GALLERY Shooters a little help Please

[TY43215]

I have ventured into the world of Gallery shooting. 22Lr 50' indoor Gallery.

So, I have shot 2 matches score for the second was better than the first so I figured I would practice a little and see what happened.

I have a case (maybe 1/2 now) for CCI mid range ammo that I use for practice in my AR. In my S&W 617 revolver and in the new to me Ruger semi auto, I am finding the ammunition to be erratic. One box will group real nice and the next looks like I threw a hand full at the target.

Now to the question: What is a good 22LR ammunition that will give me consistent groups and help me realize the problem is now mine and not the ammo?

I will also need a source I guess because all they have local are CCI stingers and Blazer.

I have heard good things about Lapua and may try some but I need a good practice ammo.

All help is appreciated.

 

[GTOShootr]

I used CCI Standard Velocity and Green Tag in my Model 41 for Bullseye. I've found both at Walmart.

 

[Cuz]

I have ventured into the world of Gallery shooting. 22Lr 50' indoor Gallery.

So, I have shot 2 matches score for the second was better than the first so I figured I would practice a little and see what happened.
I have a case (maybe 1/2 now) for CCI mid range ammo that I use for practice in my AR. In my S&W 617 revolver and in the new to me Ruger semi auto, I am finding the ammunition to be erratic. One box will group real nice and the next looks like I threw a hand full at the target.
Now to the question: What is a good 22LR ammunition that will give me consistent groups and help me realize the problem is now mine and not the ammo?

I will also need a source I guess because all they have local are CCI stingers and Blazer.

I have heard good things about Lapua and may try some but I need a good practice ammo.

All help is appreciated.

RGS,
It may be time to scrounge up some brass and start reloading .22s.

While I personally don't have the patience for this game, it is very popular at my club. I think our team is undefeated thru it's first 5 matches this year. I noticed that far and away it seemed like the most popular ammo they use for practice is the CCI Standard Velocity ammo. Of course, they are shooting it in some pretty fancy optically sighted custom hand forming gripped guns that would make our USPSA Open shooters envious.

I'll shoot some emails to a couple of guys from the other clubs to see what they use.

-Cuz.

 

[TY43215]

I used CCI Standard Velocity and Green Tag in my Model 41 for Bullseye. I've found both at Walmart.

The standard velocity just isn't making it. What's a Walmart?

 

[TY43215]

RGS,
It may be time to scrounge up some brass and start reloading .22s.

While I personally don't have the patience for this game, it is very popular at my club. I think our team is undefeated thru it's first 5 matches this year. I noticed that far and away it seemed like the most popular ammo they use for practice is the CCI Standard Velocity ammo. Of course, they are shooting it in some pretty fancy optically sighted custom hand forming gripped guns that would make our USPSA Open shooters envious.

I'll shoot some emails to a couple of guys from the other clubs to see what they use.

-Cuz.

Thanks, see you both tomorrow

 

[Dan S]

Gary,
Are you using the Ruger or the 617? Are you shooting slow fire? Iron sights, dot? If you're using the Smith, try using the same chamber for slow fire. I've seen one shooter shooting revolver, he used that technique. I've use Wichester T22, Federal 711 and currently SK Jagd Pistol Match. The SK is very accurate and consistant. It's not cheap, and I tend to think it's more you than the gun and ammo. Bullseye is a very mental game, trust me.
Oh yeah.....I've been shooting Bullseye leagues during the winter for a while....

 

[TY43215]

Gary,
Are you using the Ruger or the 617? Are you shooting slow fire? Iron sights, dot? If you're using the Smith, try using the same chamber for slow fire. I've seen one shooter shooting revolver, he used that technique. I've use Wichester T22, Federal 711 and currently SK Jagd Pistol Match. The SK is very accurate and consistant. It's not cheap, and I tend to think it's more you than the gun and ammo. Bullseye is a very mental game, trust me.
Oh yeah.....I've been shooting Bullseye leagues during the winter for a while....

Thanks Dan, I shot the first match with the S&W with a C MORE I put the gun together for rim fire steel but figured I would give it a try. I had the chance to get the Ruger in a partial trade for my 625 and took it. I was not getting a clear dot with the Bushnell site so I switched to an Ultra Dot Match Dot a local guy had as a spare.

With the S&W I shot a 244 with the Ruger I shot a 258. I have practiced a little more and should be a little better with the Ruger Monday night. The S&W is a bit of a problem with Rapid fire so the Ruger is better. (DA only revolver shooting is tough in this game.)

I have a small bag of Match grade ammo I will try Monday night to see if it is more consistent. I realize a good group out of the scoring rings is me, but I am getting very inconsistent results with little or no grouping at times and for no reason.

The guy I got the Ruger from told me it did not like the CCI ammo but I had so much I figured I would try it any way. I was looking for some Federal but there is none here. Looks like I will have to go off Cape for ammo or mail order.

Thanks for the ammo info I am looking for other tips too and will let you know if I get any better grouping.

 

[Thunderbolt]

Round Gun Shooter I've had very good luck with Wolf Match Target and Aguila Match with the Ruger. Although on the expensive side. For my 617 I haven't found anything yet but with its heavy trigger, I doubt I would know it if I had.

Thunderbolt

 

[Duxprep]

Generally speaking whatever goes BAM each and every time in your gun is the best ammo. At 50 feet you won't find any difference in accuracy with any ammo all the way from Tenx (most expensive) down to Eley sport (3 bucks/100)- Typically you'll want to find the lowest velocity ammo that works in your gun to help reduce wear, and to reduce muzzle flip during timed and rapid phases. Just keep experimenting to see what you like.

 

[boomerang]

It's best to find a good standard velocity round. Our range doesn't allow High velocity in the small bore range where we have our matches.

Aguilla SE and Wolf seem to be the most prevalent rounds I see at matches.

I use SK Jagd standard plus which is also Wolf.

CCI is longer than the euro cartridges and doesn't feed well in some guns.

I hear good recommendations for Aguilla SE. I've also been hearing people complaining that the Wolf that they've been buying lately has some duds and hot loads.

I was using the Eley purple box (sport) for a while for practice because it's so cheap, but it sprays sparks and is very dirty. Eley Sport is the crappiest Aguilla and is packaged as eley.

 

[TY43215]

Well, tonight I got to try some ELEY ammo. (Thanks John) Mid range match. Groups when I concentrated were tight. It made a difference as the fliers I had I could attribute to my poor trigger control on those shots.

I shot a 268 which is my best yet but the 94 on the timed fire was my best. Now that I see what can be done, it is time to start practicing.

(If my wife would only let me shoot in the cellar )

 

[Dick]

(If my wife would only let me shoot in the cellar )

The answer is . . . air pistol! I set up an air pistol range in my basement last year and it's increased my B/E scores nearly 10 points. No noise, no smoke, no need to get in the car and go to the range to practice, and after you buy the gun practically no cost. I would say about half the Bullseye shooters I know shoot AP at home. I use a Steyr LP50, which allows me to practice the sustained fire stages as well.

With regard to ammo, I absolutely disagree with the claim that there's no difference at 50' - I've done very careful testing bench testing with all my match grade .22s (and the centerfires as well) and I see clear differences in both group size and point of impact, and clear preferences with different guns.

I'm currently running CCI SV in my Walther GSP - I can get slightly better groups with CCI Pistol Match, but not better enough to justify the extra cost until I can bring my average up a few more points. Interestingly, the Walther clearly didn't like CCI Green Tag. (Also, thankfully, it didn't like Eley Tenex or I would have had to take out a home equity loan to continue shooting.) The Smith M41 I used to shoot really, really liked Remington SV but ignition was so damn undependable I finally got tired of shooting alibi strings and switched to CCI there as well.

I would say CCI SV is the most common ammo in both of the two leagues I shoot in. I'm seeing a lot more Aguila lately as well. The only thing to do is go out and get a box of as many different types as you can and go do some testing off the best rest you can find, and also consider testing at 25 yards or more, which will magnify the differences between ammo brands (and hope that the gun doesn't like Tenex).

 

[TY43215]

Thank you Dick for some great info.

As for the ammo, I agree with you that it makes a difference and I need to find what my Ruger likes and also what my S&W 617 likes. I used some ELEY last week and my score went up. I have some Lapua I plan to try later today to see how it is.

I am really enjoying this and have set some attainable goals for myself for the remainder if the year. I originally started this as a form of trigger time but it is turning into an enjoyable night out with like minded folks. It will keep me shooting when I can not get out for USPSA or IDPA as the season gets colder.

Thanks again, The Lapua showed up today so I am off to test it this afternoon.

 

[Joe G]

The S&W is a bit of a problem with Rapid fire so the Ruger is better. (DA only revolver shooting is tough in this game.)

I have seen one revolver shooter doing gallery. For timed and rapid he would shoot single action, cocking for each shot. From what I remember he did quite (very) well.

I don't remember the details about him, except that he's from Hopedale and his name is Babe something-or-other. The Hopedale team seems to be loaded with shooters of note. I believe there are shooters who hold (or held) national records or have been on US national shooting teams, and I think he's one of them. I apologize for my lousy recall. I'm sure there are other NES'ers who could fill in between my sketchy details.

- Joe
(who wishes he had a memory)

 

[Dick]

I have seen one revolver shooter doing gallery. For timed and rapid he would shoot single action, cocking for each shot. From what I remember he did quite (very) well.

I don't remember the details about him, except that he's from Hopedale and his name is Babe something-or-other. The Hopedale team seems to be loaded with shooters of note. I believe there are shooters who hold (or held) national records or have been on US national shooting teams, and I think he's one of them.

Are you thinking of Babe Magnan? I believe Babe used to shoot a revolver some time back. If that's the right "Babe," he's shooting for Leominster now along with a number of other top-level shooters. Leominster and Hopedale are both in the Worcester County League (as is Lunenburg, who I shoot for). Hopedale has good shooters to be sure, but Leominster is the team taking scalps at the moment, along with Hamilton (in Sturbridge).

 

[Admin]

The answer is . . . air pistol! I set up an air pistol range in my basement last year and it's increased my B/E scores nearly 10 points. No noise, no smoke, no need to get in the car and go to the range to practice, and after you buy the gun practically no cost. I would say about half the Bullseye shooters I know shoot AP at home.

+1 on the indoor air pistol. IMO the best thing about practicing at home like that is your arm is building muscle memory. It's dry firing with results.

 

[TY43215]

Well, it is looking like a combination of good ammunition and increased practice is the ticket.

First match was 244
second 258
third 267
fourth 268

The 267 and 268 I realized errors in my shooting but also in my mental aspects of the game.

With the help of others, I have realized I need to get my head around this game as much as I need good technique and gear.

I will be practicing on the range and looking for an air pistol for home.

If I could get air pistol suggestions as to where to look for them, it would help. Not much on Cape Cod.

 

[Dan S]

Gary,
I have a Daisy 747. One pump, accurate, inexpensive when I bought it years ago. The best thing with the air pistol is follow through. The low velocity will show the lack of follow through very quickly.

 

[Joe G]

I will be practicing on the range and looking for an air pistol for home.

If I could get air pistol suggestions as to where to look for them, it would help. Not much on Cape Cod.

Check this one out. I have one with a red dot. It's really helped my slow fire.

http://www.pyramydair.com/p/izh-46M-match-air-pistol.shtml

 

[Joe G]

Are you thinking of Babe Magnan? I believe Babe used to shoot a revolver some time back. If that's the right "Babe," he's shooting for Leominster now along with a number of other top-level shooters. Leominster and Hopedale are both in the Worcester County League (as is Lunenburg, who I shoot for). Hopedale has good shooters to be sure, but Leominster is the team taking scalps at the moment, along with Hamilton (in Sturbridge).

That's him. Hopedale also shoots in my league, Maspenock.

I just remember watching his rapid fire and being amazed at how smooth he was thumbing back the hammer for each shot in rapid fire.

 

[Dick]

If I could get air pistol suggestions as to where to look for them, it would help. Not much on Cape Cod.

IMHO, the center of the quality air pistol universe is Scott Pilkington and his company, Pilkington Competition Equipment in Tennessee. Check out their web site at www.pilkguns.com and also visit their BB - frequented mostly by serious Olympic-type shooters from all over the world - at www.targettalk.org.

Thankfully, mail order is no problem with air guns, and Pilkington has the goods, along with great service. If you're primarily interested in air pistol to improve your bullseye score, take a look at the Steyr LP50. Most APs are single shot, but the Steyr is a repeater that'll allow you to practice the sustained fire stages as well. I've had mine for a bit over a year now and it has performed flawlessly. The inherent accuracy of a world-class AP like the Steyr is scary - far better than even the best traditional pistol.

 

[Len-2A Training]

The AG doesn't want airguns shipped into MA either.

Check out their sting operation news releases. Some were for shipping airguns into MA (as well as knives, OC, etc.).

 

[Dick]

The AG doesn't want airguns shipped into MA either.

Check out their sting operation news releases. Some were for shipping airguns into MA (as well as knives, OC, etc.).

Thanks for noting that, Len. The only news release I was able to find related to this issue concerned mail-order sales of "look-alike" airguns to minors, which is illegal ("look-alike" or not) under MA law regardless of whether the sale is mail-order or FTF retail. If that's what the issue is (and that's more of a question, as I recognize you follow these things more closely than I) then I don't think there should be any concern about an adult purchasing, or a vendor selling to that adult, an airgun over the internet. To the best of my admittedly imperfect knowledge, the AG is not actively trying to restrict internet sales of air pistols - which as far as I understand are not defined as firearms under MA or federal law - to adults.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Dick, I think that Riley did indeed get some to "cease and desist" shipping ANY airguns into MA. Don't have time to look it up (and AG site was totally re-done so any links I had are now dead-end) right now.

AG's position . . . "How do we know that the person receiving the package is an adult?" Thus only FTF retail sales was the position he took so an ID could be checked (sorta same lame excuse as no ammo/mags sales). WE all know that a copy of an LTC or DL should prove it and they can even restrict package delivery to named party only . . . AG ignored those "solutions" intentionally.

 

[TY43215]

Dick, I think that Riley did indeed get some to "cease and desist" shipping ANY airguns into MA. Don't have time to look it up (and AG site was totally re-done so any links I had are now dead-end) right now.

AG's position . . . "How do we know that the person receiving the package is an adult?" Thus only FTF retail sales was the position he took so an ID could be checked (sorta same lame excuse as no ammo/mags sales). WE all know that a copy of an LTC or DL should prove it and they can even restrict package delivery to named party only . . . AG ignored those "solutions" intentionally.

Well Len, to use one of your favorite Smilies

 

[Twoxtwo]

GALLERY Shooters a little help Pleas

I shoot 50' indoor bullseye 2-3 times a week. I shoot both red dot with a 1982 S&W 41 and iron sights with a mid 70's Colt Match Target Woodsman. After playing around with a mess of different ammunitions I have settled on using CCI sub-sonic for both practice and matches. When I go to practice I change my pace and shoot 3 shot groups loading only 3 in the clip...shoot the group, rest, load etc. I have found that doing this I am able to keep both guns tweeked and when I go to shoot a match I feel confident and don't have to fuss with the gun before I shoot the match. It is surprising how practicing like this you have suddenly spent an hour of practice time but you have only burned up one box of ammo. I have found my scores have steadily improved. For what ever it is worth! Most of all, however you do it .....have fun ....2x2

 

[TY43215]

I shoot 50' indoor bullseye 2-3 times a week. I shoot both red dot with a 1982 S&W 41 and iron sights with a mid 70's Colt Match Target Woodsman. After playing around with a mess of different ammunitions I have settled on using CCI sub-sonic for both practice and matches. When I go to practice I change my pace and shoot 3 shot groups loading only 3 in the clip...shoot the group, rest, load etc. I have found that doing this I am able to keep both guns tweeked and when I go to shoot a match I feel confident and don't have to fuss with the gun before I shoot the match. It is surprising how practicing like this you have suddenly spent an hour of practice time but you have only burned up one box of ammo. I have found my scores have steadily improved. For what ever it is worth! Most of all, however you do it .....have fun ....2x2

Thanks, I will try the practice you outlined and see what happens.