Immediate Action

[TonyD]

I wanted to touch on a subject that most shooters don't think about, malfunctions. I want to address the philosphy more than actually getting into procedure. Many instructors out there today will teach a specific way to clear malfunctions. I believe a lot of folks are trying to re-invent the wheel, so to speak, so folks will keep spending their money on attending their classes. I also believe some instructors and competitions encourage bad habits.

Keep in mind this is an overview and will not address every possible malfunction and the following statements are my opinions based on my experience.

Malfunctions can occur for numerous reasons that can basically be broke down into the following categories:

Weapons failure; Be it a hard breakage or foreign objects in the breach or chamber.

Magazine failure; Bent or malformed lips, stuck follower, weak or broken spring, or foreign material that prevents the rounds to go into battery.

Ammunition; Weak rounds that prevent full cycling of your weapon, stove pipes, etc.

Shooter failure; Anything from not seating a new magazine to inadvertenantly hitting the mag release.

Many acronyms have been derived to help the shooter remember the sequences to follow during a failure and I'll not elaborate on each of those here.

So, what do we do when our weapon goes click instead of bang?

It is my opinion that that the quickest and most efficient way to solve any malfunction is to identify that problem and that means putting eyes on the weapon, even if only for a split second, while performing the mechcanical functions we've all been taught.

There are several acceptable ways to perform IAD's. The most important part is to learn and practice one of those acceptable routines.

Semper Fi!

 

[Cross-X]

TonyD,

I am interested in this topic. How do you clear a complex malfunction, such as a round in the chamber that will not extract?

Or, for those of us revolver shooters out there, what about a round in the cylinder, underneath the star ejector?

 

[Rpriestlyjr]

For a stuck cartridge in the chamber, rule of thumb is to wait 30 minutes with the gun pointed safely down range and the bolt foreward. After the 30 minutes, open the bolt and lock it to the rear, assemble a cleaning rod, insert it into the muzzle and gently tap the cartridge out. Keep your face and all body parts as clear from the gun as possible. Then throw the round into the woods.
For a round stuck under the star extractor, I've had to pull and pry the round out. You won't hurt the steel due to the fact that the case and bullet are softer than the steel. A Bic pen does me o.k.

 

[Rpriestlyjr]

By the way, the worst possible malfunction I've had with a gun was a 'pop and no kick' or a squib. It was with my .22 revolver. I had the .22WRM cylinder in and loaded with Long Rifles. Fired about 7 normal shots, then it just sounded really weak. I almost fired the ninth time, but thought better. I cleared and safed it and put a piece of cleaning rod in the barrel. Wouldn't you know that the rod went down only half way!
So I knock the thing out, go home and clean the hell out of it and try again. All combinations of rounds and haven't had it happen again. Must have been the rounds.

 

[Adam_MA]

I think we are talking about clearing malfunctions in a combat situation. Where waiting "30 minutes" before doing anything won't don. You would be 29 minutes into the wait DEAD.

In a combat/self defense situation, a squib round stuck in the barrel means that you better be able to either lock yourself down in a safe position, or run like hell.

I think this is a good topic for discussion. We have all read about the typical "Tap, Rack, Bang" theory, however that will not fix all instances.

I have been lucky enough to have been instructed by Jim Conway, and actually been under his watchful eye when I had a FTE, after he went over malfunction clearing. He did some situations where he stove-piped a spent casing and had me clear it. Thanks Jim!

For most people it might go something like this...

CLICK:
Tap - The bottom of the mag to make sure it's seated properly
Rack - Rotate the gun to the ejection port side (right side for most guns) and rack the slide.
Bang - Bang, cool done... Click. Oh SHIT!

If you get the Oh SHIT.. Now what...
Then you move on to your next clearing sequence. Strip the mag, rack the slide, new mag, rack slide and 'hopefully' BANG

Others?

Adam

 

[C-pher]

I think we are talking about clearing malfunctions in a combat situation. Where waiting "30 minutes" before doing anything won't don. You would be 29 minutes into the wait DEAD.

I was thinking the same thing when I was reading his posts. It's weird how we seem to think alike sometimes. [shock]

Someone on here was talking about taking dummy rounds and mixing them up and loading them into your magazines with live rounds, but trying to not know where in the magazine it's loaded. Or have a buddy load your magazines for you.

This way you have to get used to clearing some type of malfunction.

Yet this doesn't help you with a stovepipe or a squib.

 

[KMaurer]

I think we are talking about clearing malfunctions in a combat situation. Where waiting "30 minutes" before doing anything won't don. You would be 29 minutes into the wait DEAD.

In a combat/self defense situation, a squib round stuck in the barrel means that you better be able to either lock yourself down in a safe position, or run like hell.

Amen. Even the NRA, which tends to be very conservative in this area, says to wait 30 seconds. which is roughly 29 seconds too long in combat.

...

CLICK:
Tap - The bottom of the mag to make sure it's seated properly
Rack - Rotate the gun to the ejection port side (right side for most guns) and rack the slide.
Bang - Bang, cool done... Click. Oh SHIT!

If you get the Oh SHIT.. Now what...
Then you move on to your next clearing sequence. Strip the mag, rack the slide, new mag, rack slide and 'hopefully' BANG

That's the way that I've always been taught, Adam. The important thing is to practice both these drills over and over, so that you do them automatically. If you ever have to stop and think about what to do on a two-way range, you're almost certainly dead.

Ken

 

[TonyD]

I'm sorry I missed Darius' question until now. Adam, that was a great illustration of a typical IAD.

A hard stoppage is a hard stoppage. In over twenty years I've only had one and that was on the range qualifing with a wheel gun. After the third round it became a very short club.

There are no immediate action drills that I know of to clear a hard stoppage. This is one of the reasons that the individual who carries a handgun for personal protection has only one priority - fighting his way out of trouble as quickly as possible. This may sound like a 'cop-out' but it is true.

Carrying a sidearm as a civillian is a defensive measure. Its only purpose is to give you an added measure to get out of a bad situation. It is NOT fool-proof and as with any piece of mechanical hardware it is subject to failure at some point.

 

[Cross-X]

Tony, just after posting my question, I experienced a hard stoppage with my S&W Airweight snub revolver.

The cylinder locked up completely. The only thing I could see that looked wrong was the screw on the upper rear corner of the cover plate had backed out several turns.

Since I knew I was out of my depth, I shipped the gun to Greg Derr on the South Shore and he fixed practically overnight. Greg is the owner of Greg Derr Precision, a gunsmith and FFL dealer.

When I picked up the gun from him a couple days ago, he said that the loose coverplate caused the internal parts of the action to fall out of alignment, in turn causing the jam.

Greg fixed the problem by drilling and tapping the threads, replacing the screw, and, while he had my gun apart, he lightened and smoothed the trigger pull, and painted the front sight blade bright orange.

Now my gun is much, much better than new, but, until Greg fixed it, it was just an expensive paperweight!

 

[DR]

Someone on here was talking about taking dummy rounds and mixing them up and loading them into your magazines with live rounds, but trying to not know where in the magazine it's loaded. Or have a buddy load your magazines for you.

This way you have to get used to clearing some type of malfunction.

This is a great excuse for having a bunch of magazines. I do this, loading my magazines with zero, one, or two dummy rounds. If I'm thinking ahead I'll do it the night before I go to the range. Then I can surprise myself when I go shooting. Despite the fact that I loaded the mags myself I still sometimes stare dumbly at my "malfunctioning" pistol. ("Gun no go bang; now what?") I'm happy to say that I'm getting better at making tap-rack a reflex response.

I do wonder how much additional risk this causes. I may get a hangfire that goes off just as I'm pulling the slide out of battery. I'm using an all-steel pistol, standard pressure ammo, and I don't put my hand over the ejection port so I figure I'm as safe as I can be and still practice unexpected failures.

 

[JimConway]

Since Adam insists on blaming everything on me, I will speak up. generally, when a revolver has a MALF tha gun is out of the fight. While there are a few situations, mostly, something breaking, that can take a semi out of the fight, most MALFs can be corrected in 1 to 5 seconds. There are four MALFs for a semi which are:
Failure to fire
Failure to eject (stove Pipe)
Double feed, and
Empty gun

Somone once said that when you press the trigger and the gun does not go bang, it is the loudest sound in the world. There are two approaches to dealing with a MALF. The first is diagnostic approach and the other is standardized approach. In the diaganosic approach, you define the type of MALF and then fix it. There is, however a serious problem with this approach, namely human reaction times. First you have to react to the fact that you have a problem. Then you have to decide what is the correct way to fix what you saw. Only after these delays do yuou fix the MALF
There is another way (the name escapes me). You train yourself that if the gun does not go bang, you move and do a tap-roll-rack. You can do all of this faster than the sum of both of the reaction times that I mentioned above.While you are doing this, you should look at the gun and can move directly to fixing the specific problem, if it is a double feed or out of ammo. The advantage of this approach is that it is faster and you are moving off the line and hopefully to cover. What you have done is to eliminate two separate reaction times and saved about a second, right there.
This approach is based on the fact that a failure to fire is the most common MALF which is frequently caused by a mag that is not seated or an empty chamber. (I saw both of these this past weekend)

 

[Rpriestlyjr]

Well, I'd have to excuse myself for the '30 minute rule of thumb' that I had instilled in me.
We kept it all the same at all ranges as engineers. Just to keep it simple.
-firing pin hits primer-gun no boom-pull it from the line and put it down for 30 minutes-then clear the gun and hope for the best.
-firing device pulled-bangalore no boom-wait 30 minutes and hope for the best.

Just thinking safety.

On the other hand, in a combat environment, Cock-Watch-Pull always was the norm. Immediate Action. Not Corrective Action. Anything after the Cock-Watch-Pull meant that you'd have to perform some type of remedial/corrective action.

My bad.

 

[SnakeEye]

i think the biggest problem that all this training and acronism hoarding breeds
is that people tend to think that their firearm is their only option and that they will only survive if they can get that next round in the chamber.. They get locked into fixing the malfunction... tunnelvision..
they may unsuccessfully be trying to fix something that perhaps cannot be cleared at all in the field and find themselves in a situation with a firearm that wont function regardless of what they do instead of perhaps running or seeking alternate means of ending the altercation.
what they dont seem to teach is after how many failed attempts does one simply give up and move onto the next available force option.

 

[jamesK1]

hi

I wanted to touch on a subject that most shooters don't think about, malfunctions. I want to address the philosphy more than actually getting into procedure. Many instructors out there today will teach a specific way to clear malfunctions. I believe a lot of folks are trying to re-invent the wheel, so to speak, so folks will keep spending their money on attending their classes. I also believe some instructors and competitions encourage bad habits.

Keep in mind this is an overview and will not address every possible malfunction and the following statements are my opinions based on my experience.

Malfunctions can occur for numerous reasons that can basically be broke down into the following categories:

Weapons failure; Be it a hard breakage or foreign objects in the breach or chamber.

Magazine failure; Bent or malformed lips, stuck follower, weak or broken spring, or foreign material that prevents the rounds to go into battery.

Ammunition; Weak rounds that prevent full cycling of your weapon, stove pipes, etc.

Shooter failure; Anything from not seating a new magazine to inadvertenantly hitting the mag release.

Many acronyms have been derived to help the shooter remember the sequences to follow during a failure and I'll not elaborate on each of those here.

So, what do we do when our weapon goes click instead of bang?

It is my opinion that that the quickest and most efficient way to solve any malfunction is to identify that problem and that means putting eyes on the weapon, even if only for a split second, while performing the mechcanical functions we've all been taught.

There are several acceptable ways to perform IAD's. The most important part is to learn and practice one of those acceptable routines.

Semper Fi!

an old blast from the past.i love it!

 

[Twigg]

... Then throw the round into the woods. ...

Er, on a range one should properly dispose of any "duds".
There's usually a dud bucket somewhere near the firing line.

In a real world defensive situation though I'd just let it fall.

 

[law dawg]

I disagree. A shooter should keep in simple and not try and diagnose the problem. The idea is to make the move as instinctive as possible, just like when the slide locks back and you're out of ammo - RELOAD! You don't think about it, just do it. You don't look at the weapon - "hey, the slide locked back!" - you just load the thing. It's automatic.

If there's a failure to fire step 1 is to Tap the mag, then rack the slide, then re-assess your threat. (TAP/RACK).

If step 1 doesn't solve the problem, make the weapon safe and then reload it. In a normal reload the slide locks back automatically. If you wish to reload it yourself then you, the operator, must set it up. You follow all the steps you would do if you were making the weapon safe. Lock back the slide, strip the mag out, rack the slide to clear it (just like you would if you were making the weapon safe), then load another mag and charge the weapon. This is generally known as LOCK/RIP/RACK/RELOAD. I prefer to think of it as just clearing the weapon, but that's me.

Regardless of the name one gives to it, the principle is to make these actions instinctive and to keep the operator from trying to diagnose the problem. More than likely, if these two actions don't get the job done there is a mechanical problem with the weapon that won't be able to be fixed in the middle of a gunfight. Squib rounds, broken springs, etc. are beyond the operator's abilities at that moment.

Sticking to these automatic-pilot actions will solve the overwhelming majority of problems and enable the operator to get back into the fight as soon as possible. It should also go without saying that, if possible, the above should be done from cover.

 

[JimConway]

What we teach is to tap-rack for every MALF. This will clear all of the most common situations. If that does not work, do as Law Dawg stated (LOCK/RIP/RACK/RELOAD). If, while doing the tap-rack, you see the slide locked back or high brass, transition to the LOCK/RIP/RACK/RELOAD.
The method described by law dawg will work for all type 3 MALFs. There is a easier way that does not work on all guns, but does work on all of my carry guns (1911, Glock or H&K USP) That way is to simply strip the mag out & RACK/RELOAD If you have a plug in your Glock, this will not work.
As law Dawg said, the important is to work on these techniques until you do not have to think about it.

I suggest that all of you listen to what Law Dawg has to say, he is one of the few that really knows

 

[KMaurer]

Whether one take a non-diagnostic approach as Jim and I practice and recommend, or a diagnostic one as Tony does, the important thing is to practice and practice and practice it until whichever approach you use becomes instantaneous and automatic. If you have to stop and think about what to do during a gun fight, you're probably going to be dead well before you manage to fix the problem.

Ken