PROTECTING AMERICA’S SCHOOLS A U.S. SECRET SERVICE ANALYSIS OF TARGETED SCHOOL VIOLENCE

[MaverickNH]

For the report https://www.secretservice.gov/data/protection/ntac/Protecting_Americas_Schools.pdf

For the commentary
View: https://www.npr.org/2019/11/27/782902802/active-shooter-drills-may-not-stop-a-school-shooting-but-this-method-could


“One common source of distress, according to the report, is bullying and ostracism. Four out of five of these attackers were bullied at school, and in most cases the bullying was severe and took place over a long time period. Attackers were much more likely to be victims than perpetrators of bullying, although that was fairly common as well. In the aftermath of the Columbine attack in 1999, in which two Colorado students killed 13 people at their high school and injured more than 20 others before taking their own lives, the Secret Service published its first review of similar incidents. Back then, 71% of attackers had been bullied. Since then, Alathari says, "it's interesting": Despite two decades of anti-bullying legislation, anti-bullying assemblies and anti-bullying curricula in schools, today the incidence is even higher.”

Well, maybe until we sort out that bullying issue we’ve been working on for 20 years, we support more armed teachers/staff at schools. When the killings drop off, we can reconsider those armed teachers/staff...but not until then.

 

[SpaceCritter]

Prevention's great (and worth a pound of cure). But if your security model remains brittle...

 

[headednorth]

The bullying angle isn't much of a surprise, but kids have been bullied since the beginning of time. It wasnt all that long ago when guns were sold over the counter at hardware stores or ordered out of a catalog and dropped off by the mailman. Bullying has always been a fact of life but shootings have become more common as access to guns becomes more restrictive. Something happened somewhere along the line where shooting up your school became a valid option to some kids.

 

[Picton]

"Despite two decades of anti-bullying legislation, anti-bullying assemblies and anti-bullying curricula in schools, today the incidence is even higher.”

I think the difference is the online stuff. The assemblies work; every kid, if asked, can roll their eyes and parrot back the party line on bullying these days, just like they can recite the Pledge of Allegiance. But it has no relevance to them because it's just something else they have to learn in school, unconnected to their online lives.

Klebold and Harris didn't need to worry about likes on Instatweetshitgrambook. The bullying in schools actually IS in decline... because kids don't need to bully each other IN schools anymore. They just do it on their phones now.

 

[FPrice]

It's very difficult to change the "culture" of bullying in our kids when they have so many examples of bullying in the adults around them. Media, real life relationships, woke crowds ganging up on people they don't like.

"Do as I say, not as I do" just does not work very well.

 

[rivet_42]

Two things that have made things worse in recent years:

1. Cyberbulling, as others in this thread have noted. Used to be that bullying was typically confined to the school environment. Nowadays bullying follows kids everywhere and the home is no longer a safe refuge from it.

2. Zero-tolerance policies. A lot of people say this makes it worse. We could all expend a lot of electrons in analyzing just why.

 

[Qwikdraw45]

It's a lack of religion and family. I was physically bullied. I was having issues with my grades. I was mad at my parents (too strict). I wasn't having any luck on the dating scene. I had access to a firearm (in a locked case - but I figured out how to open it). And I wanted to shoot some of those SOB's, BUT - I knew that it was a sin to do so and my family (grandfather - retired cop) and parents would have kicked my ass.

 

[Hustler One]

How ever you look at it, the sad reality is it's only a matter of time before some holy warrior takes out an entire auditorium full of children due to the inaction of parents and local government. Prepare your blame accordingly.

 

[Dadstoys]

I think one of the problems with the bully issue is that the school pretty much does nothing to the bully , but lord help the kid that fights back.
They will be punished.

Even back when I was in grade school , I had an issue with a bully that was turned a blind eye to by one particular teacher.
She saw it, she knew what was going on and chose to ignore it.
When I finally snapped and beat the kid into a ER visit , suddenly it was a big issue and she tried to have me suspended.
The old man was having none of it and threatened to go after her job if she pressed the issue.

When my son was in school there was an out of control kid who routinely was attacking other kids up to and including stabbing another student with a pencil and although the school was well aware of the situation they did zip.
I even went to a meeting with the principal and explained that from here on I've given my kid to defend himself with however much force was needed since they didn't seem to want to deal with it.
I just wanted to get it on the record.
They had every B.S. excuse in the world for not dealing with the situation.
Finally the it came to a head when the little shit put his hands on my sons friend who was a very frail kid dying of cancer .
My son put a pretty bad tune up on the bully.
Nothing much came of it as I think they knew they weren't going to win that one with the previous meeting on the record.

Point being they stand by with their hands in their pockets till the kids being bullied can't take it any more and then go balls out after the kid for fighting back.
You can see where some of these kids might lose it.

 

[not new guy]

I think the problem is with the larger culture. It has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with: (a) the breakdown of traditional values; and (b) the fact that we’re living in a bullshit, social and traditional media-driven fantasy world where you’re supposed to be polished and special (or you’re a failure) and where nobody is accountable for anything. Add in way too many prescription drugs and you get this shit. But yeah, bullying. If we can just control and fix how all kids think and interact with each other these freak outliers will quit going on murderous rampages.

 

[Picton]

In MA, right or wrong, there are laws about these things. In schools, “bullying” is a magic word; the moment a kid says it to any grown-up in a MA public school, there are certain things that MUST happen otherwise the grown-up can go to jail.

It’s called “Phoebe’s Law” and it’s been on the books for many years now, since Phoebe Prince hanged herself.

So if you’re saying kids are complaining of being bullied and that those complaints are reaching a teacher, administrator, lunch lady, or whoever, and NOTHING is getting done about it? In MA? Those adults are placing themselves in serious legal jeopardy by letting it go.

Again, like it or not. It’s the law. And the law is there because adults frequently don’t want to rock the boat. Well, this law says they have to.

 

[Jason Flare]

I remind people how well the DARE program has worked.

 

[looser38]

In MA, right or wrong, there are laws about these things. In schools, “bullying” is a magic word; the moment a kid says it to any grown-up in a MA public school, there are certain things that MUST happen otherwise the grown-up can go to jail.

It’s called “Phoebe’s Law” and it’s been on the books for many years now, since Phoebe Prince hanged herself.

So if you’re saying kids are complaining of being bullied and that those complaints are reaching a teacher, administrator, lunch lady, or whoever, and NOTHING is getting done about it? In MA? Those adults are placing themselves in serious legal jeopardy by letting it go.

Again, like it or not. It’s the law. And the law is there because adults frequently don’t want to rock the boat. Well, this law says they have to.

I couldn't disagree more.
So, you're saying that laws actually prevent people from breaking them?
Schools are gun free zones, but yet we still have school shootings.
No texting while driving, but we all know how effective that is.
Now, handsfree device laws are here. Keep watching, I'm sure that will fix everything.
Etc,etc.
You get my point, I'm sure.

 

[Palladin]

Two things that have made things worse in recent years:

1. Cyberbulling, as others in this thread have noted. Used to be that bullying was typically confined to the school environment. Nowadays bullying follows kids everywhere and the home is no longer a safe refuge from it.

2. Zero-tolerance policies. A lot of people say this makes it worse. We could all expend a lot of electrons in analyzing just why.

This. my son was getting bullied and robbed almost daily in the 7th grade, despite knowing karate and defending himself...it was the climate. we found out about it, met with the vice principal and brought it to a head. I told him I was going to press charges of unarmed robbery against the other kid (who was Nigerian and my son was afraid of him cause he was black). I told my kid he bleeds like everyone else and to drop him the next time it occurred; told the VP that was well...who responded with the zero tolerance BS and said my kid would be suspended for defending himself. I told him "if my kid drops him and you suspend him, I'm buying him a new bike!" The guy was horrified. I told him I grew up in the 60s in East Boston....he had never met anyone like me before.

 

[Picton]

I couldn't disagree more.
So, you're saying that laws actually prevent people from breaking them?
Schools are gun free zones, but yet we still have school shootings.
No texting while driving, but we all know how effective that is.
Now, handsfree device laws are here. Keep watching, I'm sure that will fix everything.
Etc,etc.
You get my point, I'm sure.

When did I say that?

I’m saying that the posts here where people are saying their kids are complaining to “the school” and that nothing’s getting done? Might not be getting the full story somewhere.

If kids complain of bullying and grown-ups hear it, cops get called. If they don’t get called, grown-ups could go to jail. That’s all I’m saying.

 

[Palladin]

When did I say that?

I’m saying that the posts here where people are saying their kids are complaining to “the school” and that nothing’s getting done? Might not be getting the full story somewhere.

If kids complain of bullying and grown-ups hear it, cops get called. If they don’t get called, grown-ups could go to jail. That’s all I’m saying.

What to Do If Your Child's School Doesn't Take Bullying Seriously

Educators can be busy and overwhelmed, but should still take bullying seriously. Here's what to do when no one takes your bullying complaints seriously.

www.verywellfamily.com

 

[namedpipes]

The bullying angle isn't much of a surprise, but kids have been bullied since the beginning of time. It wasnt all that long ago when guns were sold over the counter at hardware stores or ordered out of a catalog and dropped off by the mailman. Bullying has always been a fact of life but shootings have become more common as access to guns becomes more restrictive. Something happened somewhere along the line where shooting up your school became a valid option to some kids.

There were other (and frankly BETTER) options available to a 1970's kid that wants revenge than to a 2010's kid.

There is a cultural change going on. Attitudes towards other people have changed from (at least outward) politeness to thoughtless disregard for anyone else.

Walk through a mall or busy street with younger people around and listen to them. My God it's like a sitcom with a nasty streak of bitterness.

It isn't the availability of guns. It's the PEOPLE that changed and for the worse.

 

[usp45ct]

This. my son was getting bullied and robbed almost daily in the 7th grade, despite knowing karate and defending himself...it was the climate. we found out about it, met with the vice principal and brought it to a head. I told him I was going to press charges of unarmed robbery against the other kid (who was Nigerian and my son was afraid of him cause he was black). I told my kid he bleeds like everyone else and to drop him the next time it occurred; told the VP that was well...who responded with the zero tolerance BS and said my kid would be suspended for defending himself. I told him "if my kid drops him and you suspend him, I'm buying him a new bike!" The guy was horrified. I told him I grew up in the 60s in East Boston....he had never met anyone like me before.

This guy gets it.
Bullying has been around but in my day, it was just at school. You had enough, you threw hands. Win or lose, you went anyways. Most likely, it stopped. These days, it can be done electronically 24/7.
Kids are also softer. Need to not take it personal to much. Kids these days are afraid to fight for fear of reprisals. Funny story below if you care to read.


My daughter was in 1st grade when a boy kicked her in the shin. She told him not to. He did it again and my daughter spit on him. Teacher saw her and took them both to the principals office and called us and the other parents into the office for a chat. I know the other father real well. Great guy. Principal went off about how this was not to be tolerated. I told my daughter not to spit on a boy unless he says he likes you. Next time ball up your fist, urn at the hips and throw a solid jab to the face like this, and I stood up and showed her.

The principal and teacher were horrified and said she will get suspended for that. I said maybe, but I’ll deal with it, but let me guess how this scenario played you. The boy kicker her twice, but the teachers did not see it because they were standing in a circle facing in and bullshitting, pretty much like I see them do all the time instead of walking around.

At that point the other father look at my daughter and said, don’t forget, do not tuck in your thumb when you make a fist. I will hurt your hand forever. He turned to his kid and said we will deal with this later, you’ll be lucky if you can sit down again in a week. You protect people, not hit them. Principal look like someone shit in her mouth and kicker her jaw shut. Speechless!

Like I said, the boys father is a mountain of a man and Italian and a volunteer firefighter in town. His father worked for a family out here as a problem solver in Springfield.

 

[looser38]

When did I say that?

I’m saying that the posts here where people are saying their kids are complaining to “the school” and that nothing’s getting done? Might not be getting the full story somewhere.

If kids complain of bullying and grown-ups hear it, cops get called. If they don’t get called, grown-ups could go to jail. That’s all I’m saying.

O.k.

 

[Me Have ADD]

Mental illness is a real issue. Not too long ago I was riding the T and a homeless guy paced up and down the car 10 times muttering to himself. This guy was nodding his head and moving his hands around, carrying on an entire conversation with himself.

Our society is falling apart from the family unit on up. I don't think playing a violent video game or watching a violent movie turns people into killers. But what does it say as a culture? People are just shittier today and there is less social cohesion and trust.

I have family who teach and it seems like literally every kid has ADD, OCD, Autism or other behavioral issues. A lot of them have divorced parents or the parents are pos as well.

If there was one thing that puts potential school shooters over the edge IMO, it's the SSRI drugs. Pretty much everyone of them use it. Notice at the end of drug commercials thoughts of suicide are,listed as side effects.

 

[SpaceCritter]

Mental illness is a real issue. Not too long ago I was riding the T and a homeless guy paced up and down the car 10 times muttering to himself. This guy was nodding his head and moving his hands around, carrying on an entire conversation with himself.

Um, that could well be me. I generally don't give a shit what you humans think of me.

That said:

Our society is falling apart from the family unit on up. I don't think playing a violent video game or watching a violent movie turns people into killers. But what does it say as a culture? People are just shittier today and there is less social cohesion and trust.

Yes.

I have family who teach and it seems like literally every kid has ADD, OCD, Autism or other behavioral issues. A lot of them have divorced parents or the parents are pos as well.

If there was one thing that puts potential school shooters over the edge IMO, it's the SSRI drugs. Pretty much everyone of them use it. Notice at the end of drug commercials thoughts of suicide are,listed as side effects.

I grew up Aspie long before anyone knew what that was. It was hell. Everyone assumed I was one of you. I'm not.

That said, I had the good fortune of having a pediatrician who ADAMANTLY REFUSED to contemplate medicating me, and wisely advised my folks to do likewise.

 

[Picton]

Access to guns have decreased yet these so called mass shootings are nearly universally done by kids IN SCHOOLS against students and teachers that they have known for years......

Isnt it obvious that modern progressive education establishment is a total/abject failure and is at the root of the problem?

uhh, no.

If it was, then wouldn’t EVERY public school have a shooting problem?

The common denominator isn’t “schools.” If it was, then everybody who went to one would be a suicidal/homicidal maniac. Like a lot of other things, this problem has a lot of roots.

 

[namedpipes]

uhh, no.

If it was, then wouldn’t EVERY public school have a shooting problem?

The common denominator isn’t “schools.” If it was, then everybody who went to one would be a suicidal/homicidal maniac. Like a lot of other things, this problem has a lot of roots.

If all people were literally NPC's (that's the term for the bots in those role playing games, right?) then you might be right. It would just be a matter of finding the "setting" and everyone would go nuts at the same point.

But we aren't, not even the fruitcakes on the left, as much as we like to poke fun at them.

We all have different limits. We all process stimuli and stress in different ways and we all have different breaking points.

What breaks one kid might be a crappy year for another and might be enjoyable to yet another.

Our society is broken.

 

[Jason Flare]

Our society is broken.

SOCIETY!


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1KI3aHxun9M

 

[Picton]

Millions of American kids go to schools. Many hundreds of thousands are bullied.

Not even dozens become shooters.

Sorry. The math doesn’t make sense. If schools were as awful as some claim, MOST Americans would be homicidal maniacs. Look for the causal link someplace else. Do SOME kids feel pissy enough about their schools that they allow themselves to go over the edge? Sure, but so do some employees at corporations. All kinds of people become shooters.

 

[SpaceCritter]

Uhhhh yes......the common denominator is in point of fact the schools

Its not malls

Its not movie theatres

Its not any other place that young people congregate

These kids actively target the schools and kids/teachers that they intimately know to be the targets of their anger/hate/revenge

Well:

- Hurting, f***ed up kids
+
- Schools that are already legally fish-in-a-barrel disarmed free-fire zones
+
- Donks looking for more press to push their make-everyone-their-sheep agenda*
= YAY, more school shootings.

* And I'm not unconvinced they haven't had a hand in "helping" some of these incidents. I just can't prove it presently.

 

[namedpipes]

Millions of American kids go to schools. Many hundreds of thousands are bullied.

Not even dozens become shooters.

Sorry. The math doesn’t make sense. If schools were as awful as some claim, MOST Americans would be homicidal maniacs. Look for the causal link someplace else. Do SOME kids feel pissy enough about their schools that they allow themselves to go over the edge? Sure, but so do some employees at corporations. All kinds of people become shooters.

You're simply wrong. The abuse (and I mean the abuse from the educational system, not even the bullying) is stronger than when we all went to school. More crack. Probably more even in proportion to the the population, but I'm not interested enough to correlate the numbers.

 

[Picton]

You're simply wrong. The abuse (and I mean the abuse from the educational system, not even the bullying) is stronger than when we all went to school. More crack. Probably more even in proportion to the the population, but I'm not interested enough to correlate the numbers.

But the numbers matter. Without numbers, it’s all just feelz.

Right? Don’t we always say that about the antis?

 

[SpaceCritter]

Millions of American kids go to schools. Many hundreds of thousands are bullied.

Not even dozens become shooters.

Sorry. The math doesn’t make sense. If schools were as awful as some claim, MOST Americans would be homicidal maniacs. Look for the causal link someplace else. Do SOME kids feel pissy enough about their schools that they allow themselves to go over the edge? Sure, but so do some employees at corporations. All kinds of people become shooters.

Correct. Most, like me, harbor an instinctive, gut-level hatred for humans. This manifests itself in a number of ways, most of which impact principally in a negative way on the individual (due to impaired interactions with you goddamned shaved apes), but as well as society in general, by way of reduction in economic opportunity due to inability or lack or desire to interact with aforementioned nasty apes, despite whatever many gifts such individual could bring to bear.

 

[Dadstoys]

In MA, right or wrong, there are laws about these things. In schools, “bullying” is a magic word; the moment a kid says it to any grown-up in a MA public school, there are certain things that MUST happen otherwise the grown-up can go to jail.

It’s called “Phoebe’s Law” and it’s been on the books for many years now, since Phoebe Prince hanged herself.

So if you’re saying kids are complaining of being bullied and that those complaints are reaching a teacher, administrator, lunch lady, or whoever, and NOTHING is getting done about it? In MA? Those adults are placing themselves in serious legal jeopardy by letting it go.

Again, like it or not. It’s the law. And the law is there because adults frequently don’t want to rock the boat. Well, this law says they have to.

And yet we both know it doesn't work that way.
The school turns a blind eye to a lot of it because the parent or parents of the little d-bags doing it are probably as much a d-bag as the kid if not worst and if junior gets suspended it might be an inconvenience to them .
"You can't do this , we'll get a lawyer and sue the school, you have to keep little my little Dindo in school "
Bet you've heard it before.

Hell , when mine was in elementary school , they sent home a note with the kids explaining that if they retaliated against a bully they themselves would be disciplined .
The procedure was to go to the school and they would deal with it.
Which of course they didn't because of aforementioned little d-bag's parents threatening the school for removing little d-bag ect. ect. .
That was the point where I told mine " Listen, you've done the right thing, we've done the right thing, so do whatever you have to and Mom and Dad will deal with it ."