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Hingham goose hunters vs. beach church service

I actually know the guys very well. They spoke with the police before hand and EPO's and were given the go ahead. Seeming like a case of hunter harassment to me!
 
Latest was that the PD went back and dusted off the town ByLaws . . . since 2003 it's illegal to hunt (or shoot, forgot which he mentioned) on ANY town land!!

So the PD spokesman said "the geese have won"! I hope they shit all over those do-gooders, every day, forever and spread their diseases . . . they deserve nothing less.
 
Does the town own below the highwater mark?

Not being a hunter, I do not know all the intricacies of MA hunting laws nor do I know exactly what is "owned" by any town wrt oceanfront.

One thing that you can be sure of is that Hingham (and other places) will shut down any shooting/hunting on beaches and the geese will "paa-rr-tt-yy" and leave lots of gifts for all to "enjoy"! [thinking]

I have no use for these filthy creatures, but I do know how "PC politics" works in small towns in MA. [sad]
 
If I'm not mistaken, and IANAL, so I could be. Below the high water mark is State Land.(Something left over from Colonial Times) So as long as they are only hunting below the High water mark, they are on State land, so town Laws don't apply.
 
Ownership of Tidelands

"Tideland" is the legal term for all land beneath the waters of the ocean, including lands that are always submerged as well as those in the intertidal area (i.e., between the high and low tide marks). In every coastal state, the use of tidelands is governed by a concept in property law known as the Public Trust Doctrine, which dates back centuries to ancient Roman law. The doctrine states that all rights in tidelands and the water itself are held by the state "in trust" for the benefit of the public. In most states, this means that public ownership begins at the high water mark.

The Massachusetts Bay Colony originally followed this rule, until its legislators decided to transfer ownership of certain tidelands to coastal landowners, in order to encourage private wharf construction on these so-called "intertidal flats." This general land grant was accomplished by the Colonial Ordinances of 1641-47, which in effect moved the line between public and private property to the low water mark, but not farther seaward of the high water mark than "100 rods," or 1,650 feet. This intertidal area (now called "private tidelands") is presumed to belong to the upland property owner, unless legal documentation proves otherwise for a given parcel (as is true in certain segments of Provincetown, for example).

Although the Colonial Ordinance changed the ownership of most intertidal flats from public to private, it did not transfer all property rights originally held in trust by the state. For one thing, no rights to the water itself (as distinct from the underlying lands) were relinquished by the Ordinance. Moreover, the law specifically reserved for the public the right to continue to use private tidelands for three purposes-fishing, fowling, and navigation.



Scope of Public and Private Rights

Over the years, Massachusetts courts have ruled that the scope of activities on private tidelands covered by the reserved public rights of fishing, fowling, and navigation is broad, and includes all of their "natural derivatives." For example:

* The right to fish includes the right to seek or take any fish, shellfish, or floating marine plants, from a vessel or on foot;
* The right to navigate includes the right to conduct any activity involving the movement of a boat, vessel, float, or other watercraft, as well as the transport of people and materials and related loading and unloading activity; and
* The right to fowl includes the right to hunt birds for sport as well as sustenance. (The Massachusetts Attorney General takes the position that the right of fowling also includes other ways that birds can be "used," such as birdwatching, but also notes that this issue has not yet been addressed by the courts.)

Clearly, these rights cover a variety of both old and new activities that many people enjoy, such as surfcasting and windsurfing. Still, the courts have imposed some limits. The right of fishing, for example, does not allow the use of structures for aquaculture or the taking of plant debris washed up on the beach. Also, courts have made it clear that the public right to use this area does not include the right to simply stroll, sunbathe, or otherwise engage in recreation unrelated to fishing, fowling, or navigation. Without permission from the landowner, such general recreation is trespassing. There is only one narrow exception to this rule-because there are no private property rights in the water itself, the public is allowed to swim in the intertidal zone provided the swimmer does not touch the private land underneath or use it to enter or leave the water.

The distinction between public and private rights is much simpler on either side of the intertidal zone, i.e. on submerged lands to the seaward side and on the dry shore to the landward side. Except on filled tidelands (which is another story altogether), all rights to use the area above the high water mark generally belong to the upland property owner, and public access on private land can occur only with permission. On the other hand, below the low water (or 100 rod) mark, the public is almost always within its rights to walk, swim, or enjoy other recreational activity. With very few exceptions, these tidelands are still state property.

http://www.mass.gov/czm/shorelinepublicaccess.htm
 
If I'm not mistaken, and IANAL, so I could be. Below the high water mark is State Land.(Something left over from Colonial Times) So as long as they are only hunting below the High water mark, they are on State land, so town Laws don't apply.
In MA, the property line goes down to low water. These hunters couldn't have been below low water unless they were wading or in a boat.

How the right of the public to fish and fowl in the intertidal land is affected by the town bylaws is well beyond my meager legal understanding.
 
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M1911 - You are correct but there is another law on the books that pertains to waterfowlers. That law says that below the high tide mark they are good to go. I will look for the exact law.
 
M1911 - You are correct but there is another law on the books that pertains to waterfowlers. That law says that below the high tide mark they are good to go. I will look for the exact law.

glockshooter, that's what I'm referring to, which kevlar already brought up. Private property extends to the low water line, but you have the right to fish or fowl between low and high tide. But are those rights subordinate to town bylaws or not? One says you can hunt, the other says you can't.

Clearly the police claim that the town bylaw trumps that law. Whether or not that is true is probably beyond most of our legal knowledge. Which is the point I was making above.
 
M-1911 - I see exactly where you are coming from. State law is above town law. I know for a fact that the state says its good to go. Patriot ledger is supposedly writing another article that has the new facts in it.
 
then there is the whole issue of a federal waterway, which is how they hunt up in Wakefield and Lynnfield around the old Colonial Hilton.

Even though the Saugus river is all but dead, if you shoot it from a boat, it's legal
 
Keep your church sermons in your church, learn to heed your own preachings, and turn the other cheek. Technically any state law trumps town bi-laws. Just like federal law supersedes state law. However, until its gone to court, innocent people exercising their rights will continue to be persecuted. All it will take is someone to spend some serious money on serious lawyers and we can cleanup all the lame town anti-hunting/anti-gun/anti-freedom laws. Which I believe has stated to happen in DC and Chicago.
 
Reverend: “Certainly, when it’s obvious there’s a prayer meeting going and small kids, I would hope hunter would find another time to hunt.”

Certainly, Reverend, when it's obviously GOOSE season, perhaps you should move your prayer session to a church???
 
I'd like to drive on the beach with this during mass and cook some geese.... [rofl]

I hate those things all they do is crap all over the place and wander into traffic. They are like flying poop dispensers, nature's larger version of a pigeon.

 
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From what I've read: The Colonial Ordinance of 1641 grants the rights to tideland below mean low water to the Commonwealth. The limits of private ownership extends to mean low-water but not to exceed 100 rods (1650 feet). Although that land between mean high-water and mean low-water (not to exceed 1650 feet) may be in private ownership, the public has rights to fishing and fowling in that area.
 
My hunting buddies and I had this battle with an inland town about hunting on a frozen water way. the EPO's laid the smack down and told the cops to leave my buddy alone.
 
So, what was the final outcome here? Were they able to continue hunting, or did they need to stop?
 
My dad lives in Hingham, I asked him about this two weeks ago. They are not able to continue to hunt on the town beach but they can go out to the island offshore and continue to hunt.
 
So, what was the final outcome here? Were they able to continue hunting, or did they need to stop?

the town find a by-law prohibiting this.

But the hunters are fine, because they had the OK from the cops and mass wildlife (or one of those agencies)

that would have been a good time to teach the kids about evolution, and why the hunters were superior to hose geese...oh i forgot, the church doesnt believe in that.
 
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