Recommendations of MA Firearm Lawyers?

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duza9999

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Good afternoon everyone, I’ve got a really particular question I’m looking for interpretation on. Does anyone have any good lawyers that specialize in MA state firearm law they could recommend? Hope everyone is doing well, Thank you-Mat
 
Not that I expect you to share, but the type of question will determine which of the Attorneys is better. If you are dealing with LTC issues, restrictions, denials, etc than I would say Jason Guida. If you are dealing with criminal related intersecting with firearms then I would say Neil Tassel. Even saying firearms attorney is not specific enough in this backward state. Jason was an insider with the FRB and that gives him some advantages for dealing with licensing. Neil I consider highly proficient on the criminal side of things.
 
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CrackPot said:
Not that I expect you to share, but the type of question will determine which of the Attorneys is better. If you are dealing with LTC issues, restrictions, denials, etc than I would say Jason Guida. If you are dealing with criminal related intersecting with firearms then I would say Neil Tassel. Even saying firearms attorney is not specific enough in this backward state. Jason was an insider with the FRB and that gives him some advantages for dealing with licensing. Neil I consider highly proficient on the criminal side of things.
Click to expand...
It’s a weird specific law interpretation question, I don’t mind sharing the question itself as well. Chapter 269 section 10 has a clause on machine guns saying this

“(c) Whoever, except as provided by law, possesses a machine gun, as defined in section one hundred and twenty-one of chapter one hundred and forty, without permission under section one hundred and thirty-one of said chapter one hundred and forty; or whoever owns, possesses or carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle, a sawed-off shotgun, as defined in said section one hundred and twenty-one of said chapter one hundred and forty, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for life, or for any term of years provided that any sentence imposed under the provisions of this paragraph shall be subject to the minimum requirements of paragraph (a).”

It references section 131 of chapter 140 which as we know references the state MG license, the “green card”.

(o) No person shall be issued a license to carry or possess a machine gun in the commonwealth, except that a licensing authority or the colonel of state police may issue a machine gun license to:

(i) a firearm instructor certified by the municipal police training committee for the sole purpose of firearm instruction to police personnel;

(ii) a bona fide collector of firearms upon application or upon application for renewal of such license.

That is all well understood.

However section 121 of chapter 140 has this clause.

“The provisions of sections 122 to 129D, inclusive, and sections 131, 131A, 131B and 131E shall not apply to:

(A) any firearm, rifle or shotgun manufactured in or prior to the year 1899;

(B) any replica of any firearm, rifle or shotgun described in clause (A) if such replica: (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; and

(C) manufacturers or wholesalers of firearms, rifles, shotguns or machine guns.”


It would seem that contrary to the accepted doctrine, a State dealer license should suffice and exempt one from the requirement of needing a MG license to possess them for official business purposes on a FFL.

I recently submitted for a 08 Importer license in Fall River to bring in ammo from international sources after my old importer shut down (whom I had a few successful shipments already with and thus know what I am getting into). However I’m also trying to dabble into LE and Federal contracts, and while I can bring in factory SBS’s and SBR’s without any trouble, I’d like to be able to offer MG’s as well.
 
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duza9999 said:
It’s a weird specific law interpretation question, I don’t mind sharing the question itself as well. Chapter 269 section 10 has a clause on machine guns saying this

“(c) Whoever, except as provided by law, possesses a machine gun, as defined in section one hundred and twenty-one of chapter one hundred and forty, without permission under section one hundred and thirty-one of said chapter one hundred and forty; or whoever owns, possesses or carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle, a sawed-off shotgun, as defined in said section one hundred and twenty-one of said chapter one hundred and forty, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for life, or for any term of years provided that any sentence imposed under the provisions of this paragraph shall be subject to the minimum requirements of paragraph (a).”

It references section 131 of chapter 140 which as we know references the state MG license, the “green card”.

(o) No person shall be issued a license to carry or possess a machine gun in the commonwealth, except that a licensing authority or the colonel of state police may issue a machine gun license to:

(i) a firearm instructor certified by the municipal police training committee for the sole purpose of firearm instruction to police personnel;

(ii) a bona fide collector of firearms upon application or upon application for renewal of such license.

That is all well understood.

However section 121 of chapter 140 has this clause.

“The provisions of sections 122 to 129D, inclusive, and sections 131, 131A, 131B and 131E shall not apply to:

(A) any firearm, rifle or shotgun manufactured in or prior to the year 1899;

(B) any replica of any firearm, rifle or shotgun described in clause (A) if such replica: (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; and

(C) manufacturers or wholesalers of firearms, rifles, shotguns or machine guns.”


It would seem that contrary to the accepted doctrine, a State dealer license should suffice and exempt one from the requirement of needing a MG license to possess them for official business purposes on a FFL.
Click to expand...

If you get a lawyer to give you a firm answer, let me know.

If you are an 07 FFL manufacturing machine guns, you are not able to get a green card given the two valid reasons, instructor of state police of bona fide collector. This leads one to conclude that the MA dealers license is sufficient for a 07 to possess a machine gun. The conventional wisdom is that this covers your place of business, the manufacture of the machine gun and the steps necessary to sell/transfer. Taking it to the range for some mag dumps would be outside this. Taking it out of state for some fun and bring it back is outside this. Packaging it and dropping off for shipping would be ok.

I am an 07/SOT FFL with a dealers license and I have a green card since I am a MA resident and can get one. Therefore I do not have any skin in the game here. But I always tell other FFLs here at the Mill that *I* would never leave the building with a machine gun if I did not also have a green card. Being the test case and WRONG is a life sentence. IANAL but in discussing this with lawyers and other knowledgeable FFLs, this is the conclusion we have collectively come to.

We all might also know some 07/SOT that do not have a green card (wrong town or wrong state of residence) and they do take them to the range.
 
CrackPot said:
If you get a lawyer to give you a firm answer, let me know.

If you are an 07 FFL manufacturing machine guns, you are not able to get a green card given the two valid reasons, instructor of state police of bona fide collector. This leads one to conclude that the MA dealers license is sufficient for a 07 to possess a machine gun. The conventional wisdom is that this covers your place of business, the manufacture of the machine gun and the steps necessary to sell/transfer. Taking it to the range for some mag dumps would be outside this. Taking it out of state for some fun and bring it back is outside this. Packaging it and dropping off for shipping would be ok.

I am an 07/SOT FFL with a dealers license and I have a green card since I am a MA resident and can get one. Therefore I do not have any skin in the game here. But I always tell other FFLs here at the Mill that *I* would never leave the building with a machine gun if I did not also have a green card. Being the test case and WRONG is a life sentence. IANAL but in discussing this with lawyers and other knowledgeable FFLs, this is the conclusion we have collectively come to.

We all might also know some 07/SOT that do not have a green card (wrong town or wrong state of residence) and they do take them to the range.
Click to expand...
Gotcha, yeah I’d try for the green card, but I think I’d have a better chance for pigs to fly than me getting a one.
I‘m 21 going on 22 and the business is located in Fall River. Even if the chief would issue a green card I don’t think he’d issue it to someone of my age.

Nor does that get into the question if a chief could issue to a out of stater (I’m from RI) that operates a business in their jurisdiction like they can with a LTC.
 
Sorry to go off topic

(B) any replica of any firearm, rifle or shotgun described in clause (A) if such replica: (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; and

Does that mean you can have a replica machine gun made prior to 1899 if it shoots 22lr?
 
LuvDog said:
Sorry to go off topic

(B) any replica of any firearm, rifle or shotgun described in clause (A) if such replica: (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; and

Does that mean you can have a replica machine gun made prior to 1899 if it shoots 22lr?
Click to expand...

If you have a lead on a machine gun made pre-1899 that shoots .22LR, let Ian of Forgotten Weapons know because I'm thinking no such thing exists. Machine guns were very expensive pre-1899 and were cutting edge technology in chamberings like .303, 8x57, x54r, .30-40, etc. Simply put, its extremely unlikely that anyone would've made a machine gun in .22LR back then.
 
C. Stockwell said:
If you have a lead on a machine gun made pre-1899 that shoots .22LR, let Ian of Forgotten Weapons know because I'm thinking no such thing exists. Machine guns were very expensive pre-1899 and were cutting edge technology in chamberings like .303, 8x57, x54r, .30-40, etc. Simply put, its extremely unlikely that anyone would've made a machine gun in .22LR back then.
Click to expand...
Perhaps poster meant something like the Tipmann repros that were scaled down to 22lr...
 
Mesatchornug said:
Perhaps poster meant something like the Tipmann repros that were scaled down to 22lr...
Click to expand...

Right, but those aren't replicas of anything pre-1899, they're usually Browning 1917s. Tippmann makes a 9x19 Gattling gun that uses Glock happy-sticks, but... 9x19.

You'd need something like a .22 Maxim gun or Colt-Browning M1895.
 
duza9999 said:
It’s a weird specific law interpretation question, I don’t mind sharing the question itself as well. Chapter 269 section 10 has a clause on machine guns saying this

“(c) Whoever, except as provided by law, possesses a machine gun, as defined in section one hundred and twenty-one of chapter one hundred and forty, without permission under section one hundred and thirty-one of said chapter one hundred and forty; or whoever owns, possesses or carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle, a sawed-off shotgun, as defined in said section one hundred and twenty-one of said chapter one hundred and forty, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for life, or for any term of years provided that any sentence imposed under the provisions of this paragraph shall be subject to the minimum requirements of paragraph (a).”

It references section 131 of chapter 140 which as we know references the state MG license, the “green card”.

(o) No person shall be issued a license to carry or possess a machine gun in the commonwealth, except that a licensing authority or the colonel of state police may issue a machine gun license to:

(i) a firearm instructor certified by the municipal police training committee for the sole purpose of firearm instruction to police personnel;

(ii) a bona fide collector of firearms upon application or upon application for renewal of such license.

That is all well understood.

However section 121 of chapter 140 has this clause.

“The provisions of sections 122 to 129D, inclusive, and sections 131, 131A, 131B and 131E shall not apply to:

(A) any firearm, rifle or shotgun manufactured in or prior to the year 1899;

(B) any replica of any firearm, rifle or shotgun described in clause (A) if such replica: (i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition; or (ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; and

(C) manufacturers or wholesalers of firearms, rifles, shotguns or machine guns.”


It would seem that contrary to the accepted doctrine, a State dealer license should suffice and exempt one from the requirement of needing a MG license to possess them for official business purposes on a FFL.

I recently submitted for a 08 Importer license in Fall River to bring in ammo from international sources after my old importer shut down (whom I had a few successful shipments already with and thus know what I am getting into). However I’m also trying to dabble into LE and Federal contracts, and while I can bring in factory SBS’s and SBR’s without any trouble, I’d like to be able to offer MG’s as well.
Click to expand...

I want my loophole!
 
duza9999 said:
Gotcha, yeah I’d try for the green card, but I think I’d have a better chance for pigs to fly than me getting a one.
I‘m 21 going on 22 and the business is located in Fall River. Even if the chief would issue a green card I don’t think he’d issue it to someone of my age.

Nor does that get into the question if a chief could issue to a out of stater (I’m from RI) that operates a business in their jurisdiction like they can with a LTC.
Click to expand...
If you are a non-resident, the local chief doesn't issue it. The FRB issues non-resident LTC's, and it sounds like you'd have good reason to have one.
 
Qwikdraw45 said:
If you are a non-resident, the local chief doesn't issue it. The FRB issues non-resident LTC's, and it sounds like you'd have good reason to have one.
Click to expand...
Unless you own a business. Then you can get a resident LTC in the town of your business, which it sounds like is the OP's situation
 
drgrant said:
Dude a C&R bound to your house is what, $30? Get the green card. If you can't get a GC between the flex of your FFL and your 03, you have exceptionally bad luck.
Click to expand...
I get that and I would love to! However there are a few different issues in my particular case working against me in that department.

First it's debatable even if a chief has the ability to issue a green card to an out of state resident, secondly even if he could, does the chief issue to the general public? Third would my C&R from Rhode Island count, or do I need a new one at my business address. And even if the answer to all of that would the chief issue to me a 21 year old?

Though it's certainly worth a try, I just have a bad gut feeling fall river is going to laugh at me saying "are you out of your mind".
 
wilson911 said:
You're wasting your talent...get thee to a law school.
Click to expand...
I appreciate the sentiment! But I could never survive law school, or even collage lol, I'm very much a self taught person and never did well in school other than history & English.
 
duza9999 said:
I get that and I would love to! However there are a few different issues in my particular case working against me in that department.

First it's debatable even if a chief has the ability to issue a green card to an out of state resident, secondly even if he could, does the chief issue to the general public? Third would my C&R from Rhode Island count, or do I need a new one at my business address. And even if the answer to all of that would the chief issue to me a 21 year old?

Though it's certainly worth a try, I just have a bad gut feeling fall river is going to laugh at me saying "are you out of your mind".
Click to expand...

A 03 is personal and not to be used for commercial purposes; thus, you wouldn't get one with a business address. The 03 would be in your name personally and would reflect your residence, not your business.

How this all jives with FRPD/FRB... I don't know.
 

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