Going Gunless - Conscientious Objectors Registering as PPs in NICS

[drgrant]

Food for thought, although it would be very difficult to determine....

Joe Smith douchebag liberal moonbat voluntarily registers as a PP

Joe Smith normalguy citizen wants to buy a gun

2nd joe smith is now denied as a false postiive in nics. His rights are essentially being blocked by a wholly fraudulent entry in the NICS system....

Lawsuit time?

Although I've often maintained that ANY false denial is probably a basis for a massive fed lawsuit, too. At some point or another the legal stricture of "A right delayed is a right denied" needs to
be explored by the courts. This shit has gone on far too long.

-Mike

 

[Squire]

Government documented Virtue Signaling...hell, they should charge them $10K for the privilege of signaling their virtue, and donate it to some inner city youth programs to address the real issues of "gun violence" head on.

 

[MaverickNH]

Joe Smith douchebag liberal moonbat voluntarily registers as a PP
Joe Smith normalguy citizen wants to buy a gun
2nd joe smith is now denied as a false postiive in nics. His rights are essentially being blocked by a wholly fraudulent entry in the NICS system....
-Mike

Interesting point. Naming babies seems to go in trend cycles, with an ethnic and racial component in popularity. Many have noted that some 40% of Blacks are PPs (1/3 felons and others) and that, as NICS uses names/birthdays and phonetically similar names and neighboring birth dates to flag applicants, the false positive rate among Blacks is relatively much higher than among Whites.

Rabid gun-hate (and rabid Trump-hate, GOP-hate, NRA-hate, etc.) is primarily a white progressive/liberal characteristic so voluntary PPs would flood NICS with names popular amongst white males, increasing the false-positive rate. Address, SSN, height, weight, eye-color, etc., are used in the 1st-level investigation. If Dems push their 1-day or unlimited Hold plan for NICS that would spell a large increase in rights delayed/denied for a small percentage of voluntary PPs entered.

Quite a scheming lot, these anti-gunners... I wrote an email to the author but expect no reply - their “common-sense gun law” debate/discussion does not include reaching across the aisle. He’s written a stream of gun-related articles on SSRN, all with an anti-gun bent.

 

[Kevin_NH]

Some of the proposals for "Open NICS" include a similar proposition.

To ensure Non-FFL access to NICS-like lookups isn't abused for other purposes, primarily discrimination against felons (e.g. in housing), some Open NICS proposals would allow "Conscientious Objectors" to proactively register themselves as a ineligible. Thus a prospective landlord running an "Open NICS" check wouldn't know whether the "No Sale" response was because the person was an actual PP or merely a registered Conscientious Objector.

That wouldn't stop NESers from using Open NICS as a filter when hiring a nanny, plumber, or dog walker

Rabid gun-hate (and rabid Trump-hate, GOP-hate, NRA-hate, etc.) is primarily a white progressive/liberal characteristic so voluntary PPs would flood NICS with names popular amongst white males, increasing the false-positive rate. Address, SSN, height, weight, eye-color, etc., are used in the 1st-level investigation. If Dems push their 1-day or unlimited Hold plan for NICS that would spell a large increase in rights delayed/denied for a small percentage of voluntary PPs entered.

Wouldn't just supplying the (normally voluntary) SSN on your 4473 suffice to work around simple name false matches?

Also, from the article:

The self-registration could be entirely online, if there were sufficient safeguards against registering someone else, such as requiring multiple identifiers, like social security number and a drivers’ license number or passport number. A short, formulaic affidavit or legal declaration could accompany the form as an attachment, as with income tax returns.

The article also suggests a small ID card showing registration; I can see parents forcing their dependent children to "opt-in" for Self-inclusion in the NICS Index, and pastors exhorting their entire congregation to register and show the card to receive communion.

 

[Garys]

If there is going to be a NICS, the priority should be on accurate data entry. It shouldn't have taken my son over 10 years to get a dismissal entered into the system. His one criminal case was dismissed in 2005, but as of 2017 was still listed as "open."

 

[Randy Lahey]

Who the hell is this Drury fellow?

 

[MaverickNH]

Here’s the funny parts from the author:

“I want to waive my Second Amendment rights. I want to do this not because I want to restrict the freedom or behaviors of others, but because I feel overwhelming disgust and revulsion toward guns and what they have become in our society.“ [And I need to know that and give a sh*t?]

“The voluntary legal ineligibility would also apply to state permits and licenses for buying, owning, carrying, or hunting with firearms. It would constitute a waiver of all Second Amendment rights, with a government-issued certificate or card that the person is legally “gunless”. [Will TSA accept your Gunless ID and waive you through screening?]

“...liability insurers could identify with certainty who was gun-free, and could apply an actuarial-based market response in terms of pricing their premiums, both for individual policyholders and for businesses that find ways to favor gunless employees, customers, subcontractors, etc.” [Ah, the old Gun Insurance ploy resurrected! Felons? Don’t ask, don’t tell. Gun Owners? Out those Gun Nuts!]

“One effect I am not worried about is that those who register as gunless will become easy or tempting targets for criminals; empirical evidence suggests that gun ownership attracts criminals.” [Can‘t argue there - nobody steals guns from those who don’t have guns - they just rob, rape, beat and kill them.]

”...those who are gunless as a matter of strong personal conviction will often prefer instead to publicize their certification, which is why issuance of an official certificate is an essential feature...we could broadcast our certification on social media and show our certification cards to others whenever we choose.” [Yeah, a Gun-Free Home app where you can find people without guns. Remember, when seconds count the police are minutes away - so those bad guys gotta be be quick!]

“I am arguing that gun ownership is a vice, a vice that contributes to social decay and the overall prevalence of violence, and I think there are millions of Americans who agree.“ [Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not.]

And that’s through page 7 of 53 - I’m exhausted laughing...the guy has total 720 “hits” from views, media shares, etc., since this past July. What happened to those ”... millions of Americans who agree”?

A slow roll up to millions - maybe 2024?

 

[richc]

I'd much prefer folks like this give up their First Amendment rights...

 

[308rifleman]

Food for thought, although it would be very difficult to determine....

Joe Smith douchebag liberal moonbat voluntarily registers as a PP

Joe Smith normalguy citizen wants to buy a gun

2nd joe smith is now denied as a false postiive in nics. His rights are essentially being blocked by a wholly fraudulent entry in the NICS system....

Lawsuit time?

Although I've often maintained that ANY false denial is probably a basis for a massive fed lawsuit, too. At some point or another the legal stricture of "A right delayed is a right denied" needs to
be explored by the courts. This shit has gone on far too long.

-Mike

Joe goes to see Miguel or Javier in MacArthur Park. Envelope full of dinero gets passed. Joe walks away with M1911A1, you name the type or caliber of Glock or heavier firepower. No fed or state paper work. Money does not just talk. It screams!

 

[42!]

I don't get it. If you don't want to buy a gun then don't buy one. Why do you need a certificate that says you won't buy one? It's just a piece of paper, it doesn't make you any more trustworthy. And if it's used as some sort of pass for a TSA or other security check, then it would just become the first thing a terrorist would do............I guess it would result in a list of fanatics after all.

The only up side I can see is all those Libs who say "if X gets elected I'm leaving" may get the idea that they can protest by renouncing their citizenship.

 

[The5thDentist]

That's just not buying a gun with extra steps.

 

[Drix]

This isnt what NICS was designed for, moreover, NICS will hand out delays based on conflicting information.

If you're john doe, and some other john doe decides to put himself in as a objector is it ok to start getting delays because he's listed himself as a PP? I think not.

Furthermore, what happens when the NICS database is merged to the no fly database?

Keep the database for what it was intended, you want to become a PP as a contentious objector? Do the crime, otherwise virtue signal someplace else.

 

[44marty]

Most (male) conscientious observers are already registered because they have to register as c/o's with Selective Service.

Selective Service System > About > Alternative Service > Conscientious Objector

I'm not a fan of banning c/o's from owning guns. There's two kinds of c/o's here in the US. The first are people with firm Calvinist convictions like the Quakers or the Amish. Those people, mostly the Amish, live in rural areas and are strong participants in hunting. Go on any other regional gun forum, like say PAFOA or one of the ones for Ohio, and they'll talk about the Amish hunting and owning guns and bows, sometimes derisively because the Amish like to hunt in drives and occasionally ignore poaching laws. There's no reason to disarm these people because of their religious beliefs. That's just wrong.

The second type of c/o's are liberals. Those, I don't care about.

Off topic, but the Amish in southern Maryland are breeding an excellent bloodline of Bluetick Coonhounds

I'd much prefer folks like this give up their First Amendment rights...

∆ FOR THE WIN

 

[SpaceCritter]

I don't get it. If you don't want to buy a gun then don't buy one. Why do you need a certificate that says you won't buy one? It's just a piece of paper, it doesn't make you any more trustworthy. And if it's used as some sort of pass for a TSA or other security check, then it would just become the first thing a terrorist would do............I guess it would result in a list of fanatics after all.

The only up side I can see is all those Libs who say "if X gets elected I'm leaving" may get the idea that they can protest by renouncing their citizenship.

The post above by MaverickNH reveals the answer:

“...liability insurers could identify with certainty who was gun-free, and could apply an actuarial-based market response in terms of pricing their premiums, both for individual policyholders and for businesses that find ways to favor gunless employees, customers, subcontractors, etc.” [Ah, the old Gun Insurance ploy resurrected! Felons? Don’t ask, don’t tell. Gun Owners? Out those Gun Nuts!]

 

[ThePreBanMan]

I have no problem with this. They're obviously mentally unfit...

 

[Toytowninc]

At least now theres a use for all the leftover pink trump pu$$y hats for the conscientious objectors to easily identify themselves as unarmed peasants.

 

[beaker]

Maybe we can get them to renounce all of their rights, including the right to vote?

 

[SpaceCritter]

Maybe we can get them to renounce all of their rights, including the right to vote?

Unpossible, the Donks simply harvest your ballot!