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LEO/Govt. Only mags
- Thread starter JmasterJ
- Start date
Take a look at MGL Ch. 140, section 131M. It's not just those Law Enforcement-Only marked large capacity mags that are prohibited in MA, but also any post-federal-ban, new production large capacity mags.
This law applies to residents, non-residents and those just visiting MA for activities such as shooting competitions, gun shows and the like.
Here's the text:
PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT
TITLE XX. PUBLIC SAFETY AND GOOD ORDER
CHAPTER 140. LICENSES
SALE OF FIREARMS
Chapter 140: Section 131M. Assault weapon or large capacity feeding device not lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994; sale, transfer or possession; punishment
Section 131M. No person shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or possess an assault weapon or a large capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994. Whoever not being licensed under the provisions of section 122 violates the provisions of this section shall be punished, for a first offense, by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and for a second offense, by a fine of not less than $5,000 nor more than $15,000 or by imprisonment for not less than five years nor more than 15 years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
The provisions of this section shall not apply to: (i) the possession by a law enforcement officer for purposes of law enforcement; or (ii) the possession by an individual who is retired from service with a law enforcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited from receiving such a weapon or feeding device from such agency upon retirement.
This law applies to residents, non-residents and those just visiting MA for activities such as shooting competitions, gun shows and the like.
Here's the text:
PART I. ADMINISTRATION OF THE GOVERNMENT
TITLE XX. PUBLIC SAFETY AND GOOD ORDER
CHAPTER 140. LICENSES
SALE OF FIREARMS
Chapter 140: Section 131M. Assault weapon or large capacity feeding device not lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994; sale, transfer or possession; punishment
Section 131M. No person shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or possess an assault weapon or a large capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994. Whoever not being licensed under the provisions of section 122 violates the provisions of this section shall be punished, for a first offense, by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and for a second offense, by a fine of not less than $5,000 nor more than $15,000 or by imprisonment for not less than five years nor more than 15 years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
The provisions of this section shall not apply to: (i) the possession by a law enforcement officer for purposes of law enforcement; or (ii) the possession by an individual who is retired from service with a law enforcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited from receiving such a weapon or feeding device from such agency upon retirement.
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Well that states it I guess. So even if I have a gun (made in 1995)transferred into the state that is Preban of 1998(MassBan) and on the "list" but it has hicap(12rds), non-marked mags, I can have the gun but not the mags that come with the gun?
Yes, unless your large capacity mags are pre-ban, that is, manufactured prior to Sept. 14, 1994, you cannot lawfully possess them here if you are just a civilian. Sorry.
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How can anyone tell if a magazine was manufactured prior to 9/14/94? I'm curious because I just purchased a Sig (private sale) that came with some 12-round mags that were represented to me as (and I have no reason to doubt in fact are) pre-ban.
What model is it?
If it's a P226 chambered in .357 or .40, the mags are probably post-94
because that model didn't come out until after the ban.
If it's a P229, it could be a toss up. IMO most of the parkerized Sauer
marked mags (eg, they have the SigSauer circular logo on them) are
preban... And even moreso if they only say ".40" on them, because
later P229 mags say ".40 .357" on them. (This doesn't mean the mags
with both are definitely post, but the ones with only .40 listed are almost
certainly preban). Some mags only say "SigSauer" on the side of
them, those are most likely preban, as well. (I have some really old
P226/9mm mags that have no caliber marking at all).
What makes things more confusing is that MecGar made quite a few
aftermarket (eg non sig branded) mags before the ban, and they still make
the same product now. The designs of some of these products have not
changed since they came out. (The patents on a 17 round 9mm P226
flushfit, for instance, date back to 1993 and 1994. )
Other possibly useful anecdotal evidence:
-It seems almost all the new postbans I've seen for P series guns
are a shiny blued finish. They don't seem to be making them phosphated
much anymore.
-The newer postbans also have a date stamping on the models which use a
plastic floorplate. (yes, it's visible externally). Of course, using that alone
be misleading, especially if the owner rebuilt the magazine... . especially in the
case of a P228 or P229 where a loaded mag landing base-down on the cement
could easily crack or damage the floorplate. (At least I've heard a few accounts
of that happening to some people.. )
-I've -never- seen any preban P229 mags that were sold as mecgar
aftermarkets (eg, non sig branded). This doesn't mean they don't
exist, however.
-WRT preban mecgar flush-fit mags... (eg, the 15 round P228 and
17 round P226 mags) These mags were (and still are) produced in
blued and nickel finishes. Vendors were selling them DURING the ban
albeit at a premium. The problem is now the prebans are virtually
indistinguishable from the brand new stuff. Other than "just knowing"
there seems to be no way to tell! The magazines do have patents
printed on them, but the patents date back to 1993 and 1994.
Take any of this for whatever it is or isn't worth.... I've researched
this a bit, and that's all I've been able to come up with from what I've
seen "in the wild".
-Mike
Thanks for the detailed response, Mike. Here's some more info:
All mags (there are 5) are for the P229. Four have what appears to be a normally blued finish, one has a rougher finish, black rather than the blue-black, that almost looks as though it was painted (is that parkerized? - it's not as flat as what I think of as parkerizing). All of them say "SigSauer" on the left side in the characteristic script. Immediately below that is "P229", then ".40", then ".357". The "parkerized" mag has the numbered witness holes on the back along with the circular Sauer logo, the four blued ones have them on the right side, and are also stamped "Made in Italy" on that side. On the rubber floorplate, the 4 blued mags have ".40/.357" with "N P" immediately under that, and there is a small circular imprint, with 12 numbers around the outside, and a little arrow pointing at the number 3, with "0" and "5" on either side of the arrow (could that possibly indicate March 2005 date of manufacture?!!). The parkerized mag has no markings on the floorplate.
Just to round things out, there are also 2 10-round mags that have a flat black non-blued finish (more like what I think of as parkerizing), "SigSauer" on the left, with ".40 .357" on one line under that, witness holes on the back, and "Made in Germany" on the right side. The floorplate also has the circular arrow thing, in this case with the arrow pointing to "8" with the numbers "0" and "3" on either side.
It's nice to have these 12-round mags, but not so nice that I want to keep them around if they're clearly post-ban, or if someone could make a good case for them being post-ban. If they're in a gray area I guess I'll need to think about that. TIA for any more info you could provide.
All mags (there are 5) are for the P229. Four have what appears to be a normally blued finish, one has a rougher finish, black rather than the blue-black, that almost looks as though it was painted (is that parkerized? - it's not as flat as what I think of as parkerizing). All of them say "SigSauer" on the left side in the characteristic script. Immediately below that is "P229", then ".40", then ".357". The "parkerized" mag has the numbered witness holes on the back along with the circular Sauer logo, the four blued ones have them on the right side, and are also stamped "Made in Italy" on that side. On the rubber floorplate, the 4 blued mags have ".40/.357" with "N P" immediately under that, and there is a small circular imprint, with 12 numbers around the outside, and a little arrow pointing at the number 3, with "0" and "5" on either side of the arrow (could that possibly indicate March 2005 date of manufacture?!!). The parkerized mag has no markings on the floorplate.
Just to round things out, there are also 2 10-round mags that have a flat black non-blued finish (more like what I think of as parkerizing), "SigSauer" on the left, with ".40 .357" on one line under that, witness holes on the back, and "Made in Germany" on the right side. The floorplate also has the circular arrow thing, in this case with the arrow pointing to "8" with the numbers "0" and "3" on either side.
It's nice to have these 12-round mags, but not so nice that I want to keep them around if they're clearly post-ban, or if someone could make a good case for them being post-ban. If they're in a gray area I guess I'll need to think about that. TIA for any more info you could provide.
IMO The date coded floorplates are kind of a dead giveaway... there's still
the possibility that those floorplates were replaced for some
reason, especially if the owner used the gun quite a bit and
trained with it, or did some type of competition/training where mag
drops are frequent.
The" holes on the back" usually means that sig made the mag... most of
the mecgar made mags, wether brand stamped or not, have the holes
on the sides.
The .357 markings lead me to believe they're newer... as the cartridge was
produced starting around 1994. Of course I don't remember, offhand, when
the first guns came out, and when sig started pumping out magazines (or
paying mecgar to do so on their behalf).
IMO, if one wants to be doubly safe, the best deal is to trade your mags for
prebans with someone in a free state that still has them. Course, the
only problem with that is one obviously has to trust whoever it is they're
dealing with. In my case I got lucky because some vendors were selling off
leftover/used prebans before the end of fed AWB, and in the few months after
the expiration, so I was able to get a few P229 mags that I was reasonably
certain are preban).
-Mike
the possibility that those floorplates were replaced for some
reason, especially if the owner used the gun quite a bit and
trained with it, or did some type of competition/training where mag
drops are frequent.
The" holes on the back" usually means that sig made the mag... most of
the mecgar made mags, wether brand stamped or not, have the holes
on the sides.
The .357 markings lead me to believe they're newer... as the cartridge was
produced starting around 1994. Of course I don't remember, offhand, when
the first guns came out, and when sig started pumping out magazines (or
paying mecgar to do so on their behalf).
IMO, if one wants to be doubly safe, the best deal is to trade your mags for
prebans with someone in a free state that still has them. Course, the
only problem with that is one obviously has to trust whoever it is they're
dealing with. In my case I got lucky because some vendors were selling off
leftover/used prebans before the end of fed AWB, and in the few months after
the expiration, so I was able to get a few P229 mags that I was reasonably
certain are preban).
-Mike
