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Manville USPSA this coming weekend
- Thread starter 10mmdave
- Start date
Yes, regular match.
Why, you wanted to try to move up?![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Naw, need a Limited classification for the ProAm in Oklahoma in June, guess I'll
shoot Westfield in May and hope the scores count then, can't see how it will
since they don't come out till the 15th of the next month [sad2]
really sad part is it don't matter since what ever I get for scores will make me
Master anyways, even if I shoot B class scores (happened wit my Open scores)
Yes, regular match.
Why, you wanted to try to move up?
What happened?
The last 5 years, Manville's April match has been a special classifier. I was hoping for one this year, but I'll be there anyway.
I don't know why. Never asked, that's my man Matt's decision. Since we've been shooting small classifier-like stages all winter, I think it is a great idea to have a regular match with freestyle stages. Of course, on top of that I think the whole classification system is a load of crap.
Yep
BAUS had a classifier match. Westfield is having a classifier match. All the indoor stages have been stand and deliver.... Its time to get out and stretch our legs.
GOOOOOOO Team Donkey Punch
i like off topic
so i'll ask, why is the classification system painful?
and we will just have a normal match this weekend. The classifier matches have gotten old.
We used to do them typically due to a major match coming up relatively soon. In the past the Aware was close by, as was Area 7, and they tended to be in or around June or July, so if you didnt have a class yet, you could pretty much get one by just showing up and provided I got motivated to send the scores in quickly and not wait around for people to contact me for up to two weeks after a match saying there was a mistake with their division or something, then forget to send the scores in timely.
But we've got no Area match close by, we've got no Aware match to my knowledge, we've got no summer blast, so really, there isn't anything pressing to get people classified for that is nearby.
Plus, we have significantly more active clubs now.
In the past we had only 3 sundays occupied with matches, now we've got all 4, and more clubs in the nearby states, with multiple matches on weekends, and it looks like there was a pretty active winter schedule.
So, if you dont have a class by now, you either just joined probably arent shooting the area 7 in the land of far far away, or you're more of a procrastinator than I am, and I don't think there are many others who have their GM card in procrastinating.
so i'll ask, why is the classification system painful?
and we will just have a normal match this weekend. The classifier matches have gotten old.
We used to do them typically due to a major match coming up relatively soon. In the past the Aware was close by, as was Area 7, and they tended to be in or around June or July, so if you didnt have a class yet, you could pretty much get one by just showing up and provided I got motivated to send the scores in quickly and not wait around for people to contact me for up to two weeks after a match saying there was a mistake with their division or something, then forget to send the scores in timely.
But we've got no Area match close by, we've got no Aware match to my knowledge, we've got no summer blast, so really, there isn't anything pressing to get people classified for that is nearby.
Plus, we have significantly more active clubs now.
In the past we had only 3 sundays occupied with matches, now we've got all 4, and more clubs in the nearby states, with multiple matches on weekends, and it looks like there was a pretty active winter schedule.
So, if you dont have a class by now, you either just joined probably arent shooting the area 7 in the land of far far away, or you're more of a procrastinator than I am, and I don't think there are many others who have their GM card in procrastinating.
I think I was the only one that said it was annoying and painful- maybe a little harsh but as a relatively new USPSA shooter here is my feedback:
There are a ton of classifiers, none of which really reflect skills in proportion to skills required in the matches I've attended. However I see the challenge in doing it other ways. I've shot some classifiers that I thought I did poorly but did relatively well. Some I thought I'd done very well, only to find out I didn't do so well. All it takes is a GM to totally smoke a classifier to make it off balance. Maybe this averages out...
It could take me literally several months just to get classified in one division, and it's not always easy to figure out what you classification is until it's posted. I think this is brunt of the "painful" part I was referring to.
On the other hand I realize we all just compete in one big division anyway.
It is one heck of a fun sport... I'll say that for sure!
Dave- all you need are four classifier scores in any one division for your initial classification (assuming you are a USPSA member). You have to be close by now, yes?
Although it is not the best system, it is a decent measure of one's shooting ability - perhaps not one's moving and shooting ability, or one's ability to break down a stage, all of which has a huge effect on your overall standing at a match.
Guys correct me if I am wrong, but if a GM in your division smokes the classifier at a match it really only skews the scores for the match not necessarily the other competitors classifications as these are calculated against a national average.
Dave if you are wondering what percentage you shot on a classifier all you need to do is take your hit factor from the match scores and visit this site.
http://www.classifiercalc.com/
Pick you division, pick the classifier shot, enter your HF and hit the submit button. Presto! it will give you your % for that classifier.
The system can be manipulated either way. it rewards Hero or Zero and does not require consistency.
My understanding of the classifier system is that they take the average of the top ten HF and that becomes the High HF. Or the stage is shot at a Area match and High HF is based on that.
I have heard that there are/were classifiers that have no GM scores. There were classifiers that were to easy to get high hit factor.
Just look at classifiers as just a small stage, give it no more no less weight, which is tough if you are trying to move up
i'll correct you
your classifications are based on the high hit factors for any specific classifier, and chances are, on say, 99.9999% of the stages the high hit factor was set by a GM shooter
thats how your class is supposed to be determined, your % based on the best in the country
it's not an average of everyones scores
you see your score on a classifier for a % of the match, which doesn't translate at all into your national avg.
a GM who smokes a classifier in a match doesnt skew the results at all. you still get what you shot. you just might not see your scores at the % you're used to seeing because you are no longer being averaged against average shooters
Since we're off topic...
I agree the Classification system could be improved - but that's a challenge in it of itself.
I see why the USPSA sets the type of stages they do for the Classification system - it's for consistency. For example if you shot Classifier CM99-11 at a club match here in Mass - it would be the same setup at a club match in California.
Trying to duplicate a "field course" for a Classifier would be difficult and would most likely not be consistent from one club to another.
I feel the best measurement of ones ability is to see what percentage was shot at a major match (nationals, Area...) but the problem with that is that not every shooter makes it to a major match.
The Classifiers (imho) do show a level of ones ability for the basics of shooting - draw, grip, accuracy, reloads, etc. - but as mentioned above does not show ones ability to breakdown a stage or movement.
I agree the Classification system could be improved - but that's a challenge in it of itself.
I see why the USPSA sets the type of stages they do for the Classification system - it's for consistency. For example if you shot Classifier CM99-11 at a club match here in Mass - it would be the same setup at a club match in California.
Trying to duplicate a "field course" for a Classifier would be difficult and would most likely not be consistent from one club to another.
I feel the best measurement of ones ability is to see what percentage was shot at a major match (nationals, Area...) but the problem with that is that not every shooter makes it to a major match.
The Classifiers (imho) do show a level of ones ability for the basics of shooting - draw, grip, accuracy, reloads, etc. - but as mentioned above does not show ones ability to breakdown a stage or movement.
Thanks Matt. That adds some clarity for me. It can be a bit confusing. At the end of the day I try to do what Mike says and just shoot them like I would any other stage. It works for me if I can forget about it being a classifier.
I'm confused a bit again. Forget the match for a sec. If a GM (or anyone else for that matter) smokes a classifier and beats the best current HF for that classifier- then your percentage is now based on the NEW percentage correct?
The whole High HF is an enigma. I believe, but could be wrong, USPSA HQ updates the high HF occasionally based on trend, then taking the top 10 for the new high hit factor.
So just because someone shoots a 115%, that HF doesn't not automatically become the new 100%
probably about 6 years ago I figured out what number to multiply your hit factor by to determine what your national % was for each classifier you shot. It was simple, just really time consuming finding the hit factors at the matches someone shot a particular classifier if I hadn't shot it.
My numbers still work. So, either the high hit factors haven't changed or I haven't run across one of them that has been updated yet.
if the figures are still correct, in open, if you multiply your hit factor times 6.8988923 for bang and clang last week at harvard, you'll get your national %
Back on topic-
What? Manville this weekend?
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
You guys aren't very nice! Seriously thanks though. I will be shooting my choice plastic gun in production... Everytime I try to stick to a plan everyone always tempts me!
Dan maybe at a practice I could check it out. I've tried Pete's limited guns so I know what it's all about! Thanks for the offer.
Dan maybe at a practice I could check it out. I've tried Pete's limited guns so I know what it's all about! Thanks for the offer.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Next time I see you maybe I could check it out. My G35 is light weight too.
I usually don't like trying other's equipment... because it's inevitable that I'll want it!!
If you're going to want something, at least want something you'll like.
hedgehound
NES Member
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I tried that calculator, it seems to be pretty accurate.
I made an observation: for the same HF and the same classifier the calculator occasionally gives higher percentage for Limited than for L10. Say, for Fluffy's revenge 1 and HF = 6 (pure theoretical excersize) Limited % will be 45.2008%; and L10 % will be 43.5445%.
Same excersize for Bang and Clang and HF = 6: Limited and L10 % will be 49.1804%.
Is that difference based on reality?
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Spot on Dave!
You're a quick study.
I am hoping to get to the match Sunday but I twisted my ankle in the yard today and am wishing it WAS a classifier match!![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Oh well, I might just still come. I don't move that fast anyway...........
You're a quick study.
I am hoping to get to the match Sunday but I twisted my ankle in the yard today and am wishing it WAS a classifier match!
Oh well, I might just still come. I don't move that fast anyway...........
