Range report 12ga home defense shells-Question

[News Shooter]

OK, I've never shot anything but bird shot before, but I picked up a couple of boxes of buck shot at Concord yesterday and went to the range with a Winchester 1200 Defender.

The first ones I shot were Fiocchi 2 3/4 Reduced recoil 9 pellet 00 buck

I was expecting a huge slam but the recoil really wasn't bad at all.

Then I switched to Federal Personal Defense Low Recoil 1 1/4 oz shot, 2 shot, (whatever that means)

Bam!!...that was painful. Now, my question is.....how come? Why was that stuff more powerful than the 00 buck?

Thanks

 

[firtree]

Really the diameter of the shot is not an issue here. Any shot column
is essentially a slug as it leaves the bore of a shotgun barrel. In general,
only the force and impulse of the propellant, coupled with the
mass of the shot + wads + buffers , is in play.

F

 

[News Shooter]

Thanks, I get that part, but I'm wondering is what is it about the second set of loads that created a more powerful recoil than the 00 buck? How can I tell the difference on the box?
Thanks

 

[vellnueve]

You can't, you need to try them all out.

 

[News Shooter]

You can't, you need to try them all out.

OK, I figured that was what was going on. Thanks much

 

[hminsky]

Yeah, I was just firing some S&B slugs and 00 and #4 shot today, and the slugs had the least recoil, and the #4 shot had the sharpest.

BTW, I have a Knoxx recoil reducing stock on my 870, and it makes all the difference in the world. Nothing is painful to shoot now, and the slugs are actually relatively mild.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

OK, I've never shot anything but bird shot before, but I picked up a couple of boxes of buck shot at Concord yesterday and went to the range with a Winchester 1200 Defender.

The first ones I shot were Fiocchi 2 3/4 Reduced recoil 9 pellet 00 buck

I was expecting a huge slam but the recoil really wasn't bad at all.

Then I switched to Federal Personal Defense Low Recoil 1 1/4 oz shot, 2 shot, (whatever that means)

Bam!!...that was painful. Now, my question is.....how come? Why was that stuff more powerful than the 00 buck?

Thanks

Did either of the boxes happen to list a velocity?

For the mathematically inclined, the formula for power factor is calculated by multiplying the weight of the projectile in grains times the velocity in feet-per-second. This gives a 6 digit figure, and the last three digits are dropped for convenience.

There are 7000 grains to a pound, so a one ounce load is equal to 437.5 grain bullet, a 1 1/8 ounce load is equal to a 492 grain bullet, and a 1 1/4 ounce laod is equal to a 546 grain bullet.

I've got a box of Federal Upland Load Shotshells that's marked as having 1 1/4 ounces of #6 shot, and a muzzle velocity of 1220 fps.

Thats 546 X 1220 = 666120 or a power factor of 666.

A light skeet load, say 1 oz moving at 1100 fps has a power factor of 481. A one oz rifled slug screaming along at 1600 fps has a power factor of 700. A 2 oz turkey load at 1100 fps has a power factor of 962.

For comparison purposes, a 308 with a 180 grain bullet and a mv of 2600 fps has a power factor of 468 and a 375 H&H Magnum, with a 275 grain bullet moving at 2700 fps has a power factor of 742.

Regards
John

 

[KMaurer]

The Federal Personal Defense Low Recoil load contains 1-1/4 ounces of #2 birdshot (pellet diameter 0.15", roughly 112 pellets). The 1998 Federal catalog lists the muzzle velocity as 1140fps.

The Fiocchi load contains 9 00 pellets (pellet diameter 0.33", roughly 1-1/8 ounces assuming lead shot). Muzzle velocity is about 1150fps, again assuming lead shot.

Besides the simple mass and muzzle velocity of shot or bullet, recoil also depends on the time-pressure profile of the discharge, particularly the peak pressure. That's the reason that a .40 S&W produces more perceived recoil than a 9mm or .45 of comparable mass and velocity. I don't know what sort of powder each of the above loads uses, but I suppose it's possible that there may be differences in the above loads' peak pressures that affect the perceived recoil.

At near contact distances, the shot is essentially a single mass, so the size of the individual shot is really immaterial when considering penetration and wound trauma. Once the shot has a chance to disperse a bit, then penetration depends on the size and weight of individual shot. For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates #1 buckshot as the most effective size shot. It's the smallest that achieves consistent 12" penetration. Smaller shot such as #2 birdshot don't penetrate consistently, while larger size shot such as 00 buck have less area to produce a wound channel and also tend to over-penetrate interior walls.

Ken

 

[Jose]

Ken hit the nail on the head.

As to whose advertising claims to believe, you can't. What Federal thinks is low recoil is not the same as what Fiocchi, Remington, PMC, Winchester, or anyone else thinks.

 

[SKS Ray]

So does anyone have a preference on a low recoil home defense 12 gauge round?

 

[FPrice]

So does anyone have a preference on a low recoil home defense 12 gauge round?

Federal Tactical Buckshot.

 

[WVBob]

Any #4 Field load 2 3/4 in. in 12GA or 20GA with a full choke. 2 1/2 or 2 3/4 dram load. Remember most shots in a home are under 20 feet and you don't need or want a high power load to go through two or three walls. You do want three or four other shots. Set up a target at 20 feet and try some loads. Sheet Rock is nice for the test.

 

[TonyD]

Any #4 Field load 2 3/4 in. in 12GA or 20GA with a full choke. 2 1/2 or 2 3/4 dram load. Remember most shots in a home are under 20 feet and you don't need or want a high power load to go through two or three walls. You do want three or four other shots. Set up a target at 20 feet and try some loads. Sheet Rock is nice for the test.

Are you privvy to some information that was overlooked by the intensive testing by the International Wound Ballistics Association?

 

[Gammon]

My preference for a home defense load is not low recoil. I tried some S&B buckshot loads at a pin match and loved them. Recoil is pretty stiff but the action on the pins was impressive. These loads use 12 balls instead of the normal 9. the only downside is that they are a little longer than normal and you lose one round capacity in the mag.

 

[WVBob]

Are you privvy to some information that was overlooked by the intensive testing by the International Wound Ballistics Association?

I've see what it can do to a 160 pound deer and 185 pound hog from 14 to 27 feet. Nice hole, dropped them quick, not a lot of rib meat, and it did not do a through and through. It's what I wanted.

 

[TonyD]

I've see what it can do to a 160 pound deer and 185 pound hog from 14 to 27 feet. Nice hole, dropped them quick, not a lot of rib meat, and it did not do a through and through. It's what I wanted.

Yes, I could see how that would completely debunk the IWBA's exhaustive research on the subject.

Just exactly where is it legal to hunt deer with a "#4 field load"?

 

[Jose]

Yes, I could see how that would completely debunk the IWBA's exhaustive research on the subject.

Just exactly where is it legal to hunt deer with a "#4 field load"?

+1

I can bet he broke at least two hunting laws right there. Hell, Ohio and Kansas (where I lived last) do not even allow buckshot to kill deer, let alone GD birdshot....

I too call bullshit on using birdshot of any size as a defensive load.

 

[TonyD]

Here in South GA a shotgun can be used but ONLY with 00 buck. Dogs are still legal to use because undergrowth is so thick your max shot is 20 yards as it crosses the road you're waiting on - and it's not a one shot / one kill deal. Not my way hunting.