Legal to bring visiting foreign nationals to range?

When I first visited here (means on a tourist visa), Manchester firing line had no problem renting me a gun and use their facilities. I had to show my passport tho.
I have no clue if shitville (MASS) works the same. They probably (most likely) have a law against it.
 
Yeah, let's all avoid giving the OP information that could be usefull. Let's instead start yet another refugee thread. That'd be number 29, right? Awesome.
 
I'm pretty sure it is fine, but I can't quote you a law (laws normally say what you can't do, not what you can do).

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I don't think that would be a problem. IANAL, but I know that one of the things a *lot* of visiting tourists do in the US is go shooting. Not sure where you're at, but if taking the shooting in MA concerns you, the MFL that Frenchman mentioned is a very nice indoor facility with some extremely fun toys to rent.
 
Contramnky said:
Subject line says it all. I have some friends visiting from France and I wish to share the feeling of liberty with them.

Is that kosher, legally speaking?
Click to expand...

Nothing in MGL blocks it that I'm aware of.

-Mike
 
yes its legal in the us but i have an indian friend who states he can be prosecuted back home for even handling one over sea's. maybe just have them avoid posting shit on face book
 
todd c said:
yes its legal in the us but i have an indian friend who states he can be prosecuted back home for even handling one over sea's. maybe just have them avoid posting shit on face book
Click to expand...
Not the case in France. French citizens are to be trialled in the country where they commit a crime, IF France has an agreement to extradite with said country. If not, they are tried in France.
 
todd c said:
yes its legal in the us but i have an indian friend who states he can be prosecuted back home for even handling one over sea's. maybe just have them avoid posting shit on face book
Click to expand...
Can they really? Regardless, I would simply suggest not telling the government. Why would anyone ever have such a worry? I went to Philippines earlier this year and did lots of stuff that is illegal in the U.S.... It didn't bother me at all!

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I've brought French, Russian and Lebanese to the range before. As long as they are in the country legally there is no problem.
 
Here's the ATF's opinion (source)
An alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa is prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving, or possessing a firearm or ammunition unless the alien falls within one of the exceptions provided in 18 U.S.C. 922(y)(2), such as: a valid hunting license or permit, admitted for lawful hunting or sporting purposes, certain official representativesof a foreign government, or a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on official law enforcement business.
Click to expand...

Here's the relevant federal law:
18 USC 922(g) said:
It shall be unlawful for any person—(5) who, being an alien—(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26))); to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
Click to expand...

subsection (y)(2) said:
(2)Exceptions.—Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is—
(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;
(B) an official representative of a foreign government who is—
(i) accredited to the United States Government or the Government’s mission to an international organization having its headquarters in the United States; or
(ii) en route to or from another country to which that alien is accredited;
(C) an official of a foreign government or a distinguished foreign visitor who has been so designated by the Department of State; or
(D) a foreign law enforcement officer of a friendly foreign government entering the United States on official law enforcement business.
Click to expand...

It's rarely prosecuted, though.

EDIT: Noticed that your friends are from France. If they entered under the VWP with just a passport, they're fine. If they were issued a B1/B2, then it's a no-go under federal law unless they have a hunting license or one of the other exceptions.
 
Last edited:
ochmude said:
Here's the ATF's opinion (source)


Here's the relevant federal law:




It's rarely prosecuted, though.
Click to expand...
I am not a lawyer but I did not think borrowing a gun while the owner stands there counts as any of that. Now if the owner says here you go, gets in car and drives away.... then immigrant has an issue.

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Prepper said:
I am not a lawyer but I did not think borrowing a gun while the owner stands there counts as any of that. Now if the owner says here you go, gets in car and drives away.... then immigrant has an issue.

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Click to expand...

That was my read as well, and I also am not a lawyer. I wouldn't think that 'supervised handling'='possession'. But that is how MA interprets machine-gun use, right?
 
Prepper said:
I am not a lawyer but I did not think borrowing a gun while the owner stands there counts as any of that. Now if the owner says here you go, gets in car and drives away.... then immigrant has an issue.

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Click to expand...
The law doesn't apply to immigrants at all. Understanding the distinction between "immigrant" and "non-immigrant" is rather critical for this particular piece of law. As far as whether borrowing a gun in the presence of the owner counts, I understand your thinking, but I've spoken to federal prosecutors about this. Their understanding is that it is prohibited, but a prosecution wouldn't be worth their time under most circumstances.

Also, note my edit. Visitors from Visa Waiver Program countries by definition don't have non-immigrant visas, so they fall into a nice loophole in the law.
 
Prepper said:
Can they really? Regardless, I would simply suggest not telling the government. Why would anyone ever have such a worry? I went to Philippines earlier this year and did lots of stuff that is illegal in the U.S.... It didn't bother me at all!

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Click to expand...

Lady boys ?
 
ochmude said:
The law doesn't apply to immigrants at all. Understanding the distinction between "immigrant" and "non-immigrant" is rather critical for this particular piece of law. As far as whether borrowing a gun in the presence of the owner counts, I understand your thinking, but I've spoken to federal prosecutors about this. Their understanding is that it is prohibited, but a prosecution wouldn't be worth their time under most circumstances.

Also, note my edit. Visitors from Visa Waiver Program countries by definition don't have non-immigrant visas, so they fall into a nice loophole in the law.
Click to expand...
Right I mistyped about immigrant... I knew that. A visitor is going to be a non immigrant though.

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ochmude said:
As far as whether borrowing a gun in the presence of the owner counts, I understand your thinking, but I've spoken to federal prosecutors about this. Their understanding is that it is prohibited, but a prosecution wouldn't be worth their time under most circumstances.
Click to expand...

Federal prosecutors were very interested in David Olofson, who was convicted of a bullshit firearms charge.
 
mclina said:
That was my read as well, and I also am not a lawyer. I wouldn't think that 'supervised handling'='possession'. But that is how MA interprets machine-gun use, right?
Click to expand...
It's worth considering that this is the exact same section of the U.S. Code that prohibits felons from possession firearms. Look at the rest of the section.

(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) who is a fugitive from justice;
(3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
(4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;
(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));
Click to expand...

1, 2, 3, and 4 are the people we refer to as "federally prohibited persons". #5 is part of that exact same list. For 1 thru 4, people get nervous about storing firearms in the same house as such a person. The definitions don't change between (4) and (5)(B).
 

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