Non Lethal weapons with LTC-A ALP

[JmasterJ]

Does anyone know if an LTC-A ALP holder can own/conceal an expandable ASP type baton in Ma.?

 

[Scrivener]

LTC stands for License To Carry FIREARMS.

Unless and until a mere baton is, by some severe perversion of logic and language, deemed a "firearm," your LTC is wholly irrelevant to the subject of clubs, knives, etc..

 

[vellnueve]

To be fair, you need a Firearms Identification Card to own and carry pepper spray/OC. And said card does not allow you to own or possess "firearms."

JmasterJ, from my understand ASP batons are illegal in Massachusetts as they are too dangerous for anyone but trained law enforcement to possess. It's in MGL somewhere.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

It is only a baton when carried by a person in governmental employ. When a private citizen carries such a device is is a "blunt instrument", "club" or "bludgeon".

The Taser folks at the Shot Show told me they have people working on getting the civilian Taser made legal for non-LEOs in MA. I wished them luck .

 

[Scrivener]

To be fair, you need a Firearms Identification Card to own and carry pepper spray/OC. And said card does not allow you to own or possess "firearms."

Since 1998, Mass. law has defined defensive sprays as "ammunition." Further, Mass. law is contradictory, using "firearms" to define what the rest of the world calls "hand guns" while also using the term in the BATFE/usual sense of the word, to include long arms, on FID cards - which then EXCLUDES handguns.

Hence my answer about definitions. However, clubs and knives are not, never were and are not proposed to be authorized by ANY firearms license.

 

[vellnueve]

It is only a baton when carried by a person in governmental employ. When a private citizen carries such a device is is a "blunt instrument", "club" or "bludgeon".

The Taser folks at the Shot Show told me they have people working on getting the civilian Taser made legal for non-LEOs in MA. I wished them luck .

From what I understand it is hard enough for an LEO to get certified to use a Taser. I can't imagine what kind of range tests/training requirements a mere subject will have to meet.

The bottomline is that Mass is stupid.

 

[JonJ]

From what I understand it is hard enough for an LEO to get certified to use a Taser. I can't imagine what kind of range tests/training requirements a mere subject will have to meet.

The bottomline is that Mass is stupid.

Not really (except Mass is stupid). Excerpted:

501 CMR: EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF PUBLIC SAFETY
501 CMR 8.00: STANDARDS FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT TRAINING IN THE
USE OF ELECTRONIC WEAPONS AND THE SALE OF
ELECTRONIC WEAPONS IN THE COMMONWEALTH

8.04 General Qualifications for the Possession and Use of Electronic Weapons

(a) In order to qualify for admission into an approved training
program for the use of electronic weapons, an authorized officer
must:
(1) be currently employed as a federal, state or municipal law
enforcement officer, or be a member of a special reaction team
in a state prison or designated special operations or tactical
team in a county correctional facility;
(2) have successfully completed a firearms training course
conducted by the Municipal Police Training Committee or
approved by the Colonel of the Massachusetts State Police; and
(3) be authorized by the officer’s department to carry a firearm in
the performance of the officer’s duty.
(b) Except for training purposes an authorized officer shall not
possess or carry an electronic weapon until successfully
completing an approved training program for the use of electronic
weapons.

8.05 Training Programs on the Use of Electronic Weapons

In order for a training program for the use of electronic weapons to
receive approval from the Secretary of Public Safety, the program
must demonstrate the following components:
(1) Not less than 4 hours of training;
(2) A review of the mechanics of an electronic weapon;
(3) Illustration of the medical issues involved with the use of an
electronic weapon, including, but not limited to, information
regarding the effects of electronic weapons on individuals with
pre-existing medical conditions, information on and a
demonstration regarding the removal of wires from an
individual after an electronic weapon has been discharged;
(4) A segment on weapon proficiency for trainees, including a
demonstration on the accurate discharge of an electronic
weapon and practice discharge of an electronic weapon by
trainees;
(5) A segment on the use of an electronic device as less than lethal
force and its relation to other weapons within the department’s
use of force policy. This segment must incorporate review of
the department’s less than lethal force policy; and
(6) A segment on the department’s data collection protocol and
reporting requirements as set forth in G.L. c. 140,§ 131J.
All departments and agencies must submit their training program
curriculum to the Secretary of Public Safety for approval prior to
training authorized officers. All training program curriculum on
the use of electronic weapons must be submitted to the Executive
Office of Public Safety, One Ashburton Place, Boston, MA 02108
for approval.

 

[vellnueve]

Ok, but Mass is still stupid

 

[JmasterJ]

Wow bro! Schrivener you must be an old man...weather getting to you? Talk about setting a mood huh. If you want to get symantical with me, let's take the words one by one...License, To, Carry....ummmmmmmmm no mention of anything to do with SOLEY firearms. The LTC-A ALP gives the holder the "priveledge" to carry a concealed weapon otherwise known to our symantically correct individuals out there in the crowd as CCW. Now yes, the main purpose for an LTC is for FIREARMS but you can also carry less lethal deturants like Mace...(oh yeah, not a firearm) As my original question was before we tracked off towards tazers and such was basically, are expandable batons legal in Ma.? My question has been answered, I think...(thank you) and now time to for Schriv. to put a hot pad on those ackey bones...it's snowing out.

 

[Scrivener]

Wow bro! Schrivener [sic] you must be an old man...weather getting to you? Talk about setting a mood huh. If you want to get symantical with me, let's take the words one by one...License, To, Carry....ummmmmmmmm no mention of anything to do with SOLEY [sic] firearms. The LTC-A ALP gives the holder the "priveledge"[sic] to carry a concealed weapon otherwise known to our symantically correct individuals out there in the crowd as CCW. Now yes, the main purpose for an LTC is for FIREARMS but you can also carry less lethal deturants [sic] like Mace...(oh yeah, not a firearm) As my original question was before we tracked off towards tazers and such was basically, are expandable batons legal in Ma.?

The item in question is, as clearly stated on its face, a License To Carry FIREARMS. What, didn't you bother to read that far?

Note further that it is NOT a "CCW," your erroneous semantic proclamations notwithstanding. The word "concealed" appears nowhere thereon. Neither is concealed carry required by law; the only reference to "concealed" in the licensing statute is under LTC/B, which does NOT permit such carry.

The nonsensical spray issue was, as stated, because such are included in the definition of "ammunition." Your "baton" was and is irrelevant under the scope of the LTC.

You need something else to cover your ASP...

 

[Lkwinnipesaukee]

^^ Ohh man, you're in for it!!!

50 bucks he corrects your spelling and grammar. I can't say I don't like it; I'm always on my toes now. I even put little [sic]'s in front of my friends comments. Scrivener has probably taught me more about grammar than my english teacher.

 

[JmasterJ]

Schriv...You scare me...in that Hannibol Lector kinda of way bud. Don't get to close, he bites. You need to find a better way to get your post count up there besides "NONsensical" I can pee further than you contests. Again, my question was answered, thanks

 

[vellnueve]

Scrivener is a lawyer. Thus he is not congenial.

 

[Cross-X]

...You need something else to cover your ASP...

That has got to be the line of the night!


Bravo, Scrivener!

 

[JmasterJ]

Scrivener is a lawyer. Thus he is not congenial.

Well, that explains it...all is understood then! And yes I do have to give him that...it was a good line wasn't it!

 

[Lkwinnipesaukee]

Asp?

 

[vellnueve]

ASP is the brand name of the standard extendable steel baton that many LEOs and security people (and in free states, citizens) carry.