OLAK
NES Member
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Judge: Jurors can see video of boy's Uzi death
- Thread starter OLAK
- Start date
F
Finalygotabeltfed
The "culture of irresponsibility" has come home to roost.
That's what I was getting at in my post. Exactly. Well said Pilgrim.
So the genius who put a 15-year-old on the line as an "instructor" gets off with no punishment?
read the other posts on this. The 15 yo wouldn't give the kid the gun until the father bullied him to do it.
I really wish I knew more facts so I could reach any conclusion. As it stands, it's just sad all around.
radioman
NES Member
So the father, who is a doctor, doesn't get charged because he's to stupid to know his young kid can't handle a machine pistol?? Wow! The stories I read when this first happened stated the father insisted the kid take the pistol? I guess the staff should have bodily thrown him out. Then he'd be sewing for discrimination. I guess the kid would still be with us but if this logic is used any accident that happened anywhere would result in a negligence lawsuit because someone somewhere should have known better?
blindndead
NES Member
"his decision to allow his sons to fire the gun".
period
period
Which wouldn't have happened if he'd put an adult at that position rather than a kid who could be bullied!
The 15-year-old kid was not qualified to be in the position that they put him in.
Fleury, et al, have some responsibility here.
I've known some 15 year olds that are more mature and qualified than some adults. I have also seen adults intimidated by other adults and in some cases teenagers. The father wanted his son to shoot it so he should certainly be held responsible as much if not more than anyone else.
blindndead
NES Member
15 year old bull bullied by dad. Responsibility is now on dad's head.
If that whole story is true.
If that whole story is true.
GunGrey
Banned
Well the blame should land on the father, it was ultimately his decision to bring his sons to the show.
Maybe we should hold the car manufacturer responsible also. they couldnt get there unless they drove, how about the goverment they built the roads and maintain them.
Maybe we should hold the car manufacturer responsible also. they couldnt get there unless they drove, how about the goverment they built the roads and maintain them.
DickWanner
Banned
We get it, you're an instructor. We get it, you feel all instructors should live up to some magical and unset standard. You're obviously letting this bias you against who is ultimately responsible here.
You just don't get it. If you are going to organize such an event, you have to do so with reasonable care. Putting someone who is not qualified to instruct shooters in that position is not reasonable care. Putting a 15-year-old kid in that position is not reasonable care.
Huh? The kid wasn't an instructor. Becoming a certified instructor or certified range safety officer is not a magical standard, nor is it an unset one. You, too, can become one quite easily: http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/instructor.asp
Instructors at such events need to use reasonable care. Giving that 8-year-old kid a Micro Uzi was not reasonable, it was reckless. I don't blame the 15-year-old kid for giving in to the bully -- he was a kid.
You are obviously unable to realize that more than one person is at fault here. Fleury, et al, made a serious mistake, one that contributed to the boy's death. Yes, the father's behavior contributed as well, but that doesn't absolve Fleury from exercising reasonable caution when running such an event.
You claim to be big on personal responsibility but you refuse to hold Fleury responsible for his reckless actions. Even fellow gun owners can screw up. Fleury screwed up. Face it.
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The 15 YO kid is the son of one of the CT guys who brought the hardware. Fleury wasn't on the line and may not have known the kid was acting as an RO - the Spfld. paper said he was selling tickets and collecting waivers at the gate. So Dr. B. and everyone else signed a waiver.
The three "furnishing a machine gun to a minor" charges on top of the involuntary manslaughter charge are BS. That event had been going on for six or seven years, and it was heavily advertised on the radio and newspaper, including a prominent line about "no age limit - bring your kids." If it was illegal there should have been charges brought the first year. Local and MA state police were on scene every year. Somebody's lawyer must have taken a look at it before they started. Hundreds of kids had fired MG's in the years before this tragedy.
The three "furnishing a machine gun to a minor" charges on top of the involuntary manslaughter charge are BS. That event had been going on for six or seven years, and it was heavily advertised on the radio and newspaper, including a prominent line about "no age limit - bring your kids." If it was illegal there should have been charges brought the first year. Local and MA state police were on scene every year. Somebody's lawyer must have taken a look at it before they started. Hundreds of kids had fired MG's in the years before this tragedy.
A child was killed! This story is terrible and should have never happened, PERIOD!
I can't say I've read everything there is to know about this, but this does seem like a very sad case where people are looking for someone to blame. No doubt the father is devastated. The organizers must be as well. Nobody involved can feel anything other than sadness and regret over the boy's death. It's terrible. But that doesn't mean that justice is served by finger pointing, jail time, or cash settlements. Not every tragedy has a villain.
As the organizer of this event that doesn't absolve him of his responsibility to ensure adequate supervision of the line.
Which may be useful during the civil trial that will follow, but this is a criminal trial.
No argument there.
And that advertising also said that everyone would be accompanied to the firing line by a "certified instructor."
