Bill Nance
Banned
He wasn't 15, he was EIGHT.
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Judge refuses to drop charge against former Pelham Police Chief Edward Fleury,
- Thread starter kiver
- Start date
He wasn't 15, he was EIGHT.
I agree as an accomplice only,the range officer should be charged to the fullest extent of the law.
The victim was 8 (IIRC), the RO was 15...
Depends on the facts... If the RO tried to stop them, then he is not responsible...
Unless of course you think the 15YO RO should have double tapped the father to stop him from doing as he pleased against protest?
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
So, I will defer to those who were there to decide whether you think the RO (regardless of age) has any responsibility... It isn't invariably true that the RO is actually responsible...
You can't stop people 100% of the time from realizing the full scope of their stupidity...
Bill Nance
Banned
The Range officer was FIFTEEN?
Ok, I'm sorry I totally changed my mind on this based on the above.
Whoever the Hell put a 15 y/o kid as a range officer on a NFA range should be hung. That's just so incredibly stupid I can hardly believe it. Screw the guys who made that call and put themselkves in a position to be responible for safety at the event.
That one act makes them 100% liable for any accidents in my book. And FWIW I agree that the father should not be let off the hook. Letting your 8 year-old shoot a mini-uzi, supervision or no, is criminally stupid.
Ok, I'm sorry I totally changed my mind on this based on the above.
Whoever the Hell put a 15 y/o kid as a range officer on a NFA range should be hung. That's just so incredibly stupid I can hardly believe it. Screw the guys who made that call and put themselkves in a position to be responible for safety at the event.
That one act makes them 100% liable for any accidents in my book. And FWIW I agree that the father should not be let off the hook. Letting your 8 year-old shoot a mini-uzi, supervision or no, is criminally stupid.
Make that Micro-Uzi:
http://www.masslive.com/news/index....cted_i.html?category=Crime+category=Westfield
Even worse...
The problem with ROs in the first place, and particularly at an "event", is that people trust that someone else is making things safe, and that if nobody yells at them then they must be doing something that is safe and acceptable. From what I know of this, the father must have trusted that someone else was in charge of safety. That was his mistake, as he surely knows.
I don't want to create yet more variations on what "really happened" since I wasn't there, but I will say that your version does not mesh with more than one account I have heard from those who were there...
Make that Micro-Uzi:
http://www.masslive.com/news/index....cted_i.html?category=Crime+category=Westfield
Even worse...
According to that article, the father chose the micro-UZI because it was small and he thought that would be easier for a child to handle.
If that's the case, the father knows nothing about guns, and I'm not sure if that makes him more or less culpable in my eyes... What were the knowledgeable shooters watching this thinking? Did the 15 yr old RO really try to stop the father and was ignored?? Without looking to blame someone LEGALLY, why did no one speak up to inform the father that this was not an appropriate weapon for a small child to fire???
According to that article, the father chose the micro-UZI because it was small and he thought that would be easier for a child to handle.
From what I was told:
- 15 yo RO was the son of someone in charge that owned the guns. I'm guessing that he was an experienced smg shooter. BUT he should never have been in charge of the guns for many reasons.
- Boy was 8 yo and had shot conventional handguns/rifles before . . . as had the father.
- I am told that RO told father that the micro-Uzi was INappropriate, but the father was arrogant and insistent that the kid could handle it since he was a small kid and it was a small gun (fatal assumption)!!!
When you or I were 15 yo, I doubt that we would have "faced-down" an arrogant father either. That's one of the reasons that ONLY adults should RO public events!! If the father got in the face of a 30 yo RO, I'm sure that the father would have "lost" that argument!!!
To me, the person who put the 15 yo in charge and the father should both be held criminally liable for what happened.
I agree 100%. I am the parent of my kids. I am responsable for their safety.
Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I think any adult should be able to purchase a full-auto or select-fire weapon without any license, tax or paperwork of any kind. If he want's to let his 6yo kid use it, that's his right and his responsible. However, given the existing laws in Massachusetts and what used to be the USA, the chief, the club and the owners of the firearms used are all certifiable fools. IIRC, there was a discussion here about 6 months before the event about BATF sniffing around and asking the AG whether it was legal under MA law for non-licensed persons to handle FA/select weapons. The AG's office apparently couldn't be bothered carefully reading the laws their paid to enforce, but the legal experts at NEShooters (both licensed to practice law and not) fairly quickly uncovered an anomaly in MA law. While there's a section of the law that allows an unlicensed person to handle a rifle or shotgun under the supervision of a licensed person, and a similar exemption for handguns, there doesn't seem to be one for machine guns. Given the known fact that BATF has been asking around, any responsible party involved would have carefully checked their legal position before proceeding with the shoot, even though they had done it many times previously. Even if they couldn't be bothered doing that and just assumed that there was an exemption for machine guns, only a fool would assume that that exemption would apply to supervision by unlicensed minors. While the father is indeed a fool and bears a major responsibility for death of his own son, his stupidity wouldn't have been able to do so without the direct and almost certainly illegal assistance of the club, the promoters and the licensed owners of the firearms involved. Sorry if that view bothers people, but I don't suffer fools well, particularly when they cause the death of innocents and most likely more restrictions on my rights.
We call the 15 year old the "Range Officer" because we don't really have a name for his specific function.
Usually the RO is in charge of the whole range. He calles the orders for a hot range, and calls schedualed cease fires. He kicks people out who don't follow the rules.
The 15 yo, as I understand it, was the "lane safety helper". It would have been good if he had more experience, maturity, knowledge, and command than he actually did.
Usually the RO is in charge of the whole range. He calles the orders for a hot range, and calls schedualed cease fires. He kicks people out who don't follow the rules.
The 15 yo, as I understand it, was the "lane safety helper". It would have been good if he had more experience, maturity, knowledge, and command than he actually did.
