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Obama to end Don't ask, Don't tell

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WASHINGTON — President-elect Barack Obama will allow gays to serve openly in the military by overturning the controversial "don't ask, don't tell" policy that marred President Clinton's first days in office, according to incoming White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs.

The startling pronouncement, which could re-open a dormant battle in the culture wars and distract from other elements of Obama's agenda, came during a Gibbs exchange with members of the public who sent in questions that were answered on YouTube.

"Thadeus of Lansing, Mich., asks, 'Is the new administration going to get rid of the "don't ask, don't tell policy?'" said Gibbs, looking into the camera. "Thadeus, you don't hear a politician give a one-word answer much. But it's, 'Yes.'"

The Obama transition team declined to elaborate on that one-word answer when asked by FOX News on Wednesday about a timetable for repealing the policy, which was enacted by Clinton after a protracted public debate. Obama officials also would not explain which lawmakers or Pentagon officials would attempt to repeal "don't ask, don't tell."

Clinton, who initially sought to overturn the longstanding ban on gays in the military, ended up enacting the "don't ask, don't tell" policy as a compromise that made it illegal for commanders to ask about the sexual orientation of service members, who were also barred from announcing they were homosexual. If a service member's homosexuality becomes known anyway, he or she is expelled.

Clinton is widely viewed as having stumbled during his first days in office by getting caught up in the raging controversy, which detracted from the rest of his agenda. It is not yet clear whether Obama would face a similar debacle.

For years, Obama has said he generally opposes the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Last summer, he told a gay magazine he can "reasonbably" see it being repealed. But that was a far cry from Gibbs' unequivocal promise that the policy will indeed be ended.

The gay community is eager for a quick repeal of "don't ask, don't tell," but fears it could be months before the new administration reaches a consensus with lawmakers and the military. Others think Obama could do it quickly, but is leery of the kind of fallout Bill Clinton faced when he tackled the divisive issue.
 
Creating problems where they don't exist. This guy is going to be a train wreck.
 
well I'll only speak for the small, minature (really small) population of the Army, Army Reserve and National Guard I've come in contact with over that last 13+ years.

nobody cares anyway. it's those dipshit's who want to advertise and push the envelope of the DADT policy.. flaunting, almost begging to be investigated by drawing attention to themselves OVER and OVER.

i'm NOT surprised at all, i will guess that there will be issues in the combat arms units though...

we called each other fags & homo all the time.
 
Some things they should just leave alone. Shoot one of my E-7's was gay, did we care NO. What you do on your off time is totally up to you. Then again he didn't flaunt it in anyones face either.
 
Some things they should just leave alone. Shoot one of my E-7's was gay, did we care NO. What you do on your off time is totally up to you. Then again he didn't flaunt it in anyones face either.

IMO, that is the issue.

Some want to flaunt their lifestyle onto others... be it pro____ or anti_____.

i really dislike attention whores. especially in the military. all we have to do is show up shit, shower'd and shaved (groomed) and take care of the mission. it's NOT that difficult [thinking] -i'm probably just brainwashed [laugh]
 
Yeah, I know. Which is why I said they should just leave it alone. I have no problems with them serving as long as you don't flaunt it. Leave things the way they are.
 
In the words of Chris Rock,

If they wanna fight, let 'em fight. Cause I ain't fightin'! I don't give a f*ck if there's a Russian tank rollin' down Flatbush Avenue. I ain't shootin' nobody. So call me a f*ggot! When the war's over, I'll be the f*ggot with two legs, thank you!

This policy was a solution in search of a problem.
 
The whole policy is insane. If you want to serve and you are physically/mentally qualified, you should be able to serve your country. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with your ability to serve honorably.
 
seriously...i don't care what people choose to do on their free time. If they want to plow each other in the pooper when I'm not around...go for it. If they choose to fight, gay, straight, asexual, polyamorous, i don't give a f***. Just let them fight.
 
As a current service member I am not sure how I feel about this. I think the current policy works fine. Like others have said, if you wanna be gay, I could care less. Just don't be flamboyantly gay. When I'm in a combat zone or driving around on base in a patrol car in the states I only care about one thing, does my partner have my back if sh*t goes down?
 
seriously...i don't care what people choose to do on their free time. If they want to plow each other in the pooper when I'm not around...go for it. If they choose to fight, gay, straight, asexual, polyamorous, i don't give a f***. Just let them fight.

See usnma's post. His reaction is typical of the bulk of soldiers reactions from what I hear. That is why "Don't Ask" has worked (for those never outed) for the most part. Where "Don't Ask" fails miserably is in people outed against their wishes. They are basically getting fired for being gay. This is not an easy one to deal with and Obama is off to a bad start allowing politics to force his hand on this one.
 
I am Kind of torn. I think the current policy is working fine. I don't want to know if the guy next to me in the shower is gay or not.

For all those that say "don't flatter yourself!" How do you feel about Women being forced to shower next to men? If I can imagine how a women might feel...I would imagine it to feel like someone telling me I have to shower next to gay men. What I don't know can't make me feel uncomfy :) Leave it the way it is.
 
I dont think it's the military that will have a problem with the decision, I think it's all the redneck bastards that are going to be outraged and cause the problems. Personally, I dont care who you are or what you do, as long as you're not pushing yourself onto others excessively then do what you wish, most the guys I work with and have met in the military feel the same. most the people that will vote against this have never served/worked in the military or haven't for a long time.
 
I dont think it's the military that will have a problem with the decision, I think it's all the redneck bastards that are going to be outraged and cause the problems.


I would have to disagree, while most of the enlisted folks probably wouldn't care whether someone is gay or not there are still quite a few that would. My old unit had one person that a lot of us suspected were gay. As soon as he got out he came out. Most of the people that we're friendly with him stopped hanging out with or calling him. Its too bad, he was a good guy. At my current unit we have one who a lot of people "suspect" of being gay. I personally could care less, like I said all I care about is when sh*t hits the fan, do you got my back? Others still dont accept gays.

A poll conducted by military times provided the following stats:

1. Do you support President-elect Obama's call to repeal don't ask, don't tell?

58% NO
29% Yes
14% No Opinion

2. If don't ask, don't tell is repealed how would you respond?

71% CONTINUE TO SERVE
14% I would consider not re-enlisting or extending
9% I would not re-enlist or extend
6% No Opinion
 
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See usnma's post. His reaction is typical of the bulk of soldiers reactions from what I hear. That is why "Don't Ask" has worked (for those never outed) for the most part. Where "Don't Ask" fails miserably is in people outed against their wishes. They are basically getting fired for being gay. This is not an easy one to deal with and Obama is off to a bad start allowing politics to force his hand on this one.

All the ones I knew to get outed for being gay either asked themselves or as a female MP and a female cook decided they didn't want to be in the military any more got caught during a room inspection. Just happened to be across the hall from me. Lets just say it was an interesting morning.
 
1. Do you support President-elect Obama's call to repeal don't ask, don't tell?

58% NO
29% Yes
14% No Opinion

2. If don't ask, don't tell is repealed how would you respond?

71% CONTINUE TO SERVE
14% I would consider not re-enlisting or extending
9% I would not re-enlist or extend
6% No Opinion

Wow, those numbers do surprise me. ah well, guess we'll just have to see what happens...
 

This comment I think sums up the issue perfectly.

As with you, this is a topic that is very important to me. My late partner of thirty years and I met when we were both stationed in Saigon, me in the Army, he in the Marines. While our personal relationship didn’t start until a few years later when we reconnected in NYC, as two gay men serving at the same time, we formed a mutual bond of support. Fortunately, for us, at that time the military basically turned a blind eye to gay servicemen; they needed us too much. I guess the hypocrisy is what always amazed me. The gay scene in Saigon was basically wide open and ignored by the powers that were. Once the nation was out of Vietnam, the purges began again. Both Mark and myself by then had left the military, but friends of ours who chose to stay and had hoped to become lifers were drummed out of the service.

Any soldier worth his weight knows what behavior is appropriate and what is not. The suggestion that somehow gay soldiers can’t control themselves and would be poor for morale is ridiculous. I go to a local suburban gym; do I attack other men in the locker room? Of course not, I’m an adult, I control myself and my urges. Inappropriate behavior by any soldier, straight or gay, is, and should be, met with severe consequences. But to force men and women to hide and deny who they are in order to serve their nation is an abomination. It does a disservice to patriotic men and women, and it does a disservice to our nation. As Barry Goldwater once said: “I don’t care if a soldier is gay or straight, as long as he can shoot straight”. I think Barry had it right.

Comment by John in Dublin Ca. — January 6, 2009 @ 12:47 pm - January 6, 2009
 
All the ones I knew to get outed for being gay either asked themselves or as a female MP and a female cook decided they didn't want to be in the military any more got caught during a room inspection. Just happened to be across the hall from me. Lets just say it was an interesting morning.

I don't deny that gays (or non gays) will play the queer trumpcard for an out, no pun intended, but I have heard of examples where gays wanted to serve and couldn't because someone figured out they were gay and outed them.

This brings up another down side to don't ask. The ability for cowards to bail on their commitment while sidestepping a dishonorable or bad conduct discharge. Don't ask requires an administrative separation (with a COS of general I believe unless caught in the act) and thus the afflicted soldier still gets benefits, etc so the down sides are minimal to those wanting to play that. Although I believe it i not that simple, as a hearing is required, etc, but wouldn't it be simpler just to define acceptable conduct, and accept all persons?
 
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The female cook and MP did not get honorable discharges. They did get dishonorables. Didn't see anyone getting outed by someone figuring out they were gay. We were also a very small unit compared to most. Like I said my E-7 was gay. We all knew it didn't bother any of us. We still respected him/rank and we all did our jobs as was expected.
What you do in your off time and behind closed doors I really don't care. Just don't flaunt it.
 
I don't deny that gays (or non gays) will play the queer trumpcard for an out, no pun intended, but I have heard of examples where gays wanted to serve and couldn't because someone figured out they were gay and outed them.

This brings up another down side to don't ask. The ability for cowards to bail on their commitment while sidestepping a dishonorable or bad conduct discharge. Don't ask requires an administrative separation (with a COS of general I believe unless caught in the act) and thus the afflicted soldier still gets benefits, etc so the down sides are minimal to those wanting to play that. Although I believe it i not that simple, as a hearing is required, etc, but wouldn't it be simpler just to define acceptable conduct, and accept all persons?

this the key... no one is suppossed to "out" someone on a mere suspicion.

DADT policy is very forgiving and goes into EXACT details of what is considered gay.

the short version: statements, acts or marriages.

The only person who can authorize and investigation is the unit commander, not some a**h*** on a witch hunt.

Since coming into the guard, I've noticed SOME the units aren't really educated on the policies. I've also seen blatant disreguard (i.e. girl kissing another girl at unit functions) or unit NCOs and soldiers going on witch hunts to try and "out" someone who they thought was gay. it's bizzare, [hmmm]
 
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I'm glad it's going away.

Why should it matter if a person willing to give their life for their country likes men or women?

"OH MY GOD. A GAY PERSON FOUGHT FOR MY FREEDOM. NOOOOO!"

As for the "as long as they don't flaunt it" comments:

Ever been around a large group of men before for an extended period of time? Pretty amazing how much heterosexual tendancies are "flaunted", isn't it?

Seriously, people need to get a life if this is what keeps them up at night. Gay people aren't terrorists, communists or rapists. They are Americans.
 
My brother served honorably in the Navy. Maybe I'm biased, but I think they (we) were lucky to have him. He's gone now, so there's not much more I can say about that, other than I think it's only a matter of time before one's service will not take into account one's sexual orientation. If it's not done now, it will be done eventually.

Here's a guy whose opinion on the matter I respect. He gave his leg for us - That's all I need to know.
Eric Alva
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Alva
http://www.hrc.org/alva/
 
I'm glad it's going away.

Why should it matter if a person willing to give their life for their country likes men or women?

"OH MY GOD. A GAY PERSON FOUGHT FOR MY FREEDOM. NOOOOO!"

As for the "as long as they don't flaunt it" comments:

Ever been around a large group of men before for an extended period of time? Pretty amazing how much heterosexual tendancies are "flaunted", isn't it?

Seriously, people need to get a life if this is what keeps them up at night. Gay people aren't terrorists, communists or rapists. They are Americans.

You obviously don't live in the Happy Valley near Northampton. If you want to see flaunt it take a ride down main street. Especially when its warmer weather. I do realize it is the militant gays, but still.[thinking]
 
You obviously don't live in the Happy Valley near Northampton. If you want to see flaunt it take a ride down main street. Especially when its warmer weather. I do realize it is the militant gays, but still.[thinking]

I've spent some time in NoHo. I'm fully aware of how it is.

Take a ride on Main Street in Springfield any Thursday, Friday or Saturday night and you'll see 100x as many guys flaunting heterosexuality in a much more crude way. Then try Worthington street to finish off the night. If you are a lady, don't go alone.

We are just used to seeing flaunting one way more than the other.

I find it rather odd that people get all up in arms about someone stepping on an American flag but don't mind insulting people who are giving their lives in the military for our freedoms.
 
I avoid Springfield 99% of the time.[wink] If I do have to go there it is only certain places and during the day.[wink] Same with Holyoke.
 
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