First Reloading Brain-Fart

[Dirtypacman]

So I had not sat down at the station for at least a couple months. I last left it with my .38 setup ready to crank. I thought I was being smart by double checking all my data, well I was being smart until I looked at the wrong diameter bullet. Changing my powder drop to accomodate the proper charge. Thinking oh it must have just got out of sync since I have not used it in a while. I get through about 60 rounds checking each 5th or 6th one in line to assure its working right. Then just for the heck of it I decide to refer one more time with my manual and come to find out I was dropping the correct charge from the very beginning. Needless to say I spent the next 1/2 hour or so pulling all the ammo apart and starting fresh. Thank god for the bullet puller or I would have had a mess of ammo not worth a dam to me (and unsafe at that).

Just a warning for those reloaders always double and triple check your data. Always best to never assume as it will cause you a lose of time, money or worse.

After working through the initial Brain Fart I was back in action and boy do I love reloading. Nothing more satisfying then feeding your own.

 

[The Goose]

A very good post with a very good reminder. Thanks.

 

[Jay G]

Total noob question here. For .38 special, if it were overcharged, not double or anything but just a little over, would it be safe to fire in a .357 Magnum-chambered firearm?

I know exactly ZERO about reloading, so be gentle...

 

[doobie]

You'll also find that if you look at different reloading manuals sometimes you'll find completely different sets of reloading guidelines.

If you are beginning I'd recommend triple, quadruple checking your loads. TRYING out them after maybe loading 20 and making sure they work well rather than loading 100 rounds and then finding after the first one something was way off.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Total noob question here. For .38 special, if it were overcharged, not double or anything but just a little over, would it be safe to fire in a .357 Magnum-chambered firearm?

I know exactly ZERO about reloading, so be gentle...

Maybe.

If it were a little overcharged a .357 could handle it if the brass would hold up. The first ".357 Magnum" was really the S&W .38/44 - a .38 SPL revolver built on the .44 (N) frame. Winchester even made special ammo for it that was marked "For .38/44 revolvers only". Unfortunately, the high pressure ammo would still fit in any .38 Special - even the crappy ones.

A lot of people tried it in guns that couldn't handle it, and a bunch of them blew up. This prompted S&W to lengthen the case (so it wouldn't fit in a .38) and rename it the .357 Magnum.

I still wouldn't shoot an overcharged .38 in a .357 though. The gun may be able to handle it but the brass may not. If a case ruptures, you're in trouble.

 

[Jay G]

See, that's why I *asked*, rather than *tried*...

Is there really that much difference between .38 special brass and .357 Magnum brass? Honest question - I've got piles of both, and other than the overall length it doesn't look any different to me...

Anyways, back on topic, it just reinforces that reloading is something that bears much attention...

 

[EddieCoyle]

Is there really that much difference between .38 special brass and .357 Magnum brass?

Yes.

The SAAMI max pressure for a .38 Special is 17,000 PSI. So all .38 Special brass has to do is to hold up to 17,000 PSI. The SAAMI max for .357 is 35,000 PSI.

Will .38 Special brass fail at .357 Mag pressures? Well, it could meet specs and fail at half that pressure.

 

[Dirtypacman]

I hope to finish a batch this weekend of 100-200 just to have on hand. I did do a test run on Monday with 5 rounds to assure I was getting proper results. I was very pleased. Still being relatively new it was actually not bad to have this issue come up and know I ended up being smart enough to catch it. That being said I will need to continue to double and triple check from the very start so I never waste as much time in the future.

 

[RKG]

Maybe.

If it were a little overcharged a .357 could handle it if the brass would hold up. The first ".357 Magnum" was really the S&W .38/44 - a .38 SPL revolver built on the .44 (N) frame. Winchester even made special ammo for it that was marked "For .38/44 revolvers only". Unfortunately, the high pressure ammo would still fit in any .38 Special - even the crappy ones.

A lot of people tried it in guns that couldn't handle it, and a bunch of them blew up. This prompted S&W to lengthen the case (so it wouldn't fit in a .38) and rename it the .357 Magnum.

I still wouldn't shoot an overcharged .38 in a .357 though. The gun may be able to handle it but the brass may not. If a case ruptures, you're in trouble.

I endorse everything said by Brother Coyle, and add:

The increase in peak pressure as a function of increase in powder charge is not linear. It depends significantly on the powder characteristics, the volume of the case (absolute), the volume of the case (free, based on intended charge) and a number of other factors. In some cases, lowering a powder charge can increase pressure.

Propellant manufacturers engage in controlled condition testing and generally make their results available in loading manuals, which are worth every dollar you spend on them.

The simple (but quite useless) answer to your question as posted is this:

Working PP in a .38 Spl is on the order of 15K cup. If your overcharge results in PP in the range of 16K-25K cup, the .357 revolver will take it and probably so will the brass (assuming relatively new), though extraction may become an interesting exercise. Above about 25K cup, the revolver will hold but the brass will fail, most likely in the web. (Bad news.)

 

[RKG]

Yes.

The SAAMI max pressure for a .38 Special is 17,000 PSI. So all .38 Special brass has to do is to hold up to 17,000 PSI. The SAAMI max for .357 is 35,000 PSI.

Will .38 Special brass fail at .357 Mag pressures? Well, it could meet specs and fail at half that pressure.

Er, I'm not sure this explanation gives adequate consideration to the different between working strength and breaking strength. I'd be surprised if the manufacturers of .38 Spl. brass, intended for a working strength of 17K cup, did not design in at least a 2-1 safety factor. Which means, in theory, that 95% of the brass would withstand 34K cup 95% of the time.

But the point is: you don't want to be the 5%.

 

[EddieCoyle]

But the point is: you don't want to be the 5%.

That's the point I was trying to convey.

If you sort your brass and use only modern brass of known-good quality, you'll probably never have a problem. For example, I'm pretty sure you could load new Starline +P .38 brass to .357 levels.

However, if you use mixed range brass, and happen to get an old balloon head case, you can be in big trouble - even at slightly over 17K.