Getting pulled over/searched by police...

[Boston_Shooter]

No, no...it's not one of THOSE posts, lol. I was actually just curious about if you in a situation where for whatever reason you are being searched by police (like if someone sees your gun and calls police, etc), and you are carrying a Glock with pre-ban high cap mags (In MA of course)....Would a police officer actually handle your firearm? Check Serial numbers,etc? Do Police officers actually know how to tell if it's pre-ban etc? I was just curious as to whaqt kind of headaches one would encounter, or would they just ask to see a permit, and be done with it?

 

[icyclefar]

This is Massachusetts, anything is possible.

 

[ochmude]

This is Massachusetts, anything is possible.

Exactly. It depends entirely on the specific officer you're dealing with at the time, and the mood that officer happens to be in at that time. It's not like you can say "But NES said you wouldn't do that!" as the cop is disarming you and putting you in the back of his vehicle.

 

[drgrant]

Depends on the LEO you run into and the context of the stop. There are too many variables here to give a clear answer
to your question. You run into a pro gun LEO they might want to see your LTC thats about it- you run into an anti or some
other control freak, and they will be doing all kinds of stupid crap to you.

If the LEO is searching your car for some reason, you're likely not in for a game of happy fun ball, regardless.

As far as to pre ban or not to pre ban, etc, that's all been beaten to death 9000 times in the glock mag thread in
MA gun laws subforum.... let's not rehash that one in this thread, please... there is enough about that issue here:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php/4944-MA-Identifying-Pre-Ban-Glock-Mags

-Mike

 

[GOAL C.M.]

I was shooting with permission on private property in MA once when I had the local PD come up behind me, I didn't know they were there until I stopped shooting, when I heard them call me I turned around and they had drawn on me from behind the doors of their cruisers. They made me drop my handgun into the sand and go sit on the tailgate of my truck. They then proceeded to take my handgun and inspect it, ran the numbers, ran my license, etc..

It turned out fine once they had everything cleared up, defnitely not a fun experience having two guns pointed at you for no reason.

The real kicker was, (I found this out later) they drove through the parking lot on the way to where I was shooting, and stopped to talk to a few people on property that knew both me and the officers, and they STILL proceeded to do what they did.

This is part of the reason I now do what I do.

It has to stop.

 

[TomH]

No, no...it's not one of THOSE posts, lol. I was actually just curious about if you in a situation where for whatever reason you are being searched by police (like if someone sees your gun and calls police, etc), and you are carrying a Glock with pre-ban high cap mags (In MA of course)....Would a police officer actually handle your firearm? Check Serial numbers,etc? Do Police officers actually know how to tell if it's pre-ban etc? I was just curious as to whaqt kind of headaches one would encounter, or would they just ask to see a permit, and be done with it?

Yes (could happen), yes (after an investigation in which your property would be seized for an indefinite amount of time at your expense), and no.

 

[Boston_Shooter]

The purpose of this post wasn't about IDing pre ban mags... Just curious as to what the SOP is on being searched for a weapon, assuming you did nothing wrong, since I don't plan on being pulled over or searched for any illegal activity.

 

[red87930]

If I ever had to have my Glock taken from my holster or handled by the LEO I would very diplomatically remind them that it is very important to have good trigger dicsipline as that is the safety. Getting shot in the femoral artery or having the LE cause a Negligent discharge when checking my firearm could make for a bad day.


Also I have never been and hope not to ever be in a situation where I am asked to drop my weapon. But if I were I would much rather be able to set it down eliminating a chance of a ND. So a question for the LE's out there, Would your command be to drop the firearm or to place it on the ground/table /hood or whatever surface is handiest and then have the victim/perp step away while you continue to cover. If you chose to have the firearm dropped would would have the control not to shoot said dropper if the gun discharged as a result of landing on the grip? I know is is not suppose to happen but I know drop discarges do and I would hate to end up dead because of it if I were in the situation mentioned by GOAL CM.

 

[ochmude]

The purpose of this post wasn't about IDing pre ban mags... Just curious as to what the SOP is on being searched for a weapon, assuming you did nothing wrong, since I don't plan on being pulled over or searched for any illegal activity.

Honestly the best answer anyone, even a LEO, can give you to this question is that the SOP is "officer discretion". Doesn't really matter if it's a red, green, or purple town. Every officer is different and every circumstance is different.

 

[drew]

Qoute: "Depends on the LEO you run into and the context of the stop."
An LEO has to have PC (probable cause)to search your vehicle, unless they have a warrant or you give them permission.& or there is an extreme urgancey If they pull you out of the vehicle or ask you to step out of the vehicle, then would be a good time to tell them that you are carrying or transporting firearms. They will demand to see your LTC, they might verify LTC is up to date and just let you go or continue conducting business with your gun in their possession. They might take your gun or have you slowly tell them where it is, and have you place it down on the ground. They might run you, the gun and your LTC to make sure it's valid and that you don't have any outstanding warrants.... The list could go on and on of what they could do.... Ask them politely why they want you to step out of the car, and make your descission from there.... Hope this helps....
~Drew

 

[Sir_Macadoo]

Just becuase the police are there to ENFORCE the laws, does not mean they KNOW the laws.

 

[drgrant]

I was shooting with permission on private property in MA once when I had the local PD come up behind me, I didn't know they were there until I stopped shooting, when I heard them call me I turned around and they had drawn on me from behind the doors of their cruisers. They made me drop my handgun into the sand and go sit on the tailgate of my truck. They then proceeded to take my handgun and inspect it, ran the numbers, ran my license, etc..

It turned out fine once they had everything cleared up, defnitely not a fun experience having two guns pointed at you for no reason.

The real kicker was, (I found this out later) they drove through the parking lot on the way to where I was shooting, and stopped to talk to a few people on property that knew both me and the officers, and they STILL proceeded to do what they did.

This is part of the reason I now do what I do.

It has to stop.

Jesus. I would probably be pissed.... I can't see pointing a gun at someone clearly engaged in target practice as being justifiable.... ever.

-Mike

 

[Eye5600]

Qoute: "Depends on the LEO you run into and the context of the stop."
An LEO has to have PC (probable cause)to search your vehicle, unless they have a warrant or you give them permission.& or there is an extreme urgancey

The LEO has to THINK he has probable cause to search your vehicle. If, later on, your lawyer convinces the judge that he didn't have PC, then the evidence will be excluded, but you will already endured the stress of the encounter.

And the exclusion of the evidence may not be complete. IANAL, but I bet the COP can use pretty much anything he knows, admissible or not, to inform his discretion. If an improper search of your car turns up anything at all, you may hear about it when you want an LTC.

 

[securityboy]

Just curious as to what the SOP is on being searched for a weapon, assuming you did nothing wrong, since I don't plan on being pulled over or searched for any illegal activity.

There isn't ONE. Seriously every "call", every officer's "past experience" (as well as personal beleif's, "ball busting-ness", even to some degree training) and department's Policy & Procedure is going to vary. So there really is no way anyone can tell you what will happen.

If I ever had to have my Glock taken from my holster or handled by the LEO I would very diplomatically remind them that it is very important to have good trigger dicsipline as that is the safety.

Now I am a pretty laid back guy, but you better plan on doing that VERY DIPLOMATICLY...(speaking only for myself but I think most LEO's out there will concur) You won't end up on my good side by telling me how to do my job, if I am taking your glock from you (even temporarily) there is probably a reason for it.

So a question for the LE's out there, Would your command be to drop the firearm or to place it on the ground/table /hood or whatever surface is handiest and then have the victim/perp step away while you continue to cover.

See my response to the OP's question above regarding SOP.

 

[edhead35]

It's strange. I have talked to officers in MA who think ALL high caps are banned. They had no clue there was such a thing as preban, and they both said that they would most likely take steps as if they were banned mags. They said they would go get some more information so they dont mistakingly bother someone who is within the law.

 

[Boston_Shooter]

It's strange. I have talked to officers in MA who think ALL high caps are banned. They had no clue there was such a thing as preban, and they both said that they would most likely take steps as if they were banned mags. They said they would go get some more information so they dont mistakingly bother someone who is within the law.

This was EXACTLY my concern and the purpose of this thread...

 

[buketduder]

They also might not do much of anything..I have been in vehicles in CT that were pulled over (speeding, traffic violations) where they asked about weapons..not once was my weapon ever touched by an officer..just to see my permit..sometimes they just looked at it..once or twice they brought it back to their car to verify i guess...I cannot speak to cops in mass or hi-cap laws but i honestly thikn if you are legal most cops don't care...if they did..they would not have taken my permit and left me armed in the car..

 

[Realtor MA]

They also might not do much of anything..I have been in vehicles in CT that were pulled over (speeding, traffic violations) where they asked about weapons..not once was my weapon ever touched by an officer..just to see my permit..sometimes they just looked at it..once or twice they brought it back to their car to verify i guess...I cannot speak to cops in mass or hi-cap laws but i honestly thikn if you are legal most cops don't care...if they did..they would not have taken my permit and left me armed in the car..

+1

 

[red87930]

There isn't ONE. Seriously every "call", every officer's "past experience" (as well as personal beleif's, "ball busting-ness", even to some degree training) and department's Policy & Procedure is going to vary. So there really is no way anyone can tell you what will happen.

Now I am a pretty laid back guy, but you better plan on doing that VERY DIPLOMATICLY...(speaking only for myself but I think most LEO's out there will concur) You won't end up on my good side by telling me how to do my job, if I am taking your glock from you (even temporarily) there is probably a reason for it.

See my response to the OP's question above regarding SOP.

I am pretty laid back too and I would want to still be laid back and not laid out after my encounter. I would not look at it as telling you how to do your job but just a note for the safety of everyone. Don't forget I am looking at this through the eyes of someone that does not intend on ever being looked at as the bad guy, if I was in a high stress situation believe me I would keep my mouth shut. But in the case of an LE wanting to remove my firearm from the holster to hold while they checked my license I would assume letting them know the type of weapon and anything else like it's current readiness to fire would only be appreciated. . Someone should have reminded this LEO that just because he dropped the mag he still better treat this "Glock Forty" as a loaded weapon and Oh, by the way no safety so keep your finger off the trigger. He probably wishes someone reminded him of the golden rules before this demonstration

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_91jcFTbLE8

 

[Spanz]

An awful lot of scary news articles start off "and officer jones saw the firearm as his jacket opened....". Well, if you want to be an idiot and show people your legally carried firearm....enjoy explaining it to the cops...face down...on the cold wet pavement. This IS Massachusetts. Keep it the heck hidden!

 

[red87930]

An awful lot of scary news articles start off "and officer jones saw the firearm as his jacket opened....". Well, if you want to be an idiot and show people your legally carried firearm....enjoy explaining it to the cops...face down...on the cold wet pavement. This IS Massachusetts. Keep it the heck hidden!

Reading GOAL CM's post above shows that scary situations happen even when there is no reason for scary to be part of the situation. Which is why I asked my question about dropping the firearm. Anyone that would draw down on someone target shooting is obviously on a short wire. If Goal CM's gun discharged when dropped there is a pretty good chance Goal CM would have been been the recpient of some incoming rounds. Keeping it hidden when target shooting is realy tough on the tailoring.

 

[Jose]

Not MA, but I have been the subject of two traffic stops and one road assistance stop by police here in Ohio since I started carrying.

In Ohio not only does your CHL (concealed handgun license) show up on the MDT when the plates of the vehicle registered to you are queried, you are also required to tell the officer that you are carrying a handgun if indeed you are.

In all three occasions I was armed. In none of those three occasions was I ever asked to give up my pistol (even though cops have the legal authority to do so for the duration of the stop if they so choose). Only on one of those three occasions I was even asked for the license. Otherwise the extent of the officer's interest was knowing where on my body was the handgun.

ETA: If I am ever requested to give up my pistol I will ask the officer if he would like me to give it to him or if he would prefer to remove it from the holster himself. Then we'll take it from there. Personally, I would much prefer to raise my hands and have the officer remove the pistol himself. That's what I would do if I were a cop.

 

[fencer]

I have made the startling realization during my short time her that guns make some cops a wee bit jumpy. I am not saying I blame them but I would be less than thrilled to have a LEO ask for my carry piece. I have also come to understand that things like probable cause and laws may help with the judge but that does not mean that you will not have the pleasure of a knee on the back of your neck by the side of the road.

 

[buketduder]

Not MA, but I have been the subject of two traffic stops and one road assistance stop by police here in Ohio since I started carrying.

In Ohio not only does your CHL (concealed handgun license) show up on the MDT when the plates of the vehicle registered to you are queried, you are also required to tell the officer that you are carrying a handgun if indeed you are.

In all three occasions I was armed. In none of those three occasions was I ever asked to give up my pistol (even though cops have the legal authority to do so for the duration of the stop if they so choose). Only on one of those three occasions I was even asked for the license. Otherwise the extent of the officer's interest was knowing where on my body was the handgun.

ETA: If I am ever requested to give up my pistol I will ask the officer if he would like me to give it to him or if he would prefer to remove it from the holster himself. Then we'll take it from there. Personally, I would much prefer to raise my hands and have the officer remove the pistol himself. That's what I would do if I were a cop.

Ya, one time i was asked where on my body i was carrying and what was i carrying? I think it might have just been from curiosity though..he asked when he gave the permit back..Does anyone really know of someone who was taken out of a car and disarmed from a routine traffic stop? Seems kind of crazy...

Again..i really don't think its much to worry about..CT is not gun friendly by any means...and they are not ripping people out of cars here who have permits and are carrying..i doubt they are doing it in Mass...

 

[securityboy]

...Does anyone really know of someone who was taken out of a car and disarmed from a routine traffic stop? Seems kind of crazy...
Again..i really don't think its much to worry about..CT is not gun friendly by any means...and they are not ripping people out of cars here who have permits and are carrying..i doubt they are doing it in Mass...

I feel safe in saying, ripping people out of cars who are lawfully carrying is not SOP of any PD in even in MA. as for disarming someone for a routine traffic stop, well to that I will say yes it is in my opinion unlikely (and probably uncommon) however kinda like I said in my first post in this tread every "call"/Officer is different, there is no routine...

... If I am ever requested to give up my pistol I will ask the officer if he would like me to give it to him or if he would prefer to remove it from the holster himself. Then we'll take it from there. Personally, I would much prefer to raise my hands and have the officer remove the pistol himself. That's what I would do if I were a cop.

Thats more than likely how I would do it if I felt the need to "disarm" a compliant party with a holstered firearm.

 

[M1911]

No, no...it's not one of THOSE posts, lol. I was actually just curious about if you in a situation where for whatever reason you are being searched by police (like if someone sees your gun and calls police, etc), and you are carrying a Glock with pre-ban high cap mags (In MA of course)....Would a police officer actually handle your firearm?

Quite possibly.

Check Serial numbers,etc?

Also possible.

Do Police officers actually know how to tell if it's pre-ban etc?

Since even Glock can't do that, I doubt the police officer will be able to. But he might think that he can.

 

[flintoid]

Again..i really don't think its much to worry about..CT is not gun friendly by any means...and they are not ripping people out of cars here who have permits and are carrying..i doubt they are doing it in Mass...

It really isn't a big deal. I know a CT state trooper very well (one of the most stand up guys I've ever met, treats my girlfriend and her friends like gold). He's pro 2nd ammendment, and he's actually quite happy to encounter people that practice CC. He believes that the public is safer with more educated responsible law abiding citizens that do so. His fellow coworkers largely feel the same way. Granted, these are the cream of the crop LEOs and not your small town variety.

 

[weekendracer]

Just becuase the police are there to ENFORCE the laws, does not mean they KNOW the laws.

Part of the problem is there are so many laws on the books already, with more added every stinking day. Look at training budgets for most agencies and how much of that training is in law updates or refresher training. You have agencies screaming for more money, public screaming no more taxes, politicians figuring out how to get rich, and the line officer stuck in the middle of that charlie foxtrot.

 

[drgrant]

Part of the problem is there are so many laws on the books already, with more added every stinking day. Look at training budgets for most agencies and how much of that training is in law updates or refresher training. You have agencies screaming for more money, public screaming no more taxes, politicians figuring out how to get rich, and the line officer stuck in the middle of that charlie foxtrot.

The problem lies in the fact that the legislators never, or rarely ever, have to pay the price for the sh**ty laws they create.

They also never have to directly deal with the judicial consequences, either. They don't care about things like "bad law breeds contempt for the law" and things of that sort. If less dumb laws existed, IMHO the level of friction, perceived or otherwise, between law enforcement and the public would decrease dramatically. Not all that long ago it used to be when you attracted the attention of the police, it's probably because you were actually doing something harmful. Now you can attract negative attention for doing something which some hack in the legislature determined to be illegal, regardless of whether or not that prohibited act actually hurts anyone else.

-Mike

 

[Bill Nance]

Who knows what they'll do? It doesn't even have to be in Mass. it's equally possible in a gun-friendly state. It depends on the cop, what the reason was for the stop/search and a hundred other variables.

Bottom line is cooperate and don't be confrontational. You'll get nothing other than a visit to the cop shop and won't change the outcome, other than making an already unpleasant experience even worse. Complain after the incident, in writing. There's a lot of unwarranted paranoia on both sides of this issue. Chances are, you are unlikely to ever have a problem, even in Mass.

It doesn't make the tactics of a jerk cop any less obnoxious, but you can run into a jerk cop under lots of circumstances whether you're carrying or not. Ask the people in prison for trace amounts of marijuana in a car they bought a few weeks before the incident who lost the car and went to jail on top of it and the pot wasn't even theirs. Just remember, if the cop decides to be a jerk, you will NOT talk your way out of it on the side of the road.