FID -to- LTC-B , how difficult ?

[MA_Sports]

Hello, noobie here. Great site.

My situation .. just finishing up my basic hunter education courses next week. I do not have any licenses yet. Want a firearm for property and self defense.

Should I apply for the FID card or apply directly for the LTC-B ??

And if I decide on the FID option for now, how difficult is it to go from an FID card to a LTC-B card ?

Local Dedham PD. Thanks for any input.

 

[PaulD]

Apply for an LTC-A unrestricted directly.

There's no reason to be limited to an LTC-B.

 

[appraiser]

Agreed a LTC A or nothing, even a restricted A is better than a unrestricted B.

FID's are a last resort to be used only if the COP won't issue a LTC.

 

[OLAK]

Why not apply for LTC A for ALP ? Then you will be covered for whatever you want(as long as it's mass legal). If Dedham doesn't issue
class A I'd still apply for it and let them downgrade to class B.

 

[MA_Sports]

How would a noob like me possibly get a LTC-A in Dedham ?? Or am I missing something ..

 

[appraiser]

how? Some COP's believe in your God given right to keep and bear arms.

Around here we call those "Green" towns.

No statutory disqualifiers, no skeletons in the closet that would make "suitability" an issue, complete the application honestly, take the course... why SHOULDN'T you have a LTC A ?

Here is the underlying problem, people are willing to have some tin badged dictator take away their rights without doing something about it.

Edit: I see Dedham is a RED town, which means you are screwed unless you decide you want to fight for your rights. How bad do you want your rights? A restricted LTC A is PROBABLY what you'd get, which is better than a FID or LTC B.

If you are willing to drop some money on a consultation, I'd suggest you contact one of the members here who practice law with a specialty in chapter 140 and related gun laws. Cross X is one of the people you should send a PM to, and there are others whose name escapes me right now, but are equally qualified to guide you along.

 

[MA_Sports]

Thank you, I just felt that most authorities would give a hard time to those in seek of such a license. I agree with you all though, why shouldn't I get this license in this nation ..

Alright, I will apply for LTC-A, I just hope that everything goes smooth, but in MA that could be tricky.

 

[appraiser]

it's only in RED towns that it is tricky. There are many towns where the COP will issue a unrestricted LTC A.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8703

 

[MA_Sports]

Awww, Dedham is a RED town.

 

[atmay]

Even if you don't think your COP will issue you a LTC-A/ALP, apply for that, and not directly for the B. Worst that happens is they get your A/ALP application, say hell no, and give you a restricted class-A, or maybe a class-B. Best that happens, they say yeah sure, and you get yourself a class A/ALP.

There isn't any penalty for applying for "too much" license.

 

[MA_Sports]

^ ok, but can they reject an application for LTC-A and not give a substitute ? a rejected application stays on record ?

no criminal history here.

 

[appraiser]

trust us, we're not like the others.

Apply for the LTC A, you'll end up with something, either a LTC A restricted, which will let you buy, keep and defend your home with high capacity (pre-ban magazined) weapons, where with a FID you are limited to a shotgun/low capacity rifle/pepper spray, or a LTC B which limits you to low capacity handguns and rifles/shotguns.

If you get denied, you can appeal a denial to a Judge. A flat out denial is unheard of unless you are Federally or otherwise disqualified, or you are deemed an unsuitable person. They would rather issue a neutered license and say your rights have not been violated, than risk the NRA or GOAL suing them on your behalf.

So apply for the A, get what you can from Dedham, then before your next renewal move the eff out of there to a green town, or even better a Free State!

 

[MA_Sports]

Thanks so much to all, I feel that I came to the right place to ask and learn, Great work and dedication by all, keep it up, this is a Great resource, awesome.

 

[Horrible]

Go for the LTC-A. Same paperwork and hassle as the FID and the LTC-B. You don't have anything to lose.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Thank you, I just felt that most authorities would give a hard time to those in seek of such a license. I agree with you all though, why shouldn't I get this license in this nation ..

My reply isn't meant to offend, but to try to open your (and other readers') eyes.

- If you go in with a defeatist attitude, you WILL be defeated!

- COPs that don't trust their serfs with guns will still usually give you a LTC-A IFF you ask for it! Only a handful of towns change your application to a LTC-B in the mistaken belief that somehow this "protects" them (COP). [The PD actually incurs NO liability for issuing any licenses within the rules laid down by MGLs.]

- The cost and background check is identical for LTC (A or B) and FID. FID is "must issue" but I've known of a few towns that give a hard time to folks on FIDs by dragging the process out interminably before finally issuing it.

- Dedham does issue LTC-As.

- As stated above, LTC-A restricted trumps any LTC-B, any day of the week.

If you have nothing in your background to DQ you or raise "suitability" issues, go for the LTC-A (ask for unrestricted) and hold your head high when you do so. You'll be surprised what a positive attitude can do for you!

- There is a sticky thread here that runs down HOW to apply for a LTC, read it and follow the good advice there and you should be fine.

Good luck.

 

[Lauria]

And don't forget to join GOAL!! If you're unhappy with the way your rights are being trampled, then you should at the very least support an organization fighting for you.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

I have met a few people from Dedham who have LTCA-ALP, so it is doable, I just dont know what they had to do to get it.

 

[MA_Sports]

Very nice to hear, I will let y'all know what happens when it does.

 

[stencil]

If your town's CLEO hates and fears you, and downgrades your requested Class A -
ALP to Class B, you're no worse off. But if you apply for, and are granted, a Class B license, and then in the morning you find that the CLEO has turned into a pool of melted butter at the base of your palm tree, then how do you justify an appeal to his successor for an upgrade?
Request what you're legally entitled to, no more, no less.
.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

LTC Bs are extremely rare.

LTC-B's were a non-solution to a non-problem, and even most red police departments seem to recognize this.

 

[PaulD]

LTC-B's were a non-solution to a non-problem, and even most red police departments seem to recognize this.

Rob or Jesse, could one of you clear up a point of confusion I had about an LTC-B? Does an LTC-B definitely allow a holder to own a large capacity rifle? Many people have said it does but reading this:

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-131.htm

It sure doesn't seem that it does.

Thanks.

 

[vellnueve]

YES, it does

MA law defines "firearm" to be a handgun. Read the entire LTC-B section. It specifically allows large capacity rifles and feeding devices.

 

[drgrant]

Awww, Dedham is a RED town.

Even in red towns you can probably still get a restricted-A in many of them.

A restricted-A is still a million times better than an FID... I wouldn't let that
problem get you down.

The training cert, etc, ends up costing about the same, and the app fee is
the same for an FID vs an LTC, anyways.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

LTC-B's were a non-solution to a non-problem, and even most red police departments seem to recognize this.

There are still a few B-rammer towns out there, though. Peabody is
one, as well as Canton? Years ago I heard of B-ramming in Winchendon, but I
think they're just restricted-A now.

Fitchburg may ultimately become one, if that twit Demoura gets his way. Hopefully we can get enough political napalm to stop it.

The only functional purpose of the LTC-B is to piss off the applicant into not applying or not renewing. Otherwise it serves no legitimate purpose. (Well, it goes without saying the whole system is illegitimate in the eyes of the constitution, but that's another story.... )

-Mike

 

[JustEric]

I searched the red/green town thread a while back for Dedham, and everyone in that thread had said they had no issues getting an LTC-A (unrestricted/ALP, IIRC) in Dedham. I also read that the person that maintains the list considers even a single first-time applicant with a clean record who gets denied reason to make the town red.

Assuming Dedham is red for, say, one person under those circumstances, we have no idea why they were denied. We'll never know the whole story, obviously. He/she could have said something insanely stupid during the interview process that made the chief think twice, or he/she could have not been completely honest in reporting their situation/experience to the member that maintains the list (i.e. said they had a clean background, but didn't mention the RO from five years ago). Or hell, the form could have been filled out wrong...there are many places where the incorrect info can disqualify you, whereas the correct info may not have...question 10 sticks out in my mind as one of those items.

FWIW, the officer that processed by permit application told me that the chief rarely, if ever, denies a permit when the BG check comes back clean, and restrictions are even rarer. He seemed to suggest that the chief had the right attitude about issuing permits. I should know where I stand on my permit sometime this week, although I have it on good authority that it's been approved (first-time applicant with no priors here; not even so much as a speeding ticket), I just don't know if it'll have any restriction.

 

[drgrant]

Assuming Dedham is red for, say, one person under those circumstances, we have no idea why they were denied. We'll never know the whole story, obviously. He/she could have said something insanely stupid during the interview process that made the chief think twice, or he/she could have not been completely honest in reporting their situation/experience to the member that maintains the list (i.e. said they had a clean background, but didn't mention the RO from five years ago). Or hell, the form could have been filled out wrong...there are many places where the incorrect info can disqualify you, whereas the correct info may not have...question 10 sticks out in my mind as one of those items.

You're reading too far into it. You can find out whether a town is red, yellow, or green, without even submitting an application. Most of these towns here, that are red, have a "rep" for it, they're not red because of statutory denials. It doesn't get much simpler than:

"The chief doesn't give out ALP at all"
"The chief doesn't give out LTC-As at all for first time applicants"

etc, etc, etc. This has nothing to do with statutory denials.

We had a guy here that said he got an A/None in Lowell or Lawrence (I forget). That said, we know that most people will not get that when walking into either PD, regardless of who they are.

Obviously, results vary. It's not a be all or end all. Once in awhile a town "goes green" too when the chief is punted out, but that's pretty rare.

-Mike