Naturalization paperwork question re: weapon sales

[jordan12]

Hi guys,

I know this is a long shot, but maybe someone has gone through the process before and can chime in on my conundrum:

I am about to file my US naturalization paperwork and [hopefully] become a citizen sometime next year. In the process of filling out the 21-page form I came upon the following question:

"Did you ever sell, give, or provide weapons to any person, or help another person sell, give, or provide weapons to any person?"

The interesting thing is, this question is listed amongst questions like "Are you a member of a terrorist organization?" and "Were you involved in genocide?" and all "yes" answers in that group require additional explanation in writing.

Here is my question: since when are legal gun sales lumped together with genocide and terrorism? I am a legal permanent resident (over 14 years in the US), hold a resident LTC-A in MA and a non-resident P&R in NH, and have been [legally] buying and selling weapons from dealers and individuals (same as most people on this website, I presume). Why do I need a justification?

And if anyone has gone through the naturalization process, maybe they can share whether they were delayed or excessively questioned regarding their weapons sales?

Thanks!
--Jordan

 

[attorneyfoley]

Answer "yes" to the question and attach an explanation. You really have no choice.

 

[Glockster30]

This^

Answering "yes" that you sold firearms as a legally licensed gun owner to other legally licensed gun owners should not be a problem as you had the right to participate in the transactions.

 

[Smash05]

Hi guys,

I know this is a long shot, but maybe someone has gone through the process before and can chime in on my conundrum:

I am about to file my US naturalization paperwork and [hopefully] become a citizen sometime next year. In the process of filling out the 21-page form I came upon the following question:

"Did you ever sell, give, or provide weapons to any person, or help another person sell, give, or provide weapons to any person?"

The interesting thing is, this question is listed amongst questions like "Are you a member of a terrorist organization?" and "Were you involved in genocide?" and all "yes" answers in that group require additional explanation in writing.

Here is my question: since when are legal gun sales lumped together with genocide and terrorism? I am a legal permanent resident (over 14 years in the US), hold a resident LTC-A in MA and a non-resident P&R in NH, and have been [legally] buying and selling weapons from dealers and individuals (same as most people on this website, I presume). Why do I need a justification?

And if anyone has gone through the naturalization process, maybe they can share whether they were delayed or excessively questioned regarding their weapons sales?

Thanks!
--Jordan

I would speak with an immigration attorney.

 

[sbi]

I don't see the need to speak with an attorney.

Answer "yes" because you need to tell the truth and attach a copy of your licenses and write in the explanation to the "yes" that you are legally licensed to own firearms and the law allows you to buy/sell firearms (use better language of course). Save the attorney money.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I don't see the need to speak with an attorney.

Answer "yes" because you need to tell the truth and attach a copy of your licenses and write in the explanation to the "yes" that you are legally licensed to own firearms and the law allows you to buy/sell firearms (use better language of course). Save the attorney money.

I agree with the above. That's what an attorney will tell for $200-500 too.

 

[bdb]

Wow, that's bizarre. I was naturalized 2 years ago and don't recall that on my paperwork. I would have had to say yes but none of the answers I gave required an explanation. I guess they made some "improvements" to the process.

 

[sbi]

Wow, that's bizarre. I was naturalized 2 years ago and don't recall that on my paperwork. I would have had to say yes but none of the answers I gave required an explanation. I guess they made some "improvements" to the process.

Definitely an addition. Looking at the current form version, it is from 9/13/13. I applied (and naturalized) last year before that and I too do not recall this question, even though I got my LTC after becoming a citizen so my answer would be 'NO', but this is an easy one...OP should not have any issue, dilemma or concern at all.

 

[EnglishBob]

I was scratching my head since I filled out my N-400 Q4 of last year. Turns out they've greatly expanded the questions in section 10 (now section 11). Now it covers revolutionaries, extremists and terrorists.


As for your question Jordan, I'll +1 the 'be honest and provide corroborating documentation' on additional paper. If you haven't already gone thru this here's how it will work:

1. answer questions truthfully, include photocopies of licenses and a cover letter if applicable.

2. Send off the packet and wait......much shorter now than it used to be.

3. You will get a letter in the mail with your interview date or more likely a request for more documentation.

4. You may get a further letter requesting that you bring additional documentation to the interview.

Don't sweat it, I drove myself crazy for what was actually a very relaxed interview with immigration.

Hi guys,

I know this is a long shot, but maybe someone has gone through the process before and can chime in on my conundrum:

I am about to file my US naturalization paperwork and [hopefully] become a citizen sometime next year. In the process of filling out the 21-page form I came upon the following question:

"Did you ever sell, give, or provide weapons to any person, or help another person sell, give, or provide weapons to any person?"

The interesting thing is, this question is listed amongst questions like "Are you a member of a terrorist organization?" and "Were you involved in genocide?" and all "yes" answers in that group require additional explanation in writing.

Here is my question: since when are legal gun sales lumped together with genocide and terrorism? I am a legal permanent resident (over 14 years in the US), hold a resident LTC-A in MA and a non-resident P&R in NH, and have been [legally] buying and selling weapons from dealers and individuals (same as most people on this website, I presume). Why do I need a justification?

And if anyone has gone through the naturalization process, maybe they can share whether they were delayed or excessively questioned regarding their weapons sales?

Thanks!
--Jordan

 

[sbi]

.

 

[Smash05]

I advised that honestly because I have no idea how an immigration official is going to accept an addendum to the paperwork, whether answering yes will cause an automatic denial - I am not an immigration attorney and I don't know the answer. My experience as an attorney in many other areas and aspects informs me that some beurocrats have no sense of humor, are pedantic, etc. Given that the OP may have invested time and money in becoming a naturalized citizen, I would not want that investment to be for naught if he answers a question improperly or not to the likeing of a nameless faceless official.

 

[WatchCityCPA]

Hi guys,

I know this is a long shot, but maybe someone has gone through the process before and can chime in on my conundrum:

I am about to file my US naturalization paperwork and [hopefully] become a citizen sometime next year. In the process of filling out the 21-page form I came upon the following question:

"Did you ever sell, give, or provide weapons to any person, or help another person sell, give, or provide weapons to any person?"

The interesting thing is, this question is listed amongst questions like "Are you a member of a terrorist organization?" and "Were you involved in genocide?" and all "yes" answers in that group require additional explanation in writing.

Here is my question: since when are legal gun sales lumped together with genocide and terrorism? I am a legal permanent resident (over 14 years in the US), hold a resident LTC-A in MA and a non-resident P&R in NH, and have been [legally] buying and selling weapons from dealers and individuals (same as most people on this website, I presume). Why do I need a justification?

And if anyone has gone through the naturalization process, maybe they can share whether they were delayed or excessively questioned regarding their weapons sales?

Thanks!
--Jordan

Listen to Atty. Foley and everybody else on the thread - answer yes, explain, attach copy of LTC, done.

Was going to chime in that I went through naturalization myself, but did not recall those questions... but it's already taken care of.

You'll be fine - the hard part was getting the green card and keeping your nose clean through the 5 years until you can get your citizenship. The actual naturalization is mostly a formality - don't sweat it. Just make sure you do not fall in any last moment perjury trap.

Congratulations on being so close - remember to register to vote as soon as you are eligible.

 

[mclina]

I agree with answering honestly and supplying the appropriate backup documentation.

But would this include copies of any FA-10's or eFA-10's that you may have filed? What if you don't have copies for every transaction?

Hopefully it's not a big deal, and congratulations on becoming one of us.

 

[WatchCityCPA]

I agree with answering honestly and supplying the appropriate backup documentation.

But would this include copies of any FA-10's or eFA-10's that you may have filed? What if you don't have copies for every transaction?

Hopefully it's not a big deal, and congratulations on becoming one of us.

Seems to require a Y/N answer followed by a brief - I have an LTC and have purchased and sold firearms in the past. Never volunteer information that is not specifically asked for... and even then, check with a lawyer to see if they have a legal basis to request it.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I agree with answering honestly and supplying the appropriate backup documentation.

But would this include copies of any FA-10's or eFA-10's that you may have filed? What if you don't have copies for every transaction?

Hopefully it's not a big deal, and congratulations on becoming one of us.

IANAL, but would NOT recommend supplying copies of FA-10s!

Merely a copy of the LTC and a brief comment that one is a lawful gun owner and did indeed buy/sell firearms to licensed dealers/licensed individuals. KISS principle works well here and is honest.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Reading the post above mine, I tend to agree. Do NOT supply a copy of the LTC (TMI) but mention that you have one. Let them demand it if they want but don't provide more than is asked for (an explanation for any "yes" answer).

 

[jordan12]

Thanks guys! Your comments have been very helpful. I was planning on answering honestly (yes) on the form, just didn't know what the implications would be.

I will register to vote as soon as I can, unfortunately it will not be on time to make a difference this year...

 

[inerlogic]

the implications would be if you answered "yes" and as explanation your wrote "i used to supply guns to genocidal african rebels"
then they would probably deny your citizenship application and put you up at Gov. Patrick's expense at the raddisson somewhere until your SNAP benefits and obamaphone could kick in......

 

[mpkeelee]

I bet if half of the natural born citizens on here answered those forms we'd be denied or something. And watch Watters world on Fox News. On one he asks them questions from the citizenship test and nobody knows the answers. It's sad

 

[sbi]

I need to chime in again here.

OP - you didn't "quote" the entire question. I am looking at the form now and the supplemental questions to the main one, I have to admit, would probably freak me out too. WTF....they kind'a shoving a "fact" in your face that the person whom you sold a weapon to used it against someone else. and you either knew about it or not. That's how I read this.
I correct part of my answer - do NOT provide copy of your LTC, and after reading the question maybe it is worth while to check with a professional on this. Very tricky IMO.

 

[jordan12]

Good point. I guess I was too focused on the main question to appreciate the intricacy in the wording of the sub-questions. Since I really don't "know" what a person who bought weapon from me was going to do with it (or has done with it), I can honestly answer "No" to both sub-questions without perjury.

But the more I think about it, the more I realize it may be worth a legal consult...

 

[sbi]

Since I really don't "know" what a person who bought weapon from me was going to do with it (or has done with it), I can honestly answer "No" to both sub-questions without perjury.

But the way it is worded they imply that the person whom you sold a weapon to did something "bad" with it de-facto. It should have been worded something like "Did you know what the intentions of the person whom you sold a gun to were", or something like this.

 

[Prepper]

But the way it is worded they imply that the person whom you sold a weapon to did something "bad" with it de-facto. It should have been worded something like "Did you know what the intentions of the person whom you sold a gun to were", or something like this.

Yikes. It is similar to that "are you still beating your wife" question. Yes and no are both bad answers.

 

[weekendracer]

I hope the person doing the interview knows how messed up the laws are in MA and realizes you had to be clean to get the LTC in the first place. Might be the one case of living in MA helping someone.

Edit: I wish I could help out, but my side of the immigration equation is kicking people out. I don't know much of the letting people in side.

 

[WatchCityCPA]

I hope the person doing the interview knows how messed up the laws are in MA and realizes you had to be clean to get the LTC in the first place. Might be the one case of living in MA helping someone.

Edit: I wish I could help out, but my side of the immigration equation is kicking people out. I don't know much of the letting people in side.

I'd be glad to provide you with the facts on why encouraging the right people to immigrate is essential to the long term success of this country if we have a chance to chat in person... you planning to be at Monadnock this November for the pumpkin shoot?

 

[TBalls]

I need to chime in again here.

OP - you didn't "quote" the entire question. I am looking at the form now and the supplemental questions to the main one, I have to admit, would probably freak me out too. WTF....they kind'a shoving a "fact" in your face that the person whom you sold a weapon to used it against someone else. and you either knew about it or not. That's how I read this.
I correct part of my answer - do NOT provide copy of your LTC, and after reading the question maybe it is worth while to check with a professional on this. Very tricky IMO.

I don't really see how this is any trickier. If he didn't have any prior knowledge of a person's intent to either use the weapon against another person or give it to someone who'd use it against another person, the answer is a simple 'NO' to those two. The word 'that' is only slightly more direct than if they had used 'whether'; I'm as paranoid as the next guy, but I don't believe they're stating this as an assumed fact.

The primary question should still be a qualified YES, but that basically amounts to a lie detector test in this case.

 

[sbi]

I don't really see how this is any trickier. If he didn't have any prior knowledge of a person's intent to either use the weapon against another person or give it to someone who'd use it against another person, the answer is a simple 'NO' to those two. The word 'that' is only slightly more direct than if they had used 'whether'; I'm as paranoid as the next guy, but I don't believe they're stating this as an assumed fact.

The primary question should still be a qualified YES, but that basically amounts to a lie detector test in this case.

They way I read it - "...that the person was going to use..." - there is an implication that the person either did use it, or intended to use it (against someone else) and he/she was caught. They kind'a make a statement: The person did something bad with it/intended to do something bad - DID YOU KNOW ABOUT IT beforehand.

I am not saying that this is the intention of whoever compiled this form and added this question, however, if anything comes up down the road and questions are asked, I am sure that there would be different interpretations to these questions and the answers to it, and this is something that should be looked at before it is submitted, IMO.

As I said in my first response - did you ever sell, yes or no - that's a simple question and simple answer and there is a clear and legal explanation to it. The two sub questions add a twist to it in the way they are written.

 

[jordan12]

Thanks again to all of you for the helpful discussion. Sounds like the general consensus here is in-line with my reading and understanding of the form. All I can hope now is that the interviewer is not a hard-core anti-gun activist.

 

[drgrant]

I agree with the above. That's what an attorney will tell for $200-500 too.

This, anything else is overthinking it.

-Mike

 

[weekendracer]

I'd be glad to provide you with the facts on why encouraging the right people to immigrate is essential to the long term success of this country if we have a chance to chat in person... you planning to be at Monadnock this November for the pumpkin shoot?

Hey, I'm all for good people coming here. I'm against letting countries put off their problems on us by releasing their prison vans at the border. Also, if a country does not regulate who comes in, it is not a country at that point. My job, at least until recently, was to find people who did not enter or remain in legal status and return them to their country of origin. People here legally never had, nor will have, any issues with me.