FA-10 forms for previously owned guns

[bob.stevens]

What year did the FA-10 form start to be required?

Hypothetically, if someone has some guns that were that were purchased in Massachusetts 35 years ago by a parent (just a federal slip was filled out by the dealer, if I recall) and then given to a son 30 years ago, is the son in compliance FA-10 wise?

Assume that the son is properly licensed in Massachusetts for all the guns.

Does a statute of limitations apply to the FA-10 reporting requirements?

I tried to search through postings for a similar scenario, but found none.

 

[drgrant]

There is no compulsory registration in MA. FA 10s are for reporting the "act" of acquiring or transferring a firearm. That is the only compulsory part of the law. If the guns are not in the CHSB database it doesn't mean that a person is not in compliance- EG, there is no criminal offense for simply having an "unregistered" firearm in MA because there are numerous situations (allowed by law) where guns may not be in the system. Failure to report a transfer is an offense, but I am unsure if it was an offense 30 years ago or not. I wouldn't worry about it, since, IIRC (I could be wrong on this) but the statute of limitations for MA firearm law violations is 6 years, and the case you mentioned is, well, a little beyond that....

-Mike

 

[theGringo]

I did not know about the statute of limitations ... whew!

 

[Len-2A Training]

All I can add to Mike's reply is that 35 yrs ago when I bought my first gun, the dealers used FA-10 forms. FTF back then used the "blue card".

CHSB destroyed all records prior to 1986 (IIRC) for dealer transactions and prior to 10/21/1998 for FTF transactions . . . so they would have no record of this event even if they did file a blue card!

Don't worry, be happy!

 

[bostonasphalt2]

There is no compulsory registration in MA. FA 10s are for reporting the "act" of acquiring or transferring a firearm. That is the only compulsory part of the law. If the guns are not in the CHSB database it doesn't mean that a person is not in compliance- EG, there is no criminal offense for simply having an "unregistered" firearm in MA because there are numerous situations (allowed by law) where guns may not be in the system. Failure to report a transfer is an offense, but I am unsure if it was an offense 30 years ago or not. I wouldn't worry about it, since, IIRC (I could be wrong on this) but the statute of limitations for MA firearm law violations is 6 years, and the case you mentioned is, well, a little beyond that....

-Mike

true regarding the "registering transfers" but anything that has the buyers address and information and all the info, including serial number fo the gun, doesn't pass the "this isn't a registration" sniff test with me...

 

[drgrant]

true regarding the "registering transfers" but anything that has the buyers address and information and all the info, including serial number fo the gun, doesn't pass the "this isn't a registration" sniff test with me...

It's still de-facto "registration" yes, but that's not what I was getting at.

The point I was trying to make is that "having your guns registered" in MA is not a "hard" requirement. It's nothing that needs to be "maintained". When I speak of compulsory registration I mean systems like the one that existed (not sure if it still does or not, but I know Angel Shamaya got bagged for it years ago) in Michigan where if the PD inventories one of your handguns (for whatever reason) and it turns up as being unregistered, that "state of existence" eg, possessing an unregistered handgun, is a crime. This isn't the case at all in MA, and thus, MA does not have what I call "compulsory registration". There is no force of law requiring registration, just reporting of transfers and acquisitions of firearms by MA residents as outlined in 128A/B.

-Mike

 

[bob.stevens]

Thanks, this is good information.

Interesting that the FA-10 form has a check box where you can select "registration". Does this mean that you are voluntarily registering the gun? Also interesting is that the CHSB website has an option where you can request a listing of what is "registered" under your name. I guess the implication is that they want you to voluntarily keep it up to date.

 

[drgrant]

Thanks, this is good information.

Interesting that the FA-10 form has a check box where you can select "registration". Does this mean that you are voluntarily registering the gun?

That checkbox is typically only used for a few purposes, eg:

-You're building a firearm. (when the gun is capable of firing a shot it hast o be registered, IIRC).

-You're bringing a gun into the state from out of state (eg, like a rifle you bought in NH or whatever), or you have a C+R and you just had a gun shipped to you

All of these are consided "acquisitions" under the law and must be reported.

When an FA 10 is not required:

-You're not actually owning a gun- eg, you are borrowing a gun from someone. No FA 10 is required if ownership doesn't change hands.

-You're moving into the state and you haven't taken residency yet- When you take residency no registration of any firearms is required. You could move into MA with 100 guns and not be legally obligated to register a single one of them. (They can't say its an acquisition or a transfer because you already owned the guns when you moved into the state. ) Once you are a resident of MA then the rules change and then anything you bring in after that point must be FA-10ed.

Also interesting is that the CHSB website has an option where you can request a listing of what is "registered" under your name. I guess the implication is that they want you to voluntarily keep it up to date.

Yes, it has that appearance, but that's not what the law actually says. That "feature" is more for curiosity than anything else, as it's a pain in the ass to get that report (I think you have to notarize the form), and pay some kind of a fee. Worse yet, the report is not accurate. If you have sold guns they will still be on the report as there is no way to remove them from your name, forever. Now, if you've bought and sold guns those guns might also have other people's names on them, as well... but this is a graphic illustration of how dumb and poor the database is. What's really fun is finding an older gentleman who has been a gun owner forever, and looking at his report.... 75% of what he owns or has ever owned likely will not be in the report!

-Mike

 

[Ol Doc]

When an FA 10 is not required:
You're moving into the state and you haven't taken residency yet- When you take residency no registration of any firearms is required. You could move into MA with 100 guns and not be legally obligated to register a single one of them. (They can't say its an acquisition or a transfer because you already owned the guns when you moved into the state. ) Once you are a resident of MA then the rules change and then anything you bring in after that point must be FA-10ed.

-Mike

This is something I did not know. I thought that when you moved into the state and brought in guns, you had to submit FA10's on them. Is there any case law/precedent to support this?

 

[drgrant]

This is something I did not know. I thought that when you moved into the state and brought in guns, you had to submit FA10's on them. Is there any case law/precedent to support this?

As far as I know there is no actual case law. The commonly accepted interpretation is based on deductive reasoning applied to the law. I think it's also stated in Glidden's manual someplace, as well as the GOAL FAQ. This is all discussed in C140 S128A/B, and S129C. S129C says that at least insofar as it is concerned, individuals who are not residents are exempt.... or at least it appears to say this.

(I redacted the mess I just wrote because t makes no sense. If you take the 3 sectionsI just mentioned, pour yourself a large cup of coffee, and try to untangle the mess, it will make a little more sense... )

ETA: There's a post in this thread that explains it well...

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-from-Maine.?p=1546101&viewfull=1#post1546101


-Mike

 

[GSG]

Does a statute of limitations apply to the FA-10 reporting requirements?

Yes, it's 6 years, although the clock stops if you move out of Mass. before the 6 years is up.

I wouldn't worry about it, since, IIRC (I could be wrong on this) but the statute of limitations for MA firearm law violations is 6 years

Yes. It's a shorter period for some gun laws, but in general, after 6 years no one can prosecute. This is of course assuming that we're talking about a generic malum prohibitum gun crime (carry/possession/transfer without abiding by all the rules), and not an "I shot a guy" type rof crime. Different limitations on those kind of gun crimes.

When I speak of compulsory registration I mean systems like the one that existed (not sure if it still does or not, but I know Angel Shamaya got bagged for it years ago) in Michigan where if the PD inventories one of your handguns (for whatever reason) and it turns up as being unregistered, that "state of existence" eg, possessing an unregistered handgun, is a crime.

Washington DC is another, and CA is a possibility as well.

-You're moving into the state and you haven't taken residency yet- When you take residency no registration of any firearms is required. You could move into MA with 100 guns and not be legally obligated to register a single one of them. (They can't say its an acquisition or a transfer because you already owned the guns when you moved into the state. ) Once you are a resident of MA then the rules change and then anything you bring in after that point must be FA-10ed.

Basically, but just to be clear, the legal "no FA-10" timeframe is 60 days after the move.

This is something I did not know. I thought that when you moved into the state and brought in guns, you had to submit FA10's on them. Is there any case law/precedent to support this?

In this thread I got into the subject pretty deep.

As far as I know there is no actual case law.

There's case law on new residents, but only on possession & carrying, not the FA-10 laws for new residents. There is one piece of caselaw on FA-10's, but it basically tells us what we already know: they're useless.

 

[Ol Doc]

Thanks to all those who have responded to this thread.
NES members are very fortunate to have folks like you as resources to help us understand the complexities of Mass firearms laws. The fact that you cite relevant portions of the law and explain them in layman's terms (in so far as possible), is very much appreciated.

 

[Knob Creek]

All I can add to Mike's reply is that 35 yrs ago when I bought my first gun, the dealers used FA-10 forms. FTF back then used the "blue card".

CHSB destroyed all records prior to 1986 (IIRC) for dealer transactions and prior to 10/21/1998 for FTF transactions . . . so they would have no record of this event even if they did file a blue card!

Don't worry, be happy!

Don't forget the gun sales from dealers recorded in the small book where you got a copy on that "onion paper" that breaks down over time.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Don't forget the gun sales from dealers recorded in the small book where you got a copy on that "onion paper" that breaks down over time.

I still have my copies and IIRC, they were marked FA-10. Some of them were almost totally unreadable when they were handed to you. Being a very odd size and I think that they only gave the dealer 2 carbons/book, they got worn out real fast.

 

[rusty58]

i have a gentleman in fla that would like to purchase my ruger m77 rifle. I'm in mass , how do i go about this transaction , does it have to be ffl to ffl or can i transfer through fa 10

 

[drgrant]

i have a gentleman in fla that would like to purchase my ruger m77 rifle. I'm in mass , how do i go about this transaction , does it have to be ffl to ffl or can i transfer through fa 10

Must go through FFL period, end, full stop. You should be aware it's only needed on his end, though, not yours. So you need to find an FFL down there that will take shipments from individuals. (Which is legal, despite many ruminations to the contrary. )

I would also try to get the remote FFL to mail you a copy of a receipt that basically states that he took gun XXX in for
transfer on such and such a date. This isn't required by law, but it is good documentation for you to have around.

-Mike

 

[30Mauser]

... , pour yourself a large cup of coffee, and try to untangle the mess, it will make a little more sense... )

mmmm... coffee...

 

[Esiah]

So I understand that if you move to MA from another state and you have not taken residency no FA10. But what if you were in the military and bought guns in another state and then you move back to MA and you never lost your residency?

 

[Kevlar]

...what if you were in the military and bought guns in another state and then you move back to MA and you never lost your residency?

FA-10s are required.