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C-pher

C-pher

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Has anyone played with this?

I downloaded the file for Google Earth that lists all the nodes and if they are open or in use. This morning I was talking to someone in CA, AL, TX and a few other places that I didn't know the cities they were calling out on..

It's pretty cool. I haven't linked up outside of the US yet, but I'm thinking that I might give it a try.

This is really cool.
 
Yea, you and I were talking on echo link. But this one you are actually talking on a local repeater. You find one that has IRLP, you call to make sure the repeater is clear, call for control and then type in a node number. It tells you that you're connected to the remote repeater and you're talking to someone in Italy....or what have you.

I connected to this system and they did a demo for me. http://www.winsystem.org/ It was pretty freaking cool!
 
I've been mentioning echolink for a while. You can use it as an end user (like a radio) or use it to connnect to or link repeaters.

I installed one on the local repeater here, works great.

I even had a person connect to the repeater while driving in traffic from Atlanta and he was using his iphone. Yes, there's an app for that! No radio needed, just an iphone and echolink.

Many IRLP linked repeaters are also linked to echolink.
 
C-pher said:
This is all on 2m and 70cm. So you can talk around the world on a Tech License. I'm supprised that no one has talked about this before...
Click to expand...

I haven't mentioned it because it uses the internet. To me, it's just another instant messenger. Might as well join a chat room. Getting your signal to Texas or California, though. Now that's radio.
 
I use echo link and IRLP fairly enough. Martlet yes it is over the internet but it is also re transmitted through the airwaves. It is becoming more and more popular and it is helping link several repeaters around the world. Though i do not go looking to speak to DX foreign stations anymore, i use it mostly for linking into repeaters with in the United States.
 
Martlet said:
I haven't mentioned it because it uses the internet. To me, it's just another instant messenger. Might as well join a chat room. Getting your signal to Texas or California, though. Now that's radio.
Click to expand...

But you are talking...on signal to Texas or Califorina. You talk into a Repeater, it comes out of another repeater, and you talk to someone somewhere else. For people that don't have their General...or can't afford an HF Radio, or have the space for an antenna...this is a way for them to talk around the world.
 
C-pher said:
this is a way for them to talk around the world.
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So aren't chat rooms. I guess if your personal goal for ham radio is to talk around the world, it's a great medium.

My challenge is to take my shack and bounce my signal around the world.

Everyone hopes to get something different out of the hobby.
 
Yea, but it's also do what you can with what you can afford. This lets you talk to people if you can't afford HF. Just throwing another way out there...

And I like it because it's another way to use Ham radio. Same reason that I'm looking for a TNC to try Packet... I'm having fun trying other mediums. And this is one that's pretty cool. It's cool to log into one network and talk to people all over the US at one time. Yes, it's like a chat room, but it's a chat room on Ham Radio. And you know me...chatty C-pher.
 
matt said:
Do irlp and wires compete, or can they co-mingle?
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Yes, echolink (and IRLP) can and do co-mingle.

If you talk to another ham direclty echolink-to-echolink or irlp-to-echolink (via a conference, etc), and your audio (signal?) never reaches a radio transmitter along the way, then this is basically just a ham's version of any typical internet chat applicaiton (and we already have many of them that work as well or better) and there is no reason to use your call sign.

On the other hand if you connect to an IRLP (or Echolink) node that is connected to a transmitter, then you are going over the air, and all appropriate ham radio laws apply to remain legal.

So this is sort of a hybrid mode of internet chat and ham radio.

I know of HF stations that are remote controlled over the internet via Echolink or IRLP, technically this isn't much different than a ham using UHF to link to his HF station for remote control (well perhaps it is more flexible/secure than a RF control link). Does that make it any less 'ham radio' because of the use of the internet for the remote control link?

One of the coolest applications is the iphone Echolink Application. A guys riding down the street in his car (or on a train or a bus) can connect to his local repeater (or any linked repeater in the world) and talk with hams on the air. Is this any less 'ham radio' than a person using an HT doing the same thing? If so, what about the people using the new 'D-Star', which is almost the same thing, except using a direct RF link for the digital signal?
 
R1ch said:
I know of HF stations that are remote controlled over the internet via Echolink or IRLP, technically this isn't much different than a ham using UHF to link to his HF station for remote control (well perhaps it is more flexible/secure than a RF control link). Does that make it any less 'ham radio' because of the use of the internet for the remote control link?
Click to expand...

This is nothing like operating a remote. With remote, you have your base, which remains your base, and everything originates from there. You're just connecting to YOUR base remotely. With echolink, you don't even need a radio. You're connecting to someone else's repeater via the internet. Your signal isn't originating from your base. It's originating from where you're connected to.

One of the coolest applications is the iphone Echolink Application. A guys riding down the street in his car (or on a train or a bus) can connect to his local repeater (or any linked repeater in the world) and talk with hams on the air. Is this any less 'ham radio' than a person using an HT doing the same thing? If so, what about the people using the new 'D-Star', which is almost the same thing, except using a direct RF link for the digital signal?
Click to expand...

How can you call it "ham radio" if you aren't even using a radio? You're talking on your iphone, much like skype only the user you're talking to is using a radio instead of a phone. D-Star is pretty neat technology. You can use D-Link operator to operator. You can also connect it to the internet. Same technology, two different mediums.

None of these styles would do you any good in a SHTF situation. Why? They aren't radio.
 
Martlet said:
None of these styles would do you any good in a SHTF situation. Why? They aren't radio.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but does that make it any less cool? I agree that Echolink isn't really that much of a Ham thing...like you said you're talking on your laptop or your iPhone.

But, IRLP, you're on your radio, link to a repeater in Zimbabwe, it goes to another repeater and over to air to their radio. It's radio to Radio...just using the internet to get where I couldn't before without HF. SHTF and internet is down....then go back to HF...because if there's no power to the repeaters...then all you have is 2m Simplex. That's why I would like to get into 6m. It's further, but not so far that I can't talk to someone that's too close for HF.

Still, it's cool and fun. And I like it.
 
I tend to agree with Martlet on this one. Echolink isn't radio anymore than wi-fi is radio. IRLP is a little bit more "radio-ish", but it's still sorta cheating in my opinion. Sure, you can talk around the world, but the skill factor is eliminated. It's like shooting .22 bullseye from a ransom rest. The challenge isn't there. I read a lot about how people are concerned that ham radio is dying because it lacks the technological mystic it once held among young people. Speaking as a "young person" in the hobby (I'm 26), Echolink and IRLP don't do ham radio any service in that regard. You give a kid an HT, punch up an IRLP connection, and talk around the world, and that kid is gonna wonder why it took so long to make the connection while he's pulling out his iphone to watch some TV. Setup an HF station with a homemade dipole and talk around the world with no assistance at all, and the kid will witness first hand the "magic" of radio. That's the draw of radio for me. It's about having the knowledge, the skill, and the confidence to setup a station on your own, without reliance on any established infrastructure (other than electricity, unless you're running QRP off a battery), and talk around the planet.
 
I think you guys are missing a minor (or major) point.

Yes with Echolink (or irlp) you don't need a radio if you don't want one. And in such a mode it's not any more ham radio than instant messaging is.

BUT YOU CAN ALSO use Echolink to connect to your own station (or another station) to access/operate it remotely. In this case it is ham radio, you're just operating it remotely.

If you haven't tried it, perhaps your missing the point?

Connect to Echolink and then connect to node number 5001047. Bettter be using your license and ID every 10 minutes, etc. as you're operating over the air on a 2 meter repeater the same way as if you had an HT in your hand.
 
Martlet said:
How can you call it "ham radio" if you aren't even using a radio?
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You guys are starting to sound like the old timers... "How can you call that a radio, you didn't even cut and polish your own crystals to get them on frequency, wind your own coils...."
[rofl]

Are you next going to say that EME is not ham radio because it doesn't use the ionosphere to propogate signals? Is 2M FM operation not ham radio because it uses a repeater to allow two people to communicate? Is operating satellite operation not ham radio because it uses a repeater that is orbiting the earth?

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you on many points, in many ways Echolink and IRLP is just internet IM traffic, not really ham radio. But the interface of these two (and other technologies) makes ham radio very flexible.

If you don't enjoy it, no problem, please leave your microphone's disconnected as many people feel that if you're not operating CW on the HF bands, then you're not really operatiing in the spirit of true ham radio. [smile]
 
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Martlet said:
It's still a radio. A computer is not.
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I'm using it to connect to a repeater that I own, it's easier than using a HT, so in my case, it's more of a remote base than anything else.

And I also happen to allow linking of other repeaters as well as other end users connecting. So it's a linking system that happens to use the net as that, a network. Feel free not to connect if you like. [smile]
 
R1ch said:
I'm using it to connect to a repeater that I own, it's easier than using a HT, so in my case, it's more of a remote base than anything else.

And I also happen to allow linking of other repeaters as well as other end users connecting. So it's a linking system that happens to use the net as that, a network. Feel free not to connect if you like. [smile]
Click to expand...

A remote is a different animal. I never said echolink and the like isn't fun. I never said they don't have uses. I simply said it's not radio. I can connect on my iphone. I can connect through my computer. I can use chat rooms. None of those are radio either. No need to get defensive. Do what ever you enjoy. It doesn't affect me in the slightest.
 
I'm not getting defensive. [smile] Feel free to use what technologies you choose.

My point was simply that using Echolink or IRLP as interconnecting technologies for ham radio doesn't make it any less ham radio than using a software defined radio instead of integrated circuits, transistors, tubes, resonant circuits, crystal detectors, or other basic components doesn't keep it from being ham radio. There's radio emissions at some point via some means.

We're in agreement that pure Echolink to Echolink (only) communications is not ham radio, but only yet another type of IM traffic on the net.

Each has it's place and purpose.
 
R1ch said:
I'm not getting defensive. [smile] Feel free to use what technologies you choose.

My point was simply that using Echolink or IRLP as interconnecting technologies for ham radio doesn't make it any less ham radio than using a software defined radio instead of integrated circuits, transistors, tubes, resonant circuits, crystal detectors, or other basic components doesn't keep it from being ham radio. There's radio emissions at some point via some means.

We're in agreement that pure Echolink to Echolink (only) communications is not ham radio, but only yet another type of IM traffic on the net.

Each has it's place and purpose.
Click to expand...

Like I said, whatever floats your boat. If you think using a computer to connect to another person's repeater is ham radio, then that's what you think. It's blatantly not the case, though.

I'm all for people enjoying the hobby however they see fit. That doesn't mean I understand all of it, though. If you want to get on your computer and talk to someone around the world, why go through the trouble of getting a license? Just log onto a chat room.

That's not ham radio in the same way live-shot wasn't hunting.
 
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I think we're in agreement here, computer to computer is just that, internet chatting...

But to me, using the internet to link repeaters together via Echolink/IRLP, is no different than linking them via an unknown (to the average user) link via UHF. Two users are still communicating via radios, they don't know how the repeaters are linked. In fact, D-Star is this way too.

If some users want to connect directly via Echolink, so be it. I don't mind. Feel free to use the technology as you like.
 
Martlet said:
Like I said, whatever floats your boat. If you think using a computer to connect to another person's repeater is ham radio, then that's what you think. It's blatantly not the case, though.

I'm all for people enjoying the hobby however they see fit. That doesn't mean I understand all of it, though. If you want to get on your computer and talk to someone around the world, why go through the trouble of getting a license? Just log onto a chat room.

That's not ham radio in the same way live-shot wasn't hunting.
Click to expand...


I love how you get all worked up saying that you don't care, it doesn't effect you, do what you want...but then you just keep arguing that it's not radio.

You're the best! Let's meet up on an IRLP Repeater and we'll discuss how we're not talking on our radios over our radios. Sounds good?
 
It's not wireless, though. This is just my opinion, but radio communication, from a hobby point of view, should be wireless from antenna to antenna. What's the point of learning so much about radio wave propagation if you can just send everything through cat 5 cable?
 
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C-pher said:
I love how you get all worked up saying that you don't care, it doesn't effect you, do what you want...but then you just keep arguing that it's not radio.

You're the best! Let's meet up on an IRLP Repeater and we'll discuss how we're not talking on our radios over our radios. Sounds good?
Click to expand...

I'm not worked up and I don't care if you use echolink or IRLP. How you participate in your hobby doesn't affect me in the slightest. It isn't radio, though. Not caring what you do doesn't equal believing that it's radio. I don't care if you own an air rifle for home defense, either. That doesn't mean I would think you know anything about home defense, though.

If you think merely talking on your radio equals ham radio, then simply plug your mic into your computer and use echolink all the time. You'll qualify for WAS in a weekend.
 
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ochmude said:
It's not wireless, though. This is just my opinion, but radio communication, from a hobby point of view, should be wireless from antenna to antenna. What's the point of learning so much about radio wave propagation if you can just send everything through cat 5 cable?
Click to expand...

So, talking over a repeater is out? I can understand this concept with HF. But with 2m and 70cm, the only real way to talk over distance is through repeaters. Why is talking from a local repeater to another person OK. But talking into a repeater, then out one across the world any different? No Different than a networked set of repeaters...it's just that this networked set of repeaters are all over the US, or world....instead of just networked across MA or RI.

Martlet said:
If you think merely talking on your radio equals ham radio, then simply plug your mic into your computer and use echolink all the time. You'll qualify for WAS in a weekend.
Click to expand...

I guess you aren't listening...and that's fine. I'm not talking on my Computer...so I'm not sure how you find that so difficult. I'm talking on my radio, into a repeater...then that's going over the internet...to another Repeater...to someone's radio. I'm going from radio to radio. But I can see ochmude's point. It's not radio to radio. But then that's the same for any traffic over a repeater...local or not.
 
C-Pher,

You get it! [smile]

The method used to link the repeaters is the black magic, no matter if the repeaters are linked via UHF radio, orbiting satellites, or ethernet, the end effect is the same, there's a radio 'worm hole' occurance that is allowing them to communicate with one another.

How is using the ionosphere much different? Signal propogation via refraction, vs an electronic 'refraction' via an RF repeater, or a digital repeater, or Echolink/IRLP?


People at each end are using their radios to communicate with each other. They have no knowledge of how the 'worm hole' was implemented, they just know that it works. Others have provide and maintain the radio worm hole for them to use.
 
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