inadvertently bought an AR upper with a bayonet lug?

[squiddoc39]

folks, if say a CT resident inadvertently bought an AR upper with bayonet lug, I know it can't be mated to a lower but what if such resident removes said bayonet lug then mates it to the lower - is that legal? now, what if a AR gunsmith removes said bayonet lug then the CT resident can mate it with the lower without legal issues?

how much leeway does the law allow us to modify AR uppers to become CT legal? My understanding is that a AWB state resident can pin collapsible stocks in Ban states and it is perfectly ok as long as it did not come with the rifle in the first place and is a replacement. does this extend to having the bayonet lug removed and having a muzzle break perm attached before mating it your lower receiver.

thanks. squid

 

[Kevlar]

folks, if say a CT resident inadvertently bought an AR upper with bayonet lug, I know it can't be mated to a lower...

It can if the lower is "pre-ban" (excluding the Colt AR-15 or Sporter, which are specifically banned). However, be advised that possession of a upper with "evil" features, and a "post-ban" lower could be construed as "constructive possession".

...but what if such resident removes said bayonet lug then mates it to the lower - is that legal?

Yes.

Now, what if a AR gunsmith removes said bayonet lug then the CT resident can mate it with the lower without legal issues?

Yes.

My understanding is that a AWB state resident can pin collapsible stocks in Ban states and it is perfectly ok...

Correct.

...as long as it did not come with the rifle in the first place and is a replacement.

Incorrect. Original or replacement is irrelevant.

 

[squiddoc39]

kevlar, thanks a million for answering my questions. it is much appreciated. yut. squid

 

[dcmdon]

Just cut off the lug and you are good.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Just cut off the lug and you are good.

I am not an expect on CT law, but I believe the AW ban in that state is a ban on specifically named brand/model combinations - for example, a Colr AR15 is bad; a Remsport, JP, etc. is good. Check with someone who is certain before you rely on this detail though.

 

[dcmdon]

The law has 2 components.
1) Named guns, the original law
2) Evil Features, adapted from the federal AWB.

If he bought an upper, the only issue is evil features. The named guns are irrelevant because an upper is not a firearm.

Cut off the lug and you are fine.

Don

p.s. for reference: http://www.jud.ct.gov/JI/criminal/glossary/assaultweapon.htm

p.p.s. If the OP had said "I bought an AR with a lug" you would be correct, he would have to check it against the named list and then also make sure it was in compliance with the evil features part of the law. Unless it is pre-ban in which case the evil features part of the ban does not apply. Particularly interesting is since the Colt AR15 is named, the gun is illegal in the state in which it is made. Simple huh? I'm not an attorney, but I've been parsing out this law for about 10 years and have made several calls to Deputy AG Steve Sarnoski for lawyerly interpretations.

 

[tmitney]

Watch out for threaded barrel and flash hider as well.

 

[mardoy]

If I am planning on purchasing a preban lower (RRA) from out of state and mating it with a upper full of all the evil features would that be legal? Do I need to register it? What is this "constructive possession"? Is there any case law supporting (or banning) something like this? Just trying to build an "evil" AR that is still legal. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Kevlar]

Welcome to NES!

If I am planning on purchasing a preban lower (RRA) from out of state and mating it with a upper full of all the evil features would that be legal?

Yes. If your AR lower is "pre-ban" (and not a Colt AR-15 or Sporter), you can have any and all "evil" features you wish.

What is this "constructive possession"?

See items (2) and (4) here: C.G.S. c.943 s.53-202a

 

[rep308]

have someone tack weld a dot on the lug so no bayonet can be mounted on it. That way if you move to a free state you can have the weld ground down.

 

[dcmdon]

have someone tack weld a dot on the lug so no bayonet can be mounted on it. That way if you move to a free state you can have the weld ground down.

As described above, Kevlar can leave it as is.

In the case described by the OP, I still would not do this.
One could make the argument that a modified bayonet would fit with the drop of weld.

Besides, the bayonet lug is the one evil feature that is essentially useless, so grind it off, who cares.

Don

p.s. I don't care for telescoping stocks but at least I see why others like them. The lug is just .. . pointless. And it doesn't even work on some of the shorter guns.

 

[Tweed]

If I am planning on purchasing a preban lower (RRA) from out of state and mating it with a upper full of all the evil features would that be legal?

I believe that RRA was started after 1994 and none of their lowers would be pre-ban.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...mation-for-those-who-still-live-under-the-AWB

 

[CTbuilder1]

No preban RRAs. Rethink that purchase, because someone is taking you for a ride.

 

[dcmdon]

No preban RRAs. Rethink that purchase, because someone is taking you for a ride.

Holy crap. I missed that. That is definitely true. RRA was founded in 1996. They did build ARs for someone else after they left Les Baer Custom in '92 (a guess) but I can't remember who.
But those guns wouldn't have their name on the lower.

Just to be sure, I'd simply give RRA a call. Get the serial number from the seller and run it by RRA.

Don

 

[mardoy]

First thanks for all the info.

Yep, I just read about the RRA history. I believe the Larsons began to build ARs for Eagle Arms in Coal Valley, Illinois in 1993 just before forming Tolerance Plus which then became RRA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_River_Arms

My question now is if I can legally build up a preban Eagle Arms lower (they only made lowers apparently) that was never assembled as a complete semi-auto assault weapon prior to September 1994? If that is legal the question then becomes what type of upper would best be suited to an Eagle Arms lower?

Finally, just wanting to clarify all of this bayonet lug talk. It is my understanding that the bayonet lug is just another "evil" feature no more or less evil than the flash suppressor, telescoping stock, magazine, or pistol grip. Is there something I am missing on this?

A kingdom to anyone who can point me in the direction of a Ct. legal (non-colt), preban lower!!!

 

[dcmdon]

CT does NOT have any requirement that a lower was ever built into a functional firearm prior to the ban. I have confirmed this with the CT state police and Deputy Attorney General Steve Sarnoski. A quick read of the law does not give any indication this is the case and there has not been any case law brought before the CT courts around this question.

So, as long as its not named in the statute by brand and model and made before the ban date, you are good.

This is DIFFERENT from (I believe) CA and some other states, where they have to worry about that nonsense. (its all nonsense really)

As always, any discussion of the CT AWB would be incomplete without this:
http://www.jud.ct.gov/JI/criminal/glossary/assaultweapon.htm

Re, what kind of upper is best suited, the answer is all of them. All mil-spec lowers are identical.
What kind of rifle do YOU want to build?

Anything from a 10" carbine with a telescoping stock, threaded bbl and a bayo lug to a 18" designated marksman's SPR is fine. Its all in how you accessorize.

Or better yet, buy multiple uppers. There's no law that says you can't have 3 or 4 or 100 uppers for your pre-ban lower. It takes about 10 seconds to change over.

 

[Cabinetman]

I altered a couple of uppers for a buddy by doing just what was suggested above: tack welded a bit of weld on it making it impossible for a bayo to be installed. However, should it be legal in the future, a file and a few minutes work would do the trick. I, too, was pleased that someone else mentioned the threaded barrel issue. A tack of weld to "permanently" make it unremovable without damage will take care that that. Finally, to find a pre-ban lower, you'd be well served to go to the AR-15 forum and poke around some of the 'free states' forums and post up there. Only a handful of states still have the AWB so the balance of states will have plenty of those "old, musty" lowers. While they do usually command a bit of a premium, the prices are much lower than the ones out there when the ban was in full effect. Remember those days? Seeing old prebans with price tags of $1000 was not unusual.

Rome

 

[dcmdon]

You can also silver solder a muzzle brake onto a pre-ban upper. This is considered permanent by the ATF and is easy to remove if you have the right torch. Its easier to take apart than a welded on brake.

 

[shadowr434]

....

 

[ptanks56]

Just cut off the lug and you are good.

This is one gun application that a Dremel tool IS a good fit for. Cut off wheel + dremel = GTG

 

[dcmdon]

If the theaded is pre ban Its ok from what Ive been told.

Whoa, stop the presses. YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD WRONG.

First, Shadowr - please remove that post. It adds nothing and could confuse people.

Then, read this thread from the beginning. Its only 2 pages. The words "pre-ban" have 2 general meanings:

1) refers to whether the lower receiver was made before the ban in '94
2) refers to whether the upper and/or lower has the "banned" features (telescoping stock, threaded bbl, flash hider, bayo lug)

If the threaded is pre-ban, meaning it was made before the ban, has NOTHING to do with its legality. An upper is not a firearm. An upper is simply a firearm part.
If you put an old, legitimately pre-ban upper on a newer lower, congratulations, you are now a FELON. Because the firearm (the lower) is still a post ban and can't have the evil features noted above)

Further, if your pre-ban (pre-94) lower is a Colt, your gun is illegal because the Colt was excluded by name. There are very rare exceptions to this. The statute says "Colt AR-15 and Sporter". 99.9% of all pre-ban AR style guns were either AR-15s or Sporters. A few were made that were named something else, but you'd know it if you had one since you would have paid quite a premium for it.



Please take a look

 

[dcmdon]

This is one gun application that a Dremel tool IS a good fit for. Cut off wheel + dremel = GTG

Absolutely. A hacksaw works great too. The point is to cut it off so its not flush, then dress it off with a file.

Actually, a dremel works great on anything is you use it that way. i.e. use it for any heavy cutting and then finish off with a file or stone. But a lot of applications don't work that way.