is already up to 9.6 cents and primers are 2.2 cents for me. My moly bullets are only 5.6 cents.

 

[TY43215]

Good info so far except one thing I disagree with. Brass is not free. There is a cost that needs to be associated with it in order to get a true cost per round. At some point you have to buy brass whether it is for match loads or that you can't scrounge any it still has a cost.

Here is a place to calculate by changing the prices you pay and the components
you use.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

 

[Adam_MA]

That's a cool calc. I disagree about the brass though. I am able to pick up enough pistol brass that is in reloadable condition that I do not have to buy any.

If I did have to pay for it, after how many reloadings of that brass do you consider it paid for, and not have to add it into the cost again?

Either way, thanks again for that calculator, here are my results for 45ACP

Cost / round $ 0.095
Cost / 50 $ 4.74
Cost / 1000 $ 94.71

 

[Scrivener]

For cleaning: Vinegar and detergent bath with vigorous agitation after decapping. Dry in the sun.

Dippers are not very high tech but folks have used the method for centuries.

Cheapo Chinese calipers are about $20. Good point, I'd forgotten.

Single stage press falls under adequate and cheap. Besides, you will use it later for decapping and bullet seating after you have sprung for a Rockchucker.

A scrap length of 2x12 and a half inch spade bit in the old Black-n-dekker [sic]will make a dandy loading block.

I didn't say that you couldn't spend a weeks pay getting set up. I said that you didn't have to.

1. Cleaning AFTER decapping means running dirty brass through the die. Given the cheap dies suggested, they aren't carbide.

Result: Scratched and scored dies that scratch and score your cases.

2. Dippers have worked and will continue to do so. However, they are NOT well suited to working up loads and can be tedious to use reliably. Remember, you are scooping out propellant, not coffee. Accuracy counts.

3. Which part of "cheapo, Chinese calipers" do you find disturbing? Rings two out three alarms for me.....

4. A Rock Chucker IS a single-stage press.
If you're going to move up, get a progressive and become efficient.

5. Scrap wood can be used for a loading block, IF you use an appropriate bit. For how little the real blocks cost, why bother?


Cast lead is cheap, but smokey. I've switched to Poly coated bullets. About the same cost and MUCH cleaner. Little smoke; no fouling.

 

[bpm990d]

You may also need to do some case trimming at some point.

B

 

[Adam_MA]

If you are looking to get into reloading inexpensively, and you are starting with nothing, here are some suggestions.

Press kit

Dies

Calipers

Case trimmer

Reloading tray (should have 2)

Tumbler

Reloading Manual

Total: $247.40

There are some other things that are nice to have, and make the process go a bit faster, and easier. It is a bit of out of pocket expense to get started, but you could potentially pay yourself back for this entire kit, with the first 1500 rounds you reload. I'm sure you could do it more inexpensively if you tried, but you will frustrate yourself, and being frustrated while reloading is something that can have deadly results. You don't need the most expensive of every tool there is, but you do need to have the right ones.

 

[tele_mark]

You forgot the scale. I started with the Lee Safety Scale at $20, but don't recommend it due to the time it takes to make a measurement. I've been using this one and am very happy:

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=713372

 

[Adam_MA]

Nope I didn't forget the scale, it's in the press package, along with a hand primer, and powder dispenser.

I am still using my Lee scale. Once you get used to using it, it is rather quick.

 

[SnakeEye]

this is probobly a stupid question, but do i need to have a press for every caliber? or can i just switch dies and use the same press/machine? (rifle vs pistol ammo in the same machine as well)
awefull lot of up front equipment costs for a multi caliber operation if not.

16940 .223 Rem. / 5.56mm -- XL 650 489.95
21081 XL 650 Large Rifle Casefeeder 194.95
21044 Powdercheck System 63.95
16306 Low Powder Sensor 39.95
22052 Strong Mount for XL 650 only 36.95
22214 Bullet Tray 35.95 35.95 Remove
15064 XL 650 Video Instruction Manual 5.95

Subtotal: 867.65
Shipping: 19.99

Total:* 887.64

 

[Scrivener]

Of COURSE you can use the same press - unless you're loading some of the larger rifle calibers, in which case certain presses won't work. My 550 handles .223; it won't take a .30-'06.

The issue is travel height; Dillons are designed primarily for handgun calibers. Rock Chuckers, etc., will handle pretty much anything this side of a .50 BMG.

 

[Gammon]

Good info so far except one thing I disagree with. Brass is not free. There is a cost that needs to be associated with it in order to get a true cost per round. At some point you have to buy brass whether it is for match loads or that you can't scrounge any it still has a cost.

Here is a place to calculate by changing the prices you pay and the components
you use.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

I shoot mostly .40 in my P-16. When the .40 first came out I bought 1000 cases; that was almost 20 years ago. Since then I have never bought a case. This brass is FREE on the ground at your local range.

I am loading 155 swc lead in .40 for about a nickel a round. No doubt this will go up when I make my next component buy. If you want to cut your costs you must be willing to work at it. Buy everything in bulk and get together with your friends to get the max discount from the manufacturer or wholesaler. I try to patronize local shops, FS is a great organization, but you can't save money buying at retail prices.

 

[Scrivener]

I shoot mostly .40 in my P-16.

I would hope so, as that's what it's chambered for.

When the .40 first came out I bought 1000 cases; that was almost 20 years ago. Since then I have never bought a case. This brass is FREE on the ground at your local range.

Especially if you have access to a range used by the local constabulary. I have LOTS of once-fired, nickle-plated brass courtesy of the Local Constabulary, complete with trays and boxes.

Buy everything in bulk and get together with your friends to get the max discount from the manufacturer or wholesaler. I try to patronize local shops, FS is a great organization, but you can't save money buying at retail prices.

True. However, if you buy in bulk, even your local retailer may cut you a break. Mine does.

 

[jhrosier]

1. Cleaning AFTER decapping means running dirty brass through the die. Given the cheap dies suggested, they aren't carbide.

Result: Scratched and scored dies that scratch and score your cases.

2. Dippers have worked and will continue to do so. However, they are NOT well suited to working up loads and can be tedious to use reliably. Remember, you are scooping out propellant, not coffee. Accuracy counts.

3. Which part of "cheapo, Chinese calipers" do you find disturbing? Rings two out three alarms for me.....

4. A Rock Chucker IS a single-stage press.
If you're going to move up, get a progressive and become efficient.

5. Scrap wood can be used for a loading block, IF you use an appropriate bit. For how little the real blocks cost, why bother?


Cast lead is cheap, but smokey. I've switched to Poly coated bullets. About the same cost and MUCH cleaner. Little smoke; no fouling.

1. I forgot: Lee universal decapping die $6.99

3. Cheapo Chinese calipers tend to be +/- .002". This is not accurate enough for precision machining but is adequate for measuring COL or case length.

Efficiency is not why I handload. I load for the cost savings and the opportunity to taylor the loads to my needs. I also take great pleasure from the use of simple hand tools to build usefull things. When I had a lot less money and a lot more time, I've made decapping punches by grinding down the end of an old awl and a block to hold the case from a scrap of hardwood. I have made a simple case trimmer for the .50 BMG by copying the design of the Lee tool and neck sizing dies for obsolete rifle calibers by drilling and polishing a hole in a piece of scrap steel. Sometimes I make things that I cannot find or afford, and sometimes just for the satisfaction of solving a problem without throwing money at it.
I once made a complete set of tools for handloading the .577 Snyder cartridge, using just hand tools and scraps of steel and aluminum that I scavenged. Then I relined the primer pockets in a few berdan cases to take boxer primers. The only tool that I bought was a mould to cast bullets.
The 1858 Snyder-Enfield carbine was a hoot to shoot, with a 480 gr bullet and about 70 gr black powder.
I don't lay any claim to being specialy talented, or extra smart. Sometimes these ventures have not worked out the way that I planned and I have had to remake things that just didn't turn out very well. I grew up in a time when kids were expected to make their own fun and I guess that I just never stopped.
Btw, you can start handloading for a lot less than a weeks pay, and have a lot of fun doing it. You can also fit a complete handloading outfit, and a couple boxes of ammo, in to a 30 cal ammo can.

 

[TY43215]

I shoot mostly .40 in my P-16. When the .40 first came out I bought 1000 cases; that was almost 20 years ago. Since then I have never bought a case. This brass is FREE on the ground at your local range.

I am loading 155 swc lead in .40 for about a nickel a round. No doubt this will go up when I make my next component buy. If you want to cut your costs you must be willing to work at it. Buy everything in bulk and get together with your friends to get the max discount from the manufacturer or wholesaler. I try to patronize local shops, FS is a great organization, but you can't save money buying at retail prices.

I guess that is where we differ. Although I have a lot of brass I use over and over again, it has a value. As far as range brass for 40, Until I got the EGW die recently, I would not shoot Glock fired brass.

At .69 a pound as scrap, brass has a value. Anyone disagreeing with that, I will take all the brass you have and scrap it to buy new.

I have buckets of brass for everything I shoot but for calculation purposes, I use a value. If you really want to be precise, you should also figure labor

I don't reload to "save money" I reload because I enjoy it and because I like the finished product. I would be much better off going out working those hours and buying new ammo.

 

[C-pher]

One time I worked it out what it cost. I took what I bought for brass, subtracted an estimate on what I thought it was worth after I took out the cost of heads, primers and powder.. The remaining cost was what my new factory brass cost.

I took my cost for powder, primers and such, minus the cost of the press. I also took the cost of a box of .45 at the shop and worked out that cost.

It worked out to about 28 cents a bang for factory. I figured out by how many rounds of .45 I get from a pound, I was down to about 7 cents a bang.


As I also enjoy the task of reloading, it's both a cost savings and meditative process for me.

Like Scrivener, I picked up my setup at a cost that was too good not to pass up. For a short 400 bucks, I got my 550B set up with one caliber, and Electionic scale, crap loads of spare parts, a bullet puller, a very nice set of calipers, the large Dillon Vibrating brass cleaner, the large media seperator and bin, as well as several pounds of powder and primers. When I looked up everything in the catalog, it was well over 1300 dollars worth of Dillon equipment. And it was all in their boxes. He was an old guy, that was given the press as a gift...he didn't want it and put it in the Want Advertiser. For some reason, I just picked one up that day. It worked out for me...

 

[Scrivener]

I once made a complete set of tools for handloading the .577 Snyder cartridge, using just hand tools and scraps of steel and aluminum that I scavenged. Then I relined the primer pockets in a few berdan cases to take boxer primers. The only tool that I bought was a mould to cast bullets. The 1858 Snyder-Enfield carbine was a hoot to shoot, with a 480 gr bullet and about 70 gr black powder.

Then my hat's off to you. I don't have the time or tools to fabricate loading equipment. Rifle shooters can spend that much time on a load; they shoot less in one month than a pistol competitor will at one match.

Note that you can tailor a load just as well on a progressive; it's the research and staggered loads that constitute the tailoring - once you determine how many grains of what propellant, it's simply a matter of cranking it out.

OH - I have the successor to your Snyder; a Martini-Henry Mk. IV.

 

[Patriot]

Of COURSE you can use the same press - unless you're loading some of the larger rifle calibers, in which case certain presses won't work. My 550 handles .223; it won't take a .30-'06.

Damn,

Someone forgot to tell me that my 550 won't do 30-06. I guess I'll have to
let my Dillon know.

I'm a little (OK, a lot) anal about reloading so I did some stuff manually. I
cleaned, lubed, de-primed and sized, then cleaned the lubed cases again.

Unfortunately I also purchased extruded IMR powder and the Dillon powder
setup isn't very good with extruded powder so I had to hand load the powder.
Next time I will get different powder to be able to use the Dillon. Other than
that, bullet seating and crimping was no problem.

Why can't you use the Dillon?

TBP

 

[Scrivener]

If you can do .30-'06 on your 550, go to it. I know it supposedly can handle 120 calibers, but I see nothing that large listed on the Dillon site. In fact, the 550 page shows only handgun calibers (albeit about 20% of the 120 claimed).

My .223's clear OK; placing a 168 gr. SP on an '06 case looks improbable to me. I load so little in that caliber, it's worth it to me to use a trickler and a Rock Chucker.

 

[jhrosier]

....

OH - I have the successor to your Snyder; a Martini-Henry Mk. IV.

Way cool!
I've only fired a couple dozen rounds through the 577/450 Martini but it was another fun gun to shoot. At the time, I was more interested on the Snyder and an old '86 Winchester in 45-70. Some of the guys had a local gunsmith make stainless steel everlasting cartridges for the Martini. You would just have one cartridge case and load it for each shot on the range. The cases were bottlenecked on the outside but the powder chamber was straight, like the 45-70, with a lip or shoulder inside to seat the bullet against. Because these steel cartridges didn't expand to seal the chamber, they were hand fittled for minimum clearance for your rifle.
It is a lot slower paced hobby to shoot the oldtimers than modern pistol competition, and the methods of loading reflect this. There is as much satisfaction spending an afternoon on the range loading and firing 25 shots as firing several hundred through a modern gun for many people. Making tools like bullet seaters and priming tools is just another part of the game. One fellow found that he could set a pair of sewing machine needles in the end of a brass rod and cut off the points to make a handy decapper for berdan primed cases. It took a little patience to get the pins through the flash holes but worked well enough with a short straight case like the .577 Snyder.
There are still a few that load their rifle ammo with the classic Lee loader or the Lyman 310 tool. They can fit their entire reloading outfit in a 30 cal ammo can.

 

[Patriot]

If you can do .30-'06 on your 550, go to it. I know it supposedly can handle 120 calibers, but I see nothing that large listed on the Dillon site. In fact, the 550 page shows only handgun calibers (albeit about 20% of the 120 claimed).

My .223's clear OK; placing a 168 gr. SP on an '06 case looks improbable to me. I load so little in that caliber, it's worth it to me to use a trickler and a Rock Chucker.

From the Dillon page on 550B:

"More RL 550s have been sold than any other progressive machine in the world. And for good reason. The RL 550B's versatility is
almost unlimited. It will load over 120 different rifle and pistol calibers. Its quick change toolhead allows the user to change calibers
without having to readjust dies."

Here is the link to the Dillon 30-06 Dies:

http://dillonprecision.com/template/p.cfm?maj=47&min=0&dyn=1&

I agree. If I had a single stage press I would do them on that instead of the
Dillon. I have reloaded 150gn, 165gn, and 180gn Hornady on the press,
round nose and spitzer. Although I am now using RCBS dies (two die set), I
recently got a set of Dillon 30-06 dies (three die set) to be able to do the
entire round on the press. I'll let you know how I make out.

 

[PistolPete]

He was an old guy, that was given the press as a gift...he didn't want it and put it in the Want Advertiser. .

Hey, I think I tried buying that setup. Was he located in NH???