Mitchell's Mauser. I put a depost on one, but I'm wondering if I made a mistake

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Walked into my favorite gun shop in mason nh today and came across a nazi Mauser with all the marking there. I have been wanting a non "peened" nazi Mauser for a while but I don't have the 800+ they seem to go for. It was labeled as a Mitchells Mauser, obviously refinished but with the seemingly original marking ( 1939 date, code 42 and no peening )

I'm a novice, poor collector that likes to have these gun to 1. Shoot 2. I love the history with them ( why I was excited about the 1939 date ) and 3 hopefully to have a ok collection that goes up in value for my kids someday.

The gun is currently in their layaway closet ( as I'm poor and that's the easiest way for my to buy an occasional fun item to put in the safe ( screw credit cards )

Price was $400

Am I an idiot
 
You got to examine it. No shipping or transfer fees. You like it. You want it. You can pay for it on your terms, and it's not outrageous.

I say, you will have a gun that will shoot, and still be a good heirloom. If you are happy, then all is good.
 
People complain about Mitchell's Mausers but the bottom line is if your happy then don't worry about it. I have seen a couple and they look super nice compared to my recent purchase.
 
**DRB** said:
Walked into my favorite gun shop in mason nh today and came across a nazi Mauser with all the marking there. I have been wanting a non "peened" nazi Mauser for a while but I don't have the 800+ they seem to go for. It was labeled as a Mitchells Mauser, obviously refinished but with the seemingly original marking ( 1939 date, code 42 and no peening )

I'm a novice, poor collector that likes to have these gun to 1. Shoot 2. I love the history with them ( why I was excited about the 1939 date ) and 3 hopefully to have a ok collection that goes up in value for my kids someday.

The gun is currently in their layaway closet ( as I'm poor and that's the easiest way for my to buy an occasional fun item to put in the safe ( screw credit cards )

Price was $400

Am I an idiot
Click to expand...

1. No collector value as it is a Mitchell Mauser. Nazi and code markings will be original, but some small parts will be ground and restamped to match.
2. Poor resale value, see #1.
3. If you want a nice rearsenaled shooter, you could do worse. The one I had was a great shooter.
4. How is the bore condition?
5. $400 is $50 less than an RC in my local store.
6. So this boils down to one question: do you want a shooter or a collector piece?

It seems to me that in your case a decent RC be better; it will (1) shoot just as well and (2) it will have more historical and collectible value as the parts are original with the history of WWII use and Russian capture.

MS
 
Ok, thanks for the responses....

Majspud, why does a Russian capture retain value and a mitchel gun does not? Arent they essentially the same thing ( a mitchel gun most likely being a ex gun anyway). If they have both been refinished that what's the difference

Ps I'm not arguing your suggestion at all as im not knowledgeable.... Just curious

Edit: what's your local store?

To answer your other questions

Bore was very very good and I don't or can't really at this point call myself a "collector" I'm a guy with a C&R and a real love for guns with history and a total lack of funds to buy truly "collectors" pieces. My only two real pieces are a "correct" ww2 SA Garand and a lend/lease Remington 1917 with the red .3006 paint still intact....
 
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DRB,

Most collectors trash Mitchell's reputation because of misleading and outright false advertising. Mitchell's takes RC Mausers and runs them through their rearsenal process. They sand the stock and refinish the wood and metal, destroying any collector value. Most RC marks are obliterated in the process, but the stock number on the left butt and the "X" capture mark are dead giveaways to their origin.

RCs have not been refinished in this sense. The Russians rearsenaled theirs in a historical context in preparation for arming the 5th element for WWIII. They were still making 8mm ammo into the 90's through sheer bureaucratic inertia. Some parts were refinished, some not. Mitchell's rearsenals them for profit and claims them to be original finds.

As to whether RCs will maintain their value is undertermined. Some see them as parts rifles and others as legitimate historical collectibles. The prices have doubled in the last five years, but mostly in my opinion to supply and demand. I have a fellow board member looking at a decent RC for $325. Most see value in a RC to get a shooter at a decent price that maintains some 'legitimacy' which Mitchell does not have. Some look at a RC to get a rare code. I wouldn't turn my nose up at a S/27/G or S/147/G - first year issues. Myself, I have taken two RCs and restored them to original condition; S/42G and a '43 bnz SSZZA4 depot rifle.

MS
 
I would take 2 R/Cs over a MM any day,I feel bad for people that drop the coin on one thinking the are fresh from germany.

Spud speaks the truth.
 
majspud said:
DRB,
As to whether RCs will maintain their value is undertermined. Some see them as parts rifles and others as legitimate historical collectibles. The prices have doubled in the last five years, but mostly in my opinion to supply and demand. I have a fellow board member looking at a decent RC for $325. Most see value in a RC to get a shooter at a decent price that maintains some 'legitimacy' which Mitchell does not have. Some look at a RC to get a rare code. I wouldn't turn my nose up at a S/27/G or S/147/G - first year issues. Myself, I have taken two RCs and restored them to original condition; S/42G and a '43 bnz SSZZA4 depot rifle.

MS
Click to expand...

That board member would be me. You can always resell an RC as a collectible. The mitchells reputation thing makes people steer clear. It takes away value just like reblued steel or refinished stock to a collector piece.......... but like it is on steroids. Some people are passionate about their hatred for Mitchells. it keeps others away just out of concern.

If you want a great shooter that is really flashy and looks really nice and you dont care about historical value, keep the Mitchells.

if you want something that is a little more historically correct, there are a ton of others in the $350- $2000+ range. You can find one in your price range you will like. Just go to Gunbroker and search Mauser. You will have at least 25 pages to look at.

Get what you want , get what you are happy with. Don't worry what anyone thinks. I just want you to go in with eyes open and get what you are after

BTW- I believe the RCs will go up in value as the more correct pieces continue upward. I mean what is left for the beginner/budget collector?

just my .02
 
If it looks good and shoots good then you're all set. Its a little on the high side price wise. I saw an add recently for missmatched RCs for about $350 total but I'm sure they don't look as good as the rifle you're getting.

When it comes down to K98 choices today unless you're scoring from a private sale or getting in on an auction for a good price, you can either have a ratty looking historically correct rifle slapped together from a bin of parts by the Russians, or you can have a clean one thats been reworked by a US company.
 
SKS Ray said:
When it comes down to K98 choices today unless you're scoring from a private sale or getting in on an auction for a good price, you can either have a ratty looking historically correct rifle slapped together from a bin of parts by the Russians, or you can have a clean one thats been reworked by a US company.
Click to expand...

+1
If you are looking for a nice looking but not correct mauser as a shooter than a Mitchells will be perfect. I just wish they didnt have to always polish their bolts. Purists dont like Mitchells guns because they hump numbers etc. But since they usualy have a Mitchells import mark they are easy to spot and dont seem to be deceiving anyone to me.
 
noddaduma said:
No he's calling Mitchell Mausers turds.
Click to expand...

The bottom line is that its a K98 rifle. No matter if it was scrubbed and reworked by the Czechs, Russians, Yugoslavians, or a US distributor. Its no different than the Federal Ordnance K98 and VZ24 Mauser types from the early 80s.

For those of you who don't know, Federal Ordnance was an importer that acquired a ton of rusty Mausers and reworked them for sale in the US market with their own stamps and receiver markings. Were they crap rifles? Hell no! Many of them were rechambered in .308 and looked/shot great.

Mitchells is doing the same thing today but keeping them in 8mm. They'e just re-worked, re-finished Mausers done by a distributor.

Would I buy one? If I didn't have a handfull of pristine original rifles already and found one for a good price, probably. Who knows, maybe someday they'll increase in value much like the F.O. rifles did. The supply of Mauser type rifles in Yugoslavia and Russia isn't going to last forever, thats for sure.
 
ok, ok i get it.......


Im going to take a ride back up tomorrow and see how I feel about it one more time.

From my point of view at the moment, at my budget Im either getting a Russian parts gun or a American parts gun seems to be the idea..... Neither the russian capture nor the MM is a complete original rifle and I cant afford a true original anyways.

You guys have mentioned gun broker, but as you can see Im definately a novice. It seems as though Im probably going to make a bigger mistake on gunbroker.

As far as price goes $400 didnt seem bad, but I guess Ive been looking in the wrong place. Ive see websites selling peened k98 for over $300

Thanks for giving me something to think about
 
SKS Ray said:
You're calling a K98 a turd?!?
Click to expand...

Never would I call a K98 a turd, Ray. A Mitchells Mauser is a polished turd. They sell them as matching when all they are is a pimp shined, restamped to match. bleached and sanded stocks, unblued bolts. I could go on and on. These people take advantage of buyers who do not know any better and sell them for more than they are worth. People that buy them find out too late that what they really have is something that is not what it was sold as. They market them as matching and they are restamping parts!! I love my k98s. Anyone that knows me knows that I am either shooting a K98 or a G43. So in short, I would never call a Mauser a turd, just a Mitchells abortion a turd. It sickens me how these people take advatage of someone looking for a Mauser and thinking they are getting something original.
 
**DRB** said:
ok, ok i get it.......


Im going to take a ride back up tomorrow and see how I feel about it one more time.

From my point of view at the moment, at my budget Im either getting a Russian parts gun or a American parts gun seems to be the idea..... Neither the russian capture nor the MM is a complete original rifle and I cant afford a true original anyways.

You guys have mentioned gun broker, but as you can see Im definately a novice. It seems as though Im probably going to make a bigger mistake on gunbroker.

As far as price goes $400 didnt seem bad, but I guess Ive been looking in the wrong place. Ive see websites selling peened k98 for over $300

Thanks for giving me something to think about
Click to expand...
The Russian captures have a history that the Mitchells can never have. The Russians collected these by the thousands, perhaps millions and rearsenalled them all. They didnt care about matching numbers, they cared that they functioned 100%.
 
daltrey99 said:
Never would I call a K98 a turd, Ray. A Mitchells Mauser is a polished turd. They sell them as matching when all they are is a pimp shined, restamped to match. bleached and sanded stocks, unblued bolts. I could go on and on. These people take advantage of buyers who do not know any better and sell them for more than they are worth. People that buy them find out too late that what they really have is something that is not what it was sold as. They market them as matching and they are restamping parts!! I love my k98s. Anyone that knows me knows that I am either shooting a K98 or a G43. So in short, I would never call a Mauser a turd, just a Mitchells abortion a turd. It sickens me how these people take advatage of someone looking for a Mauser and thinking they are getting something original.
Click to expand...

I see your point now and can understand why some purists feel the way they do towards Mitchell's. They do misslead people in their adds, no doubt about that.

As for the OP... DRB, check your PMs for a link.
 
SKS Ray said:
I see your point now and can understand why some purists feel the way they do towards Mitchell's. They do misslead people in their adds, no doubt about that.

As for the OP... DRB, check your PMs for a link.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ray for ther link and everyone else for the input.

Perhaps I should clarify one thing ( while I doubt it will change any opinions ) I have zero expectations that the MM is a "original" gun, even with my little knowladge just looking at it will tell you that. I dont know what MM says about their guns or what ads they run. Ive never seen their website and honestly dont care. This specific gun does not have matching numbers and was not advertised to me in the store that way. What is does have that interests me is all of the original marking on the reciever, un peened, and a year of MFG I find interesting (1939)

What Im curious to know is does MM "fake" reciever markings/year of mfg/mfg code???

I want a mauser that has its origianl nazi markings and I would like a gun with the year of mfg being 1939 of 1944....... when I purchased a czech vz24 I didnt care about the "crest" being there or not I cared about one dated 1938 because of the history involved with that year. When I purchased a garand there was only 2 years I would have purchased 44 or 45 as those are the years my grandfather spent in germany. Likewise with a mauser I want one of 3 years 1939 1944 or 1945 for all the same reasons above, and the nazi swastikas have to be there....

For me these few guns in my collection have served my personal interest in the war, my families involvment, and have also served very well as education to non "gun owners" I have introduced many antis to the hobby and sport of firearms by introducing them to firearms that have interesting dates and stories that surround them....

If the MM guns are complete fakes and complete reworks, not being the year or mfg code or whatever thats on the reciever than I will definately pass. If there just reworked guns, just like the russian or any of the other old guns than I still may pass but I dont think i will pass just because its a MM



Edit: yup after reading this im pretty sure I just did the infamous NES "hey I just bought something and Im going to ask your opinion but then tell you your wrong when it looks like I made a bad choice" sorry
 
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If the MM has what you are looking for buy it,if you are collecting for personal sentimental value and not collectors value of sorts then it sounds like what you want. 3 out of the 5 RC k98s I have are non pinged birds but the other 2 have clearly visible birds and markings on the stocks.
 
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1945's are tougher to find. 1944 are plentiful as is the 1939's As it is now I have one from all years 39-45 I am working on the pre war ones now. It is hard to say what markings are real on a Mitchells. They have been known to "enhance" markings. I know of a few added deaths head markings that they added. There is a guy from Colorado on Gunbroker that puts up k98's from time to time that were Russian captures that he put more correct parts on and removed the red shellack. He typically sells his for $325-$450. His are respectable rifles. If it we me I would lean more to something lilke that than a Mitchells. 2 of my more favorite factories are JP Sauer's and Berlin Lubecker's Do you have a factory code in mind or just care about the years?
 
daltrey99 said:
1945's are tougher to find. 1944 are plentiful as is the 1939's As it is now I have one from all years 39-45 I am working on the pre war ones now. It is hard to say what markings are real on a Mitchells. They have been known to "enhance" markings. I know of a few added deaths head markings that they added. There is a guy from Colorado on Gunbroker that puts up k98's from time to time that were Russian captures that he put more correct parts on and removed the red shellack. He typically sells his for $325-$450. His are respectable rifles. If it we me I would lean more to something lilke that than a Mitchells. 2 of my more favorite factories are JP Sauer's and Berlin Lubecker's Do you have a factory code in mind or just care about the years?
Click to expand...

I know little about factory codes...... I have assumed for a while that a K98 with intact marking was birds and swastikas was over 700 and out of the price range I wanted to spend ( hell if was going to spend 800 I would pick up another garand or a m1 carbine that I have been lusting after for so long )
 
**DRB** said:
I know little about factory codes...... I have assumed for a while that a K98 with intact marking was birds and swastikas was over 700 and out of the price range I wanted to spend ( hell if was going to spend 800 I would pick up another garand or a m1 carbine that I have been lusting after for so long )
Click to expand...

It took me a while to get the ones I have that fit to my liking. What you want at your price is out that but may take a little searching.I will keep my eye open for you. I only have I k98 that is peened and was going to get rid of it but boy does it shoot nicely. It is a 1940 237 code Berlin Lubecker. I have not paid over $350 for any of mine and like I said all but one have the eagles and swastikas in tact. Of course the prices have gone up since i last bought one ( a year) . That said, you can find one with all markings present for $350-$450 they are out there but some searching has to be done. I will shoot you over a link when I find a few if you want me to.
 
I think you should stay away from the MM. As you have stated, you are at the beginning stages of collecting K98's. I would predict that if you bought this MM you will, little by little, grow to regret it as you learn more and more about K98's. As a nice 8mm rifle, it might be worth $400. But as a collectible K98 it will never, IMHO, grow in appreciation. The collectability of the RC is that is was either dropped in the battlefield when the Nazi carrying was killed, dropped in the battlefield when the Nazi carrying it was running away or dropped when the Nazi put his hands up to surrender. It has a history that is unique to K98's. You know a RC was there and did it. Because they were reworked post war by the Russians they will never have the same value as a non reworked rifle, but they will always have a value to a collector, one that will most likely increase over time. A MM rifle on the other hand will most likely only increase in value due to inflation. Most people who buy new MM and then sell them take a bath. You were smart to ask. I think you can pick up a nice mismatched K98 for under $500. I would look for one like that.
 
I understand you're wanting to go with the gunshop MM from a financial standpoint. If a shop will put something aside for you and allow you to pay for it over time, that's a big help. But there are also some distributors out there (and sellers on GB) that will do the same thing.

I have to agree with most of the other folks - better a real RC mauser than a faked MM one.

*
 
So, if by chance I decide to go with the MM for my 1st k98 will I not be allowed at mil surplus shoots or will I have sharp or hard object hurled in my direction if I show up with it???[wink]

I also have an interest in the czech capture 98k with the winter trigger guard that Ray sent me the link to, maybe Ill buy that one as well...
 
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Here is my recent purchase, un-molested.


DSCN0083-1.jpg

DSCN0082-1.jpg

DSCN0084.jpg
 

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