Florida to Mass Rifle/Shotgun transfer question

[AMERICANS FIRST]

I apologize if this has been covered already but really could not find any info on this particular situation.

My father in law has a rifle and a shotgun in Florida. His health is not good and he will be moving to an assisted living location in the next couple of weeks. He cannot take them with him and wants to transfer the ownership of them over to me. How do I go about getting them from Florida to Mass legally and have them transferred?

In Florida you don't need a license to get them and I have my LTC here in Mass. They are Mass Compliant. He is not going to be able to physically ship them due to his health so I will need to go down and help with shipping them back.

What are the steps and cost I will need to take to be able to ship them back to me in Mass, and Transfer ownership to me? Also, Do they need to ship to an FFL in my area or can them come to my address? I would think it would be less of a hassle to have it go to an FFL so I can have them conduct the transfer too yes? Or can that be done at an FFL in Florida?

THanks in advance.

 

[Marty McFly]

Ffl to ffl.

 

[whacko]

I apologize if this has been covered already but really could not find any info on this particular situation.

My father in law has a rifle and a shotgun in Florida. His health is not good and he will be moving to an assisted living location in the next couple of weeks. He cannot take them with him and wants to transfer the ownership of them over to me. How do I go about getting them from Florida to Mass legally and have them transferred?

In Florida you don't need a license to get them and I have my LTC here in Mass. They are Mass Compliant. He is not going to be able to physically ship them due to his health so I will need to go down and help with shipping them back.

What are the steps and cost I will need to take to be able to ship them back to me in Mass, and Transfer ownership to me? Also, Do they need to ship to an FFL in my area or can them come to my address? I would think it would be less of a hassle to have it go to an FFL so I can have them conduct the transfer too yes? Or can that be done at an FFL in Florida?

THanks in advance.

Long guns if you are able to possess legally in the state your taking possession and the state you legally reside in the Florida ffl can legally do the transfer..... then FOPA your way back to mass. Whether you can get a Florida FFL to do the transfer is a other story.

Your absolute safest bet.....if your going to Florida anyway......call an ffl here in mass to check if they will do the transfer for you. Go to Florida and you ship them to the ffl in mass......take possession in mass when you get back. This way you avoid the potential of an issue in new York or new jersey on the road back.

 

[whacko]

Ffl to ffl.

Legally not necessary with a long gun but makes sense in this case due to the long drive back through "hostile territory" of NY and NJ.

 

[Marty McFly]

Legally not necessary with a long gun but makes sense in this case due to the long drive back through "hostile territory" of NY and NJ.

Exactly. Just seems like a better safe than sorry situation.

 

[AMERICANS FIRST]

So I would be flying down to Florida to help him out with moving into the new place etc.. then plan on flying back not driving. Just want to be able to get them back to Mass and transfer them into my name.

 

[whacko]

So I would be flying down to Florida to help him out with moving into the new place etc.. then plan on flying back not driving. Just want to be able to get them back to Mass and transfer them into my name.

If you are flying down do what said. Pre arrange with a mass ffl to ship to. In Florida ship the ling guns to the mass ffl. Pick up and do the transfer in mass when you get back.

 

[cathouse01]

From the ATF:

“Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an individual who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides. Generally, for a person to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must be shipped to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) within the recipient’s State of residence. He or she may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a NICS background check.”

So do what @whacko said.

 

[AMERICANS FIRST]

Perfect. Thank you everyone appreciate it. So when I am in Florida I can ship it USPS, UPS etc as long as I follow the packaging instructions and fill out proper forms to the FFL in Mass or do I need to ship it from an FFL in Florida to an FFL in Mass? Sorry for all the questions, just never have done this before.

 

[Marty McFly]

Ffl in fla to ffl in ma. And get insurance on them

 

[mac1911]

Perfect. Thank you everyone appreciate it. So when I am in Florida I can ship it USPS, UPS etc as long as I follow the packaging instructions and fill out proper forms to the FFL in Mass or do I need to ship it from an FFL in Florida to an FFL in Mass? Sorry for all the questions, just never have done this before.

I think the issue is you cant "transfer" ownership of the rifles from FIL to You Then ship them.
Find A FFL who will receive the items for you. You and your father in law go to FFL in FL to sdhip to your FFL.
Call around for prices on shipping. Shipping a firearm can get expensive.
Maybe go to FL go to local FL FFL and have them tranfered to you. Then transport them back by plain ? Good excuse to buy some nice cases

 

[cathouse01]

If you can easily find a cooperative FFL in Florida, FFL to FFL as @dgrantdoherty said would be the easiest (but would probably cost a bit more). There is nothing to prevent you from shipping them yourself on behalf of your father-in-law direct to your MA FFL.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Perfect. Thank you everyone appreciate it. So when I am in Florida I can ship it USPS, UPS etc as long as I follow the packaging instructions and fill out proper forms to the FFL in Mass or do I need to ship it from an FFL in Florida to an FFL in Mass? Sorry for all the questions, just never have done this before.

They are legal for you to possess in Massachusetts (your state of residence) and you are going to be in Florida so when you are in Florida transfer them at an FFL, put them in a case, and fly home with them. Do an FA10 it and you are done.

FEDERAL FIREARMS LAWS

Bob

 

[CrackPot]

I would break this down into a couple separate topics. transfer is one. possession is another. they are not necessarily related. Different choices have different costs and a lot of people have given you some very expensive choices.

Lets deal with ownership. They are owned by your FiL in FL. You can take possession without a change of ownership. It is lawful to loan guns to another person. The only limitation relevant for you is that because it is across state lines, the loan is limited to "sporting purposes". So no self defense, carry, etc. You can have them on indefinite loan. They can pass to you when he passes and no FFL is required for interstate inheritance. You don't need to "register" them in MA until ownership changes. Just borrowing them, they can sit in your safe, go to the range, etc, forever.

If you want to change ownership now you have 2 options and variants on them

1. FFL in FL transfers to you
2. FFL in MA transfers to you

Remember, we are just talking ownership here, not yet physical possession. Because they are long guns, the FL FFL can take the in from your FiL and do a 4473 to you even as a MA resident. The other choice is to have a MA FFL do the transfer. The variants on (2) are how the MA FFL gets the guns to do the transfer. I can think of no less than 3 variants of (2) but these mostly come to the topic of possession.

So possession

1. Take to FL FFL and have him take from your FiL
   1. FL FFL ships to MA FFL
   2. FL FFL transfers to you
      1. You ship to yourself (lawful option)
      2. You ship to MA FFL (ok, an option, but silly)
      3. You bring home yourself
2. Take guns and bring them to MA yourself. Deal with airlines and bring as checked luggage. REALLY easy and depending on how you fly may had no cost (I know, some airlines charge for checked bags these days)

So first decide if you are taking ownership or not. Then decide how to move the guns to MA. Involving two FFLs will be expensive. Shipping yourself will be expensive since that usually means accelerated shipping (FFLs can use ground and you have to use priority/express)

Personally I would stick them in a case, check them as luggage and fly home. That is the only reasonable way to move them from FL to MA. The only choice then is do you use a FL FFL to transfer ownership or just borrow them and inherit. Again, I would go the borrow route since then the state of MA does not get to know anything until you inherit.

 

[appraiser]

You can buy a long arm (rifle/shotgun) outside of your home state.
Find a FFL here in FL, do the transfer, eFA-10 them within 7(?) days of them arriving in MA

There is no reason you can not bring them on the plane back with you as checked luggage in a locked case, declaring them at the time of check in ( read the TSA website for packing requirements)

What part of FL?

 

[cathouse01]

[

They are legal for you to possess in Massachusetts (your state of residence) and you are going to be in Florida so when you are in Florida transfer them at an FFL, put them in a case, and fly home with them. Do an FA10 it and you are done.

FEDERAL FIREARMS LAWS

Bob

My understanding is that a local Florida FFL can not transfer them to an out of sate resident. According to the ATF "a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s business premises is located in an over–the–counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.” Emphasis added. You can only BUY a gun from an out of state FFL. They can’t facilitate a face-to-face transfer to an out of state resident from a local resident (see my post #8).

I think you need to ship to a MA FFL and do the transfer there.

 

[appraiser]

Now, if you want to be morbid, and I will apologize in advance for this post, bring them back to MA, you have them as a loan for legitimate sporting purposes, and have him leave them to you as a specific bequest in his will, and when the time comes, they will transfer to you legally, no FFL required, you may have to eFA-10 them but that is all.

Sorry about Dad's health, unfortunately I see that on a weekly basis here with my older neighbors. They can no longer live on their own and have to go to a place that fits their needs.

 

[CrackPot]

[


My understanding is that a local Florida FFL can not transfer them to an out of sate resident. According to the ATF "a licensee may sell a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s business premises is located in an over–the–counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.” Emphasis added. You can only BUY a gun from an out of state FFL. They can’t facilitate a face-to-face transfer to an out of state resident from a local resident (see my post #8).

I think you need to ship to a MA FFL and do the transfer there.

You are making a distinction that does not exist. All transactions with a FFL are identical. They take possession and log the gun into their books. Whether the gun comes from a distributor or a private party, the logging in is identical. You then do a 4473 and they do a background check and transfer the gun. The only difference is there is a check box on the 4473 "facilitating a private party transfer". But the rules are all the same. YES, you can use a FL FFL to transfer ownership.

 

[Woodstock]

Maybe LenS will check in with his solid advice, but you can certainly fly home with them as checked baggage in a locked, approved case. Once you're here, I think you can EFA them, leaving the seller's name blank, but I could be wrong. GOAL would also know the right answers.

 

[AHM]

Now, if you want to be morbid, and I will apologize in advance for this post, bring them back to MA, you have them as a loan for legitimate sporting purposes, and have him leave them to you as a specific bequest in his will, and when the time comes, they will transfer to you legally, no FFL required, ...

That's one way to inherit guns, and nearly the only reliable way.

An executor of a valid will (which does not mention OP) saying,
"here OP, take the guns; FIL wanted you to have them"
does not constitute "inheritance".

I can think of three other ways that ought to be legit,
but two depend upon the whim of an executor or administrator
dividing up the estate to actual heirs, and I bet the third doesn't even apply.
So they're all bad ideas.

... you may will have to eFA-10 them but that is all.

FTFY.

 

[AHM]

Maybe LenS will check in with his solid advice, ...

Efforting...

@Len-2A Training

 

[cathouse01]

You are making a distinction that does not exist. All transactions with a FFL are identical. They take possession and log the gun into their books. Whether the gun comes from a distributor or a private party, the logging in is identical. You then do a 4473 and they do a background check and transfer the gun. The only difference is there is a check box on the 4473 "facilitating a private party transfer". But the rules are all the same. YES, you can use a FL FFL to transfer ownership.

I was basing my interpretation on the ATFs specific wording saying that an FFL could only sell a gun over-the-counter to an out-of-state purchaser and my understanding that facilitating a transfer was not a sale. But being in the actual business I will defer to your reading of the rules.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Best way is take FIL and guns to FL FFL and do the transfer there. Then your option is to ask FL FFL to ship them to you in MA or take them as luggage (TSA and airline rules - you need to review and comply) in locked hard case luggage on the plane. Do eFA-10 as registration upon return, no info on source of guns.

BATFE says that ONLY the owner (or FFL) can ship guns to themselves. However, UPS/FedEx rules don't allow shipments of guns unless there is an FFL involved at one end or the other. You can ship them to yourself if you are the current owner via USPO ground.

Crackpot has it basically correct, with one correction . . . long guns can be shipped ground (weight and distance charges) via UPS/FedEx/USPO. Only handguns have to go "expedited" at huge cost (UPS/FedEx only unless the shipper is an dealer FFL).

 

[cathouse01]

Just to follow up on the info from them's that know and correct my own misinterpretation. I finally found the official ATF Procedure 2017-1 Recordkeeping and Background Check Procedure for Facilitation of Private Party Firearms Transfers. It says that out-of-state private party transfers only need to comply with the interstate controls for firearms transfers, which includes that the firearm must be legal for the person receiving it to own it in their state of residence. It just shows you have to go directly to the ATF's written procedures and not even attempt to interpret things based on what you think is a logical reading of the rules.

What gets me is the ridiculous number of codes and regulations surrounding guns. This one simple procedure calls out three codes and eight regulations. That’s 11 different “laws” covering the simple transfer of a gun from one non-prohibited person to another. Because of this type of excess, we law-abiding citizens spend an amazing amount of time and effort trying to follow the “letter of the law”; while a gang-banger just pops down to the corner to get his Glock with a happy stick.

I still wonder what the hell their interpretation of “infringed” is.