Need help with antique SxS, Belgian/French

[Dmoney]

Looking for help with an antique side by side. It appears to be French due to French load data. And Belgian sourced due to the proof marks. But I’m having difficulty narrowing down a year it was made, and the type of powder it was proofed for. I would like to narrow down the year of production. And eventually find someone I can pay to make some cartridges for it. If there are any antique (thinking 1897-1904 so far) side by side enthusiasts in the brain trust that can help with proof mark identification for the powder type (Lion/S2) and anyone that knows how I can have cartridges made for it that would be a great start. Thanks in advance

 

[Picton]

https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf

Go to it!

 

[Deleted member 67409]

You probably aren't going to need special shells, maybe outside of RSTs, because it's 20-gauge. RST sells short shells if you need some. There's a fair amount of choke, about 4mm, consistent with older guns.

Do you have any idea who the manufacturer is? Is there a name on it? It's definitely Belgian because those aren't French proofs.

Edit: you do need short shells, 2.5", assuming someone hasn't opened up the chambers.

 

[Dmoney]

https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf

Go to it!

Thanks, ive seen that list before. If you look at #15 on the list, it has the lion over the powder type. Mine has S2 listed on it and was curious what that was

 

[Dmoney]

You probably aren't going to need special shells, maybe outside of RSTs, because it's 20-gauge. RST sells short shells if you need some. There's a fair amount of choke, about 4mm, consistent with older guns.

Do you have any idea who the manufacturer is? Is there a name on it? It's definitely Belgian because those aren't French proofs.

Edit: you do need short shells, 2.5", assuming someone hasn't opened up the chambers.

The only name on it is “L.P. Ducasse”, Bordeaux
So a French name and city, french load data, on a Belgian piece
Also, do you have to special order RSTs or is there a shop that carries them?
Thanks

 

[Deleted member 67409]

The only name on it is “L.P. Ducasse”, Bordeaux
So a French name and city, french load data, on a Belgian piece
Also, do you have to special order RSTs or is there a shop that carries them?
Thanks

RST sells shells online only as far as I know.

Belgian gun parts, like barrels, were often bought by gunmakers to save on costs. The barrels are clearly Belgian because of the Tower of Liege proof marks and how those aren't French proofs. I own a WW1-era French (St. Etienne) SxS and those proofs are nothing like mine, except for the chamber and choke measurements.
33 - BORDEAUX- FACTURE L.P. DUCASSE- MANUFACTURE ARMES -FABRIQUE A LIEGE- SAINT ETIENNE- CHASSE ESCRIME-1876 " | For sale on Delcampe"

Looks like Ducasse was a Bordelais (Bordeaux) gun shop. So, French-built gun using Belgian barrels and maybe lockwork.

Try the Double Gun Forum, those guys know French guns more than most. Or, take it to a SxS specialty gunsmith like Mitch Schultz in CT or New England Custom Gun in NH. There’s a strong chance someone opened up the chokes and chambers.

 

[PATRON]

The shotgun was made around the 1920's Belgian, and French proof marked.
I have never seen so many markings on a shotgun.Do you have a picture of the whole gun.

 

[Dmoney]

RST sells shells online only as far as I know.

Belgian gun parts, like barrels, were often bought by gunmakers to save on costs. The barrels are clearly Belgian because of the Tower of Liege proof marks and how those aren't French proofs. I own a WW1-era French (St. Etienne) SxS and those proofs are nothing like mine, except for the chamber and choke measurements.
33 - BORDEAUX- FACTURE L.P. DUCASSE- MANUFACTURE ARMES -FABRIQUE A LIEGE- SAINT ETIENNE- CHASSE ESCRIME-1876 " | For sale on Delcampe"

Looks like Ducasse was a Bordelais (Bordeaux) gun shop. So, French-built gun using Belgian barrels and maybe lockwork.

Try the Double Gun Forum, those guys know French guns more than most. Or, take it to a SxS specialty gunsmith like Mitch Schultz in CT or New England Custom Gun in NH. There’s a strong chance someone opened up the chokes and chambers.

Great, thank you. How do I read the chamber and choke measurements on there?

 

[Dmoney]

The shotgun was made around the 1920's Belgian, and French proof marked.
I have never seen so many markings on a shotgun.Do you have a picture of the whole gun.

Yes I’ll go take a couple pictures and add them
One person I spoke with said it was not made after 1904 based on one of the marks, but wasn’t made before 1897 based on another.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

Great, thank you. How do I read the chamber and choke measurements on there?

65mm = 2.55" chamber
15.6/16 = choke and bore in millimeters

Again, they could've been opened up since the gun was made.

 

[Dmoney]

The shotgun was made around the 1920's Belgian, and French proof marked.
I have never seen so many markings on a shotgun.Do you have a picture of the whole gun.

 

[PATRON]

It almost makes me think that with all those markings it was a factory salesmen gun.Getting up dated checked, and stamped every now and then.
It's a very nice looking shotgun congrats

 

[Deleted member 67409]

It almost makes me think that with all those markings it was a factory salesmen gun.Getting up dated checked, and stamped every now and then.

I just took another look at the proofs - "CHOKE" and "CHOKE" probably mean Full/Full chokes. And yeah, the gun's been around lol

Edit, with the chokes being 15.6mm and 15.4mm, they're Full and Extra Full if still original.

 

[Picton]

It's in great shape.

 

[Dmoney]

Thank you all. If anyone has any other thoughts I’d appreciate anything I can get out of the brain trust. And now just to have it checked out and find some cartridges for it!