got bit...again

[LORD of WAR]

ok...so recently ive wanted an m1 carbine...why i dont know because im into EBR's now but i did start my collection off with only milsurp rifles

would like a carbine then a garand

what are the major war time manufacturers?

what am i looking for for authenticity?

also...let me state i want 1 with a bayonet lug (need to keep it somewhat evil!)
so that may limit some manufactuers

ive read about flat and round bolt heads, hand guards, stocks, cartouches...lets keep it simple...whats my best bet for an authentic war time carbine?

also keep in mind...im one of those sickos that likes MINT rifles...so i dont mind paying upwarrds of $1200 for a perfect condition gun!

thanx

 

[Pilgrim]

It's unlikely that you'll find an 'original' carbine or Garand. Most all have been thru one of more rebuilds and they didn't care which mfg part went on which rebuild. If you do find one, it's probably because someone collected all the necessary parts to put one back as it left the factory

As to bayo lugs on carbines; most that went thru rebuild late in the war had them (called type 3 bands) added.

All other parts, ie,flat bolts were early, round later, flip sights were early, high wood was early, push type safeties were early, ended up mixed during rebuilds. They were usually referred to as type 1,2,3 depending on when the gun was made .

Garands, I haven't studied as much.

 

[LORD of WAR]

well when i meant original i meant as many matching serial #'s as possible

i mean i know no rifle is TRULY original...ive read books(yes i can read) and have found out that sometimes during the course of battle soldiers were known for replacing broken or damaged pieces to their weapons with ones that were lying around the battle field...

i see alot of inlands out there...whats the deal with them? i see winchesters command high prices...why?

i also know of saginaw, rockola, ibm, quality hardware etc..id just like something as close to authentic as possible...as most of my milsurp collection are hand picked cherry pieces that were all...for the most part either re-arsenaled or unnissued...i like milsurp weapons that have most of the metal finish present and a clean undamaged stock

 

[LoginName]

For what you're describing (with regard to condition and matching numbers), finding one for $1,200 might be difficult.

Here's a few examples (although I suspect this guys prices might be rather high), ...

http://home.att.net/~ra-carbines/carbines.html

Whom manufactured it does dictate price in a collectors market (some manufacturers made more than others... the fewer they made, the more desirable). If you just want one for the range or shits-and-giggles, Inlands and Underwoods can be reasonably priced.

If you're not yet a member of the ODCMP, I'd recommend joining and see what you can pick-up in the auctions...

http://auction.odcmp.com/auctions/index.asp

Vellnueve can probably educate you more about M1 Carbines than you'd care to know.

 

[Nickle]

ok...so recently ive wanted an m1 carbine...why i dont know because im into EBR's now but i did start my collection off with only milsurp rifles

Nice item to have.

would like a carbine then a garand

Personally, I'd consider doing both at the same time, or other way around.

Either way, I'd buy it from CMP. odcmp.com

what are the major war time manufacturers?

what am i looking for for authenticity?

Buy from CMP, and you're all set, M1 Carbine wise. M1 Garand "Holy Grail" is a Winchester, and every one of them went overseas. M1 Carbine "Holy Grails" will be Winchester, IBM and a couple others.

also...let me state i want 1 with a bayonet lug (need to keep it somewhat evil!)
so that may limit some manufactuers

No, it won't limit an authentic M1, Carbine or Garand.

ive read about flat and round bolt heads, hand guards, stocks, cartouches...lets keep it simple...whats my best bet for an authentic war time carbine?

See above. Do a little research, and buy a WW2 manufacturer, but, IIRC, Carbines were all made during WW2.

also keep in mind...im one of those sickos that likes MINT rifles...so i dont mind paying upwarrds of $1200 for a perfect condition gun!

thanx

$1200 isn't going to buy you even close to mint.

A "Mint" WW2 Garand is almost certainly a fake, or will cost in the multiple thousands of $$$. All (or almost all) WW2 Garands have been rebuilt at least once, most more than that.

If you want a CORRECT Garand, you're talking Korean War vintage, and NONE of them went to Korea. WW2 vintage M1's were used in Korea.

Check Scott Duff's books.

Blood hound, just so you know, I'm pretty well up on the M1 Garand, and somewhat up on the Carbines (Dwarven1 might be better on the Carbine). I am very up to speed on buying from CMP. And they will be your best deal.

 

[Nickle]

i see winchesters command high prices...why?

Well, a piece of dog crap with a S&W, Colt or Winchester logo on it will bring high prices, especially at gun shows.

Truth be known, Springfield Garands were the best made, Winchester some of the worst.

Yeah, my M1 Garand is a Winchester. VAR (Danish) barrel, Winchester bolt and stock.

Oh, the serial # is ONLY on the receiver of an M1 Garand. When somebody tries to sell you one with "matching numbers", it's either an idiot or a hoax.

 

[LORD of WAR]

so far these have caught my eye

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=107546803

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=107744791

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=107750223

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=106974518

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=107712875

 

[hminsky]

If you buy from the CMP, in my experience they will fix anything that is wrong, right away. So that is worth a whole bundle of $$ right there.

 

[Pilgrim]

i see alot of inlands out there...whats the deal with them? i see winchesters command high prices...why?

Inland carbines - lots were made.. the most of any mfg.
Winchester carbines - lots less were made.

I'd have to check the stats but I think that Inland made more than all other mfgr's combined.

 

[LORD of WAR]

M1 Carbine Production
Inland Manufacturing Division, G.M.C...... 2,632,097 43.0%
Winchester Repeating Arms Co................ 828,059 13.5%
Underwood-Elliot-Fisher Co.................. 545,616 8.9%
*Saginaw Steering Gear Div., G.M.C........... 517,212 8.5%
** National Postal Meter Co.................... 413,017 6.8%
*** Quality Hardware & Machine Co............... 359,666 5.9%
International Business Machines Corp (IBM).. 346,500 5.7%
Standard Products Co........................ 247,160 4.0%
Rock-Ola Co................................. 228,500 3.7%
--------- Total: 6,221,220

 

[kevin9]

...
also keep in mind...im one of those sickos that likes MINT rifles...so i dont mind paying upwarrds of $1200 for a perfect condition gun!

$1200 = 10% of 10% down-payment on $120K house , but hey it's your money and life.

Seriously, good luck finding what you're looking for.

 

[USMA-82]

Here's my post from our March 2008 thread - still the best advice I can give:

If you're looking for the regional expert on M-1 Carbines, here he is - Mr. Charles Hadley of Cape Elizabeth, ME. He's the one you see at most of the gun shows in New England with three racks full of carbines.

Give him a call at 207-741-2655 (or 207-767-2708). But be prepared for a long conversation - he loves to talk carbines!

Good Luck!

 

[stoneypete]

Here's my post from our March 2008 thread - still the best advice I can give:

If you're looking for the regional expert on M-1 Carbines, here he is - Mr. Charles Hadley of Cape Elizabeth, ME. He's the one you see at most of the gun shows in New England with three racks full of carbines.

Give him a call at 207-741-2655 (or 207-767-2708). But be prepared for a long conversation - he loves to talk carbines!

Good Luck!

+1 and Mr Hadley. He and I spoke at length last year. Good man.

 

[Carguy]

Isn't there a gunshow in Marlboro next month? Mr. Hadley will be there...he's always there...his booth is the one with a giant wooden M1 hanging over it!! Call him, discuss what you want and he'll bring it to the show. I picked up a beautiful Colt 1903 pistol from him last year, to save the shipping he said he'd have it for me at the show.

I'd love to know what he says as I'm very interested in an M1 Carbine as well but I am thinking about nothing but a shooter that happens to be a piece of history...can't afford a "rare collectible". Guess I need to join GOAL so I can join CMP...my club is affiliated yet.

 

[vellnueve]

ok...so recently ive wanted an m1 carbine...why i dont know because im into EBR's now but i did start my collection off with only milsurp rifles

would like a carbine then a garand

what are the major war time manufacturers?

already listed earlier

what am i looking for for authenticity?

Carbine manufacturers shared parts. The match that's the easiest to make is to match the date of manufacture of the barrel to the rough date for the receiver. After that, there have been entire books written about matching the parts

also...let me state i want 1 with a bayonet lug (need to keep it somewhat evil!)
so that may limit some manufactuers

You'll find bayonet lugs on all manufacturers. They were refitted near the end of the war, but carbines in World War II were used almost exclusively with the earlier band designs

ive read about flat and round bolt heads, hand guards, stocks, cartouches...lets keep it simple...whats my best bet for an authentic war time carbine?

Wartime configuration could be either sight type, a flat bolt, a walnut stock, possibly an I-cut or high wood stock. You'd look for a non bayonet lugged rifle if you wanted true wartime config, but you already mentioned you didn't want that.

also keep in mind...im one of those sickos that likes MINT rifles...so i dont mind paying upwarrds of $1200 for a perfect condition gun!

$1200 for a carbine in mint, factory original condition would be a steal. It's not uncommon to see carbines like that going for over $2000. I would recommend checking out Four Seasons for some reasonably priced carbines (they had close to a dozen the last time I was there), and then add parts as necessary to reach your desired config. Hunting down the appropriate parts is an obsession in and of itself.

thanx

Reply above

My best advice is to go the CMP route. The Rack Grade Saginaw S'G' I got last June came out disgustingly beautiful, with very little wear. They're all refinished, but very nice.

 

[LORD of WAR]

ok so i found a carbine im interested in...here are the specs

Winchester receiver with serial # 5806618
the barrel has either a V or W stamped into it...looks like it was a W but was worn off
front barrel band stamped KI
Circle P on pistol grip
left part of the stock stamped RIA with EB underneath is a square
right part of stock stamped WRA with GHD under neath and next to crossed cannons
safety stamped with a P
mag release stamped with an M
rear sight stamped with an H inside what looks like a shield
W stamped into the sling well

there was no date or or flaming bomb stamped on the barrel...barrel had bayonet lug...parkerizing looked to be about 95+% and the wood was about the same...gun was marked for under $1k

comments...ideas....

i saw a "white bag" winchester at the concord show for something like $1400 and this rifle appeared to be in close proximity to it as far as condition goes

 

[vellnueve]

If you can give a more accurate range than "under 1K" it would help.

 

[LORD of WAR]

8 fiddy