LTC reinstatement question

[Rob Boudrie]

Some police departments take the position that an admission to sufficient facts as part of a CWOF is the same as a plea of guilty for the purposes of firearms licensing, although attorneys I have spoken to disagree. (See http://www.stow-ma.gov/Pages/StowMA_Police/firefaq1 for an example, including their cite to what they believe is the statutory basis for this).

And, before you conclude that the solution is "just don't admit to sufficient facts", it's worth noting that many courts routinely require this as a condition for any CWOF.

Are you sure you aren't a lawyer?

I'm sure - but you almost have to be in order to be a gun owner in this state

 

[Rob Boudrie]

That opinion of the Stow Police is utter nonsense.

I believe the Stow police lifted that opinion from an article an attorney wrote (which I am unfortunately unable to locate) in which the author misconstrued the meaning of the statement "If a defendant, notwithstanding the requirements set forth hereinbefore, attempts to enter a plea or statement consisting of an admission of facts sufficient for finding of guilt, or some similar statement, such admission shall be deemed a tender of a plea of guilty for purposes of the procedures set forth in this section." contained in ch278s18.

But, not all police departments subscribe to the Stow model: http://www.police.town.andover.ma.us/police/files/Forms/APD%20form%2008-09%20LTCFID%20application.pdf

The writeup the Stow PD provides, as well as the one from Andover that takes the directly opposition position are both commonly found on PD web sites, often differing only in the individual PD name. It appears that one individual's inaccurate interpretation of the law has taken on a life of it's own.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

In fact if there is anyone out there denied by Stowe for this reason I will represent you for free.

Jesse - Cool offer, rep point added. FYI, there are many departments that use the same boilerplate on their FID/LTC info page - sufficiently identical in wording to be a copy, not simply repetition of the concept.

 

[DSoM11]

It was dismissed by the judge after my attorney filed a motion to dismissed due to lack of due process and improper police procedure.

Good for you. That was the right answer based on what you had told us. Yeah, you want a lawyer to help you here. Either that or move to a free state to avoid this crap all together.

BTW: Dismissed with the prosecution's blessing or CWOF?

 

[terraformer]

It was dismissed by the judge after my attorney filed a motion to dismissed due to lack of due process and improper police procedure.

That may work against you wrt "suitability" if your cleo is a prick but hopefully you're close to closing this chapter in your life. Get a lawyer to help with the license and keep us posted.

 

[appraiser]

dismissed with prejudice?

if not they can refile the charges IIRC IANAL

 

[DSoM11]

How long do they have to do this? This was dismissed on Sept. 29th. I haven't recieved a summons and I called the court house to make sure there were no outstanding charges against me in case they decided to screw me again. I was told no.

dismissed with prejudice?

if not they can refile the charges IIRC IANAL

 

[terraformer]

How long do they have to do this? This was dismissed on Sept. 29th. I haven't recieved a summons and I called the court house to make sure there were no outstanding charges against me in case they decided to screw me again. I was told no.

Find out from the lawyer who handled it but if it was dismissed on technical grounds, unless the judge really got it wrong, the case is really high profile, or the crime is egregious, I have to imagine they will likely just walk away. It isn't worth their time. Where's the victim looking for justice? There is none. I suspect you will fall into the latter category. There may be a chance they COULD refile, but the likelihood they would is very low. Again, ask your original lawyer if they can refile. Then ask what the chances of that are and what should you do to best avoid a refiling of those charges.

 

[appraiser]

This is why you pay a competent firearms lawyer, and we have at least 3 here who are worth every penny you'd pay them

The Judge dismissed on a motion.

Hmm isn't there a similar case heading to the SJC right now over gun storage charges that were dismissed at a DC level and the DA is appealing

The cops can refile the charges if they were not dismissed WITH PREJUDICE. The Prosecutor can appeal any ruling the Judge made to a higher court, prejudice or not.

Lawyer up, really, you are up to your ass in alligators right now and all you wanted to do was drain the swamp.

 

[DSoM11]

How long do they have to refile? There must be a limitation.

This is why you pay a competent firearms lawyer, and we have at least 3 here who are worth every penny you'd pay them

The Judge dismissed on a motion.

Hmm isn't there a similar case heading to the SJC right now over gun storage charges that were dismissed at a DC level and the DA is appealing

The cops can refile the charges if they were not dismissed WITH PREJUDICE. The Prosecutor can appeal any ruling the Judge made to a higher court, prejudice or not.

Lawyer up, really, you are up to your ass in alligators right now and all you wanted to do was drain the swamp.

 

[appraiser]

yep the statute of limitations

 

[Len-2A Training]

Didn't I tell you to go to law school Len!

Jesse, I almost did . . . back in the day when DEC wanted to make Patent Attorneys of engineers. Had DEC set up a more attractive program to accomplish this, I would have. I did take the LSAT and sat down with the Dean of the Law School, then advised DEC HR that their proposed program had serious problems and decided not to pursue it.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If you ever appear in a court as a defendant, or prospective defendant, it is advisable to obtain court certified copies of all records that prove the disposition of your case at that time. It's much easier to (a) have the records to produce when needed, and (b) If the other party insists on confirming with the court directly, the records will have all info need to quickly find the case. It's also much cheaper to get your documentation set together while an attorney is on the case than to conduct a scavenger hunt years later.

 

[pwatkins]

If you ever appear in a court as a defendant, or prospective defendant, it is advisable to obtain court certified copies of all records that prove the disposition of your case at that time. It's much easier to (a) have the records to produce when needed, and (b) If the other party insists on confirming with the court directly, the records will have all info need to quickly find the case. It's also much cheaper to get your documentation set together while an attorney is on the case than to conduct a scavenger hunt years later.

Excellent advice which I will provide to each client at the time of the disposition of their case.

 

[DSoM11]

Well guys, thank you for all your help. I have just got my LTC-A reinstated with a Target and Hunting Restriction for one year.

 

[terraformer]

Well guys, thank you for all your help. I have just got my LTC-A reinstated with a Target and Hunting Restriction for one year.

Glad to hear it. BTW, the restrictions will be lifted after a year?

 

[DSoM11]

Glad to hear it. BTW, the restrictions will be lifted after a year?

Yep, I'll have no restrictions after one year.

 

[GSG]

I hate some of the foolish gun laws they have in this state. But, the law is the law and I obey them. I find it hard to feel sorry for someone who doesn't.

+1 for the common sense..

Pffft. I disagree with you two. The below quote is from a thread I posted in elsewhere on NES regarding law abiding gun owners knowing all the gun laws.

Before I joined NES, I was a Mass. gun owner who assumed that he'd learned all the laws he needed to know in his basic firearms safety course. I've always been a law abiding citizen, and I don't like the prospect of jail, so when I lived in Mass. I did my very best to stay on top of all the Mass. laws. Then I began some serious reading and research in the Mass. Gun Laws section of this forum, and I realized just how little I knew.

Do you know how to properly identify the difference between pre-ban and post-ban mags for all of your rifles and pistols (and all the different brands of aftermarket mags that fit your guns)?

Are all of your imported rifles configured 922R compliant?

Do you know you're required by Mass. law to check LTC status to sell, give or lend someone an empty magazine, even if it's not high-cap?

Do you know that it's legal for someone to open carry a low cap pistol with a Class B license, but if they get into a vehicle with that gun on they're in violation of MGL 140-131C?

Do you know that there's different transport requirements in Mass. for low cap rifles and shotguns versus high cap rifles and shotguns?

Do you know the difference between properties owned by schools (such as restauraunts and rental properties) and "school grounds" as it applies to MGL 269-10j?

Do you know that it's illegal to carry on federal property? Do you know how to identify these mystical federal places where no guns are allowed, even if no signs are posted indicating that no guns are allowed or that you're entering federal property?

Do you know that it's illegal to transport someone else's guns across state lines, even if you both lawfully own them and are committing no crime?

Have you read the CMR's regarding ammo storage? (Do you even know what a CMR is ? I didn't before I found NES). Do you know that there's different limits for how many rounds of centerfire ammo, shotshells and rimfire ammo you can keep in your house without a permit? Do you know the exact number of rounds (and empty shell casings, components, etc.) that you have of each type of ammo, and how close you are to the limit?

Do you know that it's illegal to carry a pistol with a caliber greater than .38 "anywhere birds or mammals may be found" between a half hour after sunset and a half hour before sunrise any day of the year in Mass.? (MGL 131-67, which you've violated if you've taken your dog for a walk at night with a .40 on).

Did you know about all of these state and federal laws? Have you ever violated them (hypothetical question, don't answer)? Or better yet, is it possible that you could have violated them simply because you did not know about them, or about their intricacies?

I agree with you, the law NEEDS to be changed, it isn't fair or even possible to fully understand as written. But I simply can't fault a Massachusetts gun owner for running afoul of these confusing laws.

Look all over this forum, there's countless examples of people not fully grasping the marriage between MA and federal law regarding firearms.

Not a loaded one.

While Glidden and EOPS think that's the case, I disagree.

That opinion of the Stow Police is utter nonsense. They need to speak to the Firearms Unit at the Criminal History Systems Board.

They also need to edit some of the legal info on their website.

http://www.stow-ma.gov/Pages/StowMA_Police/firefaq1

16. IF I HAVE BEEN EITHER CONVICTED OR ADJUDICATED FOR THE COMMISSION OF ANY OF THE ABOVE, AM I AUTOMATICALLY DISQUALIFIED FOR LIFE?
No. The only crimes preventing you from obtaining an FID for life are the following:
a. any violent crime
b. any crime involving the trafficking of weapons
c. any crime involving the trafficking of controlled substances
ALL other disqualifiers are limited to five years from the date of conviction, release of confinement, probation or parole supervision, whichever is last occurring. In other words, if you were convicted of a nonviolent felony, such as larceny, you would have to wait five years before you could apply for an FID

They're leaving out one important fact, which I laid out in another thread on here:

Stuck with an FID? You might be a federally prohibited person

Well guys, thank you for all your help. I have just got my LTC-A reinstated with a Target and Hunting Restriction for one year.

Better than nothing I suppose. Good news for MA.

 

[Scrivener]

The Stow firearms FAQs section is poorly written and contains misinformation.