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NFA & SBRs in Massachusetts
- Thread starter 95blklsc
- Start date
OK here goes.....
SBRs are the only NFA item allowed by MGL.
1) Purchase an AR lower receiver as a normal long gun.
2) Fill out an BATFE Form 1 and get your chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) to sign the form saying they know nothing that would disqualify you for owning a firearm.
3) Send the Form 1 and $200 check to BATFE.
4) Wait 1 week - 3 months for the form to be returned approved.
5) Send it to our friends at Orion Arms to be engraved with your name, city and state for ~$30 + shipping.
6) Purchase your short barrel and folding stock.
7) Assemble the gun of your dreams.
#2 is usually the place where MA residents get stuck, there CLEO refuses to sign. There are ways around the CLEO, if needed let me know.
Once registered as a SBR you must request permission for the BATF to take it out of state, tho to do so is a simple form.
You can still sell the rifle to anyone in a state that allows SBRs as long as they pay the $200 tax stamp. Or you can remove it from the NFA registry by sending a letter to the BATFE letting them know you have replaced the short barrel with one over 16", and it transfers as a normal long gun again.
Adam
wchandler
NES Member
That is all what I have heard, I just don't know about using new receivers (even ones registered as SBR) to put folding stocks, etc.. I was under the impression that a pre-ban was needed for that. I could be wrong...
The MA assault weapons ban only applies to rifles, once it i registered as a SBR its federal classification changes and the rules for "rifles" do not apply.
Once a firearm is in the NFA registry pretty much all the rules are out the window. That is what makes the $200 worth it.
Adam
Awesome! So for some paperwork and $200 bucks I can turn any lower into a SBR assault weapon.I never knew you could circumvent the MA AWB this way..Thanks!
Watch your words, don't use the anti's bullshit slogans. By definition an assault weapon is a select fire rifle.
For some paperwork and $200 bucks you can turn your AR into an SBR with a folding/collapsable stock.
But good luck getting your CLEO to sign.
If you are able to get a signature we also sell short barreled uppers including 7", 11.5", 14.5", etc.
Adam
Lets look at this SBR preban thing in Massachusetts.
The NFA did not work to circumvent the '94 Federal AWB. How could it be used to circumvent the Massachusetts AWB when it is a mirror? It can't. The NFA does not trump Massachusetts General Laws.
You can't have a SBS (short barreled shotgun) either.
Sorry to crap up your thread, Adam.
This would be a very good discussion in the Gun laws forum.
The NFA did not work to circumvent the '94 Federal AWB. How could it be used to circumvent the Massachusetts AWB when it is a mirror? It can't. The NFA does not trump Massachusetts General Laws.
You can't have a SBS (short barreled shotgun) either.
Sorry to crap up your thread, Adam.
This would be a very good discussion in the Gun laws forum.
Unfortunately,we don't have to abide by the classic definition of an assault weapon regarding gun laws here.Using the classic definition of an assault weapon,we don't have a ban on them here because we can legally own a MG.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Just for the sake of argument,could you please point out the specific law that states when you register a rifle as an SBR with the ATF,somehow the local laws no longer apply ? I'm sure it would be appreciated by the people that are thinking of trying to circumvent a felony conviction by getting a $200 tax stamp here in MA.
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Aren't SBRs and full-auto weapons both allowed with a class III license (green card)?
I went through all this a couple months back. Bottom line is either use a pre-ban receiver or "forgetaboutit". Massachusetts has their own interpretation of laws. Though NFA removes a SBR from 922(r) on the Federal scene, not necessarily so on the state. You can have a SBR with post ban receiver, just don't add folding stock, bayonet lug, nor other "nasty" items. I had my eye on a Vector HK51 SBR @$1350, which would have been legal. Funds got...diverted elsewhere. This gets to where you need a practising lawyer, not a "barracks" one (even if he stayed at Motel 6). Massachusetts laws were written by Shakespear where, "even the devil can quote the scriptures" to entrap the unwary. IMHO.
What i posted is how i knew things to work with SBRs and AWB. Having never registered a SBR during the federal AWB this is not first hand knowledge.
Before possibly misleading anyone further let me make some calls and get an answer.
JonJ, it is not crapping on my thread to make sure the advice i am giving is legal.
I made a few calls and it turns out that JonJ and I are both correct, and that it is more of a grey area then I thought.
(I am still looking for a copy of the ATF letter to support my comments below)
SBRs are there own classification and not considered a "rifle", there for nothing in the Fed or MA AWB applies to them. However during the Fed AWB the ATF issued an opinion letter that said (for no good reason) that the Federal AWB applied to SBRs. (as JonJ said)
Now i am not a lawyer(!!) but I and others agree that the ATF's letter about the Fed AWB went away with the Fed AWB. Therefore until MA issues a similar letter the MA AWB does not apply to SBRs. This is the grey area.
(I am still looking for a copy of the ATF letter to support my comments below)
SBRs are there own classification and not considered a "rifle", there for nothing in the Fed or MA AWB applies to them. However during the Fed AWB the ATF issued an opinion letter that said (for no good reason) that the Federal AWB applied to SBRs. (as JonJ said)
Now i am not a lawyer(!!) but I and others agree that the ATF's letter about the Fed AWB went away with the Fed AWB. Therefore until MA issues a similar letter the MA AWB does not apply to SBRs. This is the grey area.
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Doesn't MA law just lump SBRs in as "firearms"? (eg, they're treated
as though they were handguns... ) ?
If this is the case than I don't see how SBRs are any different than
a handgun which is still subject to the MA AWB. (eg, like AR pistols and
the like. )
-Mike
as though they were handguns... ) ?
If this is the case than I don't see how SBRs are any different than
a handgun which is still subject to the MA AWB. (eg, like AR pistols and
the like. )
-Mike
Ok, so that makes this even more interesting. So in MA, legally
speaking, an SBR is no different than any other long
gun? (obvious federal registration requirement set aside for the moment.)
The problem here is I'd bet there isnt that much verbiage in MGLs pretaining
to SBRs and the like....
-Mike
There isn't. By definition it's not a rifle or a firearm (handgun) but it's not prohibited like a "sawed off shotgun" which is a short barreled shotgun. A SBS is allowed under NFA but don't get caught with one in Massachusetts.
So by reading what can be found in MGLs, SBRs are allowed and they would come under the Mass AWB which directly refers to the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30). If the above letter from the ATF is genuine then the same rules that pertain to an "assault rifle" apply to Mass SBRs.
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SBS, I have seen short brl shotguns for sale in mass by dealers,they say i just need the cheif to sign paper work.
What you see are not SBS (if the dealer was bright, he should have told you that). They are AOW (Any Other Weapon). Most common is the Remington 870 with 14 inch barrel. Its made by Remington as an AOW. Its not grandpops 870 with the barrel cut short. That would be a short barrel shotgun (sawed off shotgun) and illegal. With an AOW however, what you see is what you get. You cannot add a buttstock. Do so and you make your legal AOW into an illegal SBS.
Both SBS and AOW made from a shotgun are not allowed in MA. However, if the gun was originally a title II shotgun with a barrel or barrels less then 18inchs, it is legal in MA.
Go back and reread the definition of a Sawed-Off Shotgun. Chapter 140; Section 121. “Sawed-off shotgun”, any weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.
Since both Remington and Mossberg make SBS and AOW guns that weren't made "by alteration, modification or otherwise" those guns are legal. I know several people that own both C&R and non-C&R AOWs and SBSs. I also know several dealers willing to transfer them into the state.
--EasyD
Go back and reread the definition of a Sawed-Off Shotgun. Chapter 140; Section 121. “Sawed-off shotgun”, any weapon made from a shotgun, whether by alteration, modification or otherwise, if such weapon as modified has one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches.
Since both Remington and Mossberg make SBS and AOW guns that weren't made "by alteration, modification or otherwise" those guns are legal. I know several people that own both C&R and non-C&R AOWs and SBSs. I also know several dealers willing to transfer them into the state.
--EasyD
Sorry i have been MIA, its been a crazy month.
I have had a chance to speak with a number of MA dealers, LEOs, and NFA collectors and everyone had there own take on wether the AWB would apply to SBRs in MA. So at this point i do not know what to tell you folks.
And unless one of us wants to hire a lawyer to research this for us we will never know for sure.
I will keep looking into it and if i find anything definitive i will post it here.
Adam
I have had a chance to speak with a number of MA dealers, LEOs, and NFA collectors and everyone had there own take on wether the AWB would apply to SBRs in MA. So at this point i do not know what to tell you folks.
And unless one of us wants to hire a lawyer to research this for us we will never know for sure.
I will keep looking into it and if i find anything definitive i will post it here.
Adam
Very interesting and informative. I was thinking of going for an SBR, and from this discussion, I guess it would be best to use my pre-ban receiver for this job, since then I can add all the pre-ban goodies (flash hider, collapsable stock). Too bad, because I would much rather use a new receiver...
I have a question and this thread seems like the best place to start.-can anyone tell me what the rules are for taking an existing pre-ban rifle and converting/making it an SBR but cutting down the existing barrel.
Is the process for this the same in that you have to get BATF Form 1 approved then you can have the rifle transformed by your gunsmith?
I see alot of talk in this thread around building an AR 15 style SBR by getting a pre-ban lower and slapping on a new SBR upper. I am looking at doing this with a pre-ban mini-14 and adding one of these stocks-see attached pic
Thanks
Is the process for this the same in that you have to get BATF Form 1 approved then you can have the rifle transformed by your gunsmith?
I see alot of talk in this thread around building an AR 15 style SBR by getting a pre-ban lower and slapping on a new SBR upper. I am looking at doing this with a pre-ban mini-14 and adding one of these stocks-see attached pic
Thanks
Attachments
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Basically all you have to do is get the Form 1 approved and then you can
basically convert the gun. There may be additional paperwork BS required
if you have to give it to a dealer afterwards to work on it, but if your gunsmith
is an FFL (which he should be!) he will know what he has to do to
stay legal while he has your gun.
IIRC the biggest obstacle is getting the receiver engraved, so it might be
useful to either A. get it done before its converted or B. get your gunsmith
to do it before he converts it.
-Mike
The reason they go for a pre-ban upper to Form 1 as a SBR is because if you use a post-ban receiver you still cannot have dreaded flash suppressor, bayonet lug, etc. Even with the Form 1, you would just have a post-ban SBR. By using a pre-ban lower, you retain the flexibility before all this silliness hit the fan. Since its not a machine gun, you can send it off to various engravers who advertise in Gun Digest, Shot Gun News.
