Locksmith “pressured into selling ghost guns” to undercover agents

Randy Lahey

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Not sure if this has been posted before as the actual arrest happened a year ago. I got this link in a newsletter from the Associated Locksmiths of America. Not the brightest example:
Antioch locksmith gets two years for selling 'ghost guns'

The undercover agent was constantly trying to call me and text me, and I ignored him for months,” Javid wrote, but finally relented in the face of financial hardship. Javid wrote that the tipping point came when he returned to his Antioch home, Little Mike was parked in his driveway, waiting for him.

“I had no idea how (Little Mike) got my address and found out where I lived. … He told me that Bart (the undercover homeland security agent) was looking for me and he’s not happy that I have not been returning his text or calls,” Javid wrote. “Little Mike then explained that Bart is from a biker gang and these guys are not people that you want to ignore or mess with. At that point I was terrified for my safety but more importantly the safety of my whole family.”

Weak defense here Omer. Just say no to “Bart” and “Little Mike”! I hope he at least included a free trigger lock and tried to upsell them on a safe.[rolleyes]
 
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Dennis in MA

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In a free state, (well, free'er than Mass), who cares if the gun has a serial # or not??? Honestly!? I'm in Missouri and I make and sell a gun. Besides ATF for getting some sort of pound-of-flesh, WHO CARES????

Or is this like the Dept of Education where, "well, it's here now, we can't get rid of it." ??? (Dept of Ed was created by Carter. Think on that.)
 

HuntMaine

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In a free state, (well, free'er than Mass), who cares if the gun has a serial # or not??? Honestly!? I'm in Missouri and I make and sell a gun. Besides ATF for getting some sort of pound-of-flesh, WHO CARES????

Or is this like the Dept of Education where, "well, it's here now, we can't get rid of it." ??? (Dept of Ed was created by Carter. Think on that.)

It will never go away, you sell it then it needs a magic number. That way if the gun causes trouble they can trace it
 
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I’m not sure I understand, IDK but I’m not risking my family by doing something that would have the possibility of landing me in prison for a long time.
As far as feeling threatened by a biker gang: I’m not sure how that would go ?
 

Randy Lahey

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I’m not sure I understand, IDK but I’m not risking my family by doing something that would have the possibility of landing me in prison for a long time.
As far as feeling threatened by a biker gang: I’m not sure how that would go ?
Yeah it was a pretty flimsy argument, clearly they had a hard on for the guy, he was allegedly bragging around Oakland to guys with names like Little Mike about how he sells FA SBRs to “Spanish speaking cartel guys”. He was not concerned about his family, or anything else but making money and gaining criminal connections to profit off of firearm prohibition just like the cartels profit off of drug prohibition. “They’ve got mouths to feed too, and are forced into it by gangs, etc.” No one forced him to do anything.
I can only assume his Yelp reviews as a locksmith were less than stellar as well. Probably with one of the scammer outfits... again “mouths to feed”.
 
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namedpipes

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It will never go away, you sell it then it needs a magic number. That way if the gun causes trouble they can trace it

People say that a lot but it is not true.

There is no federal law requiring a person to engage a serial number on a firearm that they manufactured for their personal use even if they later decide to sell it.

Some states (California, I believe) may have such laws. Mass does not.
 
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Not sure if this has been posted before as the actual arrest happened a year ago. I got this link in a newsletter from the Associated Locksmiths of America. Not the brightest example:
Antioch locksmith gets two years for selling 'ghost guns'

The undercover agent was constantly trying to call me and text me, and I ignored him for months,” Javid wrote, but finally relented in the face of financial hardship. Javid wrote that the tipping point came when he returned to his Antioch home, Little Mike was parked in his driveway, waiting for him.

“I had no idea how (Little Mike) got my address and found out where I lived. … He told me that Bart (the undercover homeland security agent) was looking for me and he’s not happy that I have not been returning his text or calls,” Javid wrote. “Little Mike then explained that Bart is from a biker gang and these guys are not people that you want to ignore or mess with. At that point I was terrified for my safety but more importantly the safety of my whole family.”

Weak defense here Omer. Just say no to “Bart” and “Little Mike”! I hope he at least included a free trigger lock and tried to upsell them on a safe.[rolleyes]

If this is what actually happened, is this an actual example of entrapment? The guy refused for months and only relented once undercover agents explicitly threatened him and his family’s safety?
 

Palladin

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If this is what actually happened, is this an actual example of entrapment? The guy refused for months and only relented once undercover agents explicitly threatened him and his family’s safety?

let's see, you're in Federal court, being prosecuted by a branch of the Federal govt, for breaking fed laws, selling guns to a fed agency.....and you think you're getting a fair trial?
 

Randy Lahey

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If this is what actually happened, is this an actual example of entrapment? The guy refused for months and only relented once undercover agents explicitly threatened him and his family’s safety?
Good question, would be interesting to know more details. If he was in fact texting them that he had other buyers lined up and not to waste his time as they’re alleging then I’m not sure. Depends who’s telling the truth here. I’m assuming they wouldn’t be dumb enough to make outright threats of violence probably more subtle like “Bart is pissed you aren’t calling him, and he’s not used to that because he’s in a outlaw motorcycle club!” Either way they can argue that he had the option of calling the police if he felt threatened... by the police posing as local gang members. It doesn’t sound like he was just a random guy they pressured into doing something illegal, sounds more like he had a black market business established providing weapons to gang bangers. Don’t have enough details here.
 
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let's see, you're in Federal court, being prosecuted by a branch of the Federal govt, for breaking fed laws, selling guns to a fed agency.....and you think you're getting a fair trial?

Oh, heavens no. I was just curious if this is an actual example of contraptment because nobody seems to know what actually qualifies for entrapment.

 

enbloc

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I don't know what I would do if I was ever "pressured into selling ghost guns"...

Wait. Yes I do. I'd sell ghost guns...
 

HuntMaine

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People say that a lot but it is not true.

There is no federal law requiring a person to engage a serial number on a firearm that they manufactured for their personal use even if they later decide to sell it.

Some states (California, I believe) may have such laws. Mass does not.
Section 11E. All firearms, rifles and shotguns of new manufacture, manufactured or delivered to any licensed dealer within the commonwealth shall bear serial numbers permanently inscribed on a visible metal area of said firearm.
 

namedpipes

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Section 11E. All firearms, rifles and shotguns of new manufacture, manufactured or delivered to any licensed dealer within the commonwealth shall bear serial numbers permanently inscribed on a visible metal area of said firearm.

And how could that possibly apply to a firearm that you, Woodsy, build for your personal use, use and then at some future time decide you don't like it and sell it face-to-face?

I'm NOT saying that's what happened in this case, but the law you cited does not apply to privately manufactured firearms.
 

HuntMaine

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And how could that possibly apply to a firearm that you, Woodsy, build for your personal use, use and then at some future time decide you don't like it and sell it face-to-face?

I'm NOT saying that's what happened in this case, but the law you cited does not apply to privately manufactured firearms.

Sure it does if you do a transfer at an FFL. However if you feel it doesn’t then that’s your choice to manufacture them and sell them off I guess.
 

namedpipes

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Sure it does if you do a transfer at an FFL. However if you feel it doesn’t then that’s your choice to manufacture them and sell them off I guess.

First, there's no requirement to transfer a firearm through an FFL.

Second, a used gun is not of new manufacture. There are a metric **** ton of firearms that were manufactured prior to 1968 that have no serial number. They are legal to own. They are legal to buy and sell, EVEN through an FFL.

Third, manufacturing and selling off firearms is VERY different from building a firearm for your own use and then later selling it. One gets you free room and board for 10 years or so, the other is perfectly legal and happens every day.
 

HuntMaine

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First, there's no requirement to transfer a firearm through an FFL.

Second, a used gun is not of new manufacture. There are a metric **** ton of firearms that were manufactured prior to 1968 that have no serial number. They are legal to own. They are legal to buy and sell, EVEN through an FFL.

Third, manufacturing and selling off firearms is VERY different from building a firearm for your own use and then later selling it. One gets you free room and board for 10 years or so, the other is perfectly legal and happens every day.


First - I never said it was a requirement, maybe read the post.

Second - This was about a newly manufactured firearm not existing as I stated in the post

Third - This was about manufacturing a firearm and selling it off

Time to shovel
 

Chevy 2 65

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Let's talk about that.

Entrapment is a defense to criminal charges, and it's based on interaction between police officers and the defendant prior to (or during) the alleged crime. A typical entrapment scenario arises when law enforcement officers use coercion and other overbearing tactics to induce someone to commit a crime.
 
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In a free state, (well, free'er than Mass), who cares if the gun has a serial # or not??? Honestly!? I'm in Missouri and I make and sell a gun. Besides ATF for getting some sort of pound-of-flesh, WHO CARES????

Or is this like the Dept of Education where, "well, it's here now, we can't get rid of it." ??? (Dept of Ed was created by Carter. Think on that.)

That's a mighty fine way to end up in trouble like the gentleman in the article.

Third, manufacturing and selling off firearms is VERY different from building a firearm for your own use and then later selling it. One gets you free room and board for 10 years or so, the other is perfectly legal and happens every day.

That's a very fine line that is open to anyone's interpetiton of what your original intent was. If you're going to sell it, take the time and put a serial number on it.
 

namedpipes

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First - I never said it was a requirement, maybe read the post.

Second - This was about a newly manufactured firearm not existing as I stated in the post

Third - This was about manufacturing a firearm and selling it off

Time to shovel

Seems you have some re-reading to do as well. Nobody is sticking up for the guy that got entrapped. You made some incorrect statements that I corrected. For some reason you got upset. That's ok. It doesn't really matter.
 

HuntMaine

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Seems you have some re-reading to do as well. Nobody is sticking up for the guy that got entrapped. You made some incorrect statements that I corrected. For some reason you got upset. That's ok. It doesn't really matter.

Not upset at all. Was restated what my original point was. The guy messed up
 

Chevy 2 65

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That's a mighty fine way to end up in trouble like the gentleman in the article.

Third, manufacturing and selling off firearms is VERY different from building a firearm for your own use and then later selling it. One gets you free room and board for 10 years or so, the other is perfectly legal and happens every day.

That's a very fine line that is open to anyone's interpetiton of what your original intent was. If you're going to sell it, take the time and put a serial number on it.
Like this.

ctyp_bogusgunbuyback.jpg
 
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The weapons were known as “ghost guns,” meaning they had no serial number. Prosecutors say they were “fully automatic short-barreled rifles — weapons that are expressly designed for the criminal element.”

Was he arrested for selling ghost guns or selling fully automatic guns. I thought ghost guns were not illegal. I know automatic guns are.
 
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