ERPO: must your turn in guns from out of state?

[bandaid bandit]

If you buy 20 80% lowers (since that's all you can buy in MA according to Healey, and I'm not quite sure it's legal for gunshops out of state to sell you a lower) and eFA-10 them, you're an idiot.

Agreed, but why not buy X number of 80% frames (P80 Glock frames, so as to not violate the 7/20 BS), then secret Y(some number lower than X), and let them waste resources trying to find them? The more of them trying to find them, the less time/longer time until screwing with the next guy/gal

 

[Heathen]

This whole mess is a dumpster fire wearing clown shoes. There is ultimately no way to protect yourself from it other than fleeing the state. Another lovely example of how the Commiewealth is more like East Germany than America.

 

[amm5061]

Agreed, but why not buy X number of 80% frames (P80 Glock frames, so as to not violate the 7/20 BS), then secret Y(some number lower than X), and let them waste resources trying to find them? The more of them trying to find them, the less time/longer time until screwing with the next guy/gal

Because those goddamn 80% Glock frames are expensive. There's also the part about how if you do such a thing, the cops will almost certainly become annoyed and send your guns straight to the thefthouse and you right to jail. Also, being pissed off, the next guy is going to probably end up with a swat team at his door because now they're worked up and have to do something about all the guns on the streets!

Seriously, I see no benefit to this, and the scenario where the cops actually go looking for this stuff rather than just buying you a railroad ticket is less likely than you being labeled a domestic terrorist and waterboarded for the locations.

 

[GM-GUY]

If you get an ERPO taken out against you, and you beat them out of state - is it over? Do the MA State Police go to NH anyway and conduct a raid on your new home? No way NH does it - but would they escort?

 

[amm5061]

If you get an ERPO taken out against you, and you beat them out of state - is it over? Do the MA State Police go to NH anyway and conduct a raid on your new home? No way NH does it - but would they escort?

Depends on the state and how they feel about MA at the time. NH would probably tell them to go EABODs. ERPO isn't covered under Lautenburg, though I'm just waiting for them to push for that federally.

 

[Boston4567]

Agreed, but why not buy X number of 80% frames (P80 Glock frames, so as to not violate the 7/20 BS), then secret Y(some number lower than X), and let them waste resources trying to find them? The more of them trying to find them, the less time/longer time until screwing with the next guy/gal

You don't have to tell them anything. An ERPO is a court order prohibiting you from possessing guns and a warrant allowing them to take them from your home. It does not independently impose any duty on you to tell them the location of all guns that you own. Such a duty could be unconstitutional anyway (if you have AWs under the auspices of MH's dictates, non-FA-10'd guns, anything within gray areas of MA law, etc, that's self-incrimination).

They come to your home. Provide a vague but plausible explanation for why what's in your safe is all you own despite the delta between what's in their and their FA-10 list. It's not like they're going to put you under surveillance. This isn't a federal investigation or even a criminal one.

In all likelihood they won't be particularly thrilled about having to deal with serving this BS anyway, especially if, as I expect, we get people trying to weaponize this and go to the cops to get a suitability revocation, and when the PD calls BS on them they get an ERPO from an MA marsupial judge anyway.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Depends on the state and how they feel about MA at the time. NH would probably tell them to go EABODs. ERPO isn't covered under Lautenburg, though I'm just waiting for them to push for that federally.

They don't go searching out of state, they contact the PD in the location (city & state) where you told them the guns were located. If that PD confiscates or not is a matter that the requested PD does/doesn't do by their internal policy.

You don't have to tell them anything. An ERPO is a court order prohibiting you from possessing guns and a warrant allowing them to take them from your home. It does not independently impose any duty on you to tell them the location of all guns that you own. Such a duty could be unconstitutional anyway (if you have AWs under the auspices of MH's dictates, non-FA-10'd guns, anything within gray areas of MA law, etc, that's self-incrimination).

They come to your home. Provide a vague but plausible explanation for why what's in your safe is all you own despite the delta between what's in their and their FA-10 list. It's not like they're going to put you under surveillance. This isn't a federal investigation or even a criminal one.

In all likelihood they won't be particularly thrilled about having to deal with serving this BS anyway, especially if, as I expect, we get people trying to weaponize this and go to the cops to get a suitability revocation, and when the PD calls BS on them they get an ERPO from an MA marsupial judge anyway.

You try this and let us know how it goes for you!

Since they take your LTC, MGL C. 269 S. 10 (some sub-section) makes it a Felony NOT to turn over/tell them where everything is located (in MA or not). It is a separate crime triggered by the confiscation of the LTC under ERPO. So ERPO doesn't have to state that they can search or charge under a different statute, it is already in place and it is used!

 

[Boston4567]

They don't go searching out of state, they contact the PD in the location (city & state) where you told them the guns were located. If that PD confiscates or not is a matter that the requested PD does/doesn't do by their internal policy.



You try this and let us know how it goes for you!

Since they take your LTC, MGL C. 269 S. 10 (some sub-section) makes it a Felony NOT to turn over/tell them where everything is located (in MA or not). It is a separate crime triggered by the confiscation of the LTC under ERPO. So ERPO doesn't have to state that they can search or charge under a different statute, it is already in place and it is used!

I think you mentioned that earlier and I couldn't find it, but you're right. Chapter 140 sec. 129D contains the detail and C. 269 sec. 10(i) references it and prescribes the penalty.

I would maintain, though, that MA has neither the lawful authority to force me to disclose what I own outside of their jurisdiction, nor the practical ability to prove I own guns outside their jurisdiction, especially if they've never been FA-10'd. It requires me to "deliver or surrender" "to the licensing authority where the person resides".

Not that I'd want to be a test case, but investigation and prosecution in a law-abiding citizen scenario seems pretty impossible if guns are out of state. If you're actually up to no good, get arrested, and the out of state fail to surrender thing gets thrown in with other charges, maybe.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Boston4567, if they find out/figure it out that you held back info, you can bet your last dollar that they will file 269-10(i) charges against you and given our Marsupial judges, since it is "guns", I'd bet on a conviction.

 

[Boston4567]

Boston4567, if they find out/figure it out that you held back info, you can bet your last dollar that they will file 269-10(i) charges against you and given our Marsupial judges, since it is "guns", I'd bet on a conviction.

Perhaps, but I think that would lead to some absurd results, and federal courts would not look kindly upon it. Granted, by the time it's overturned your life already may be ruined.

Under that interpretation you'd have to surrender a Glock you possess at your NH vacation house, but then you could have it sold to an FFL, drive up to NH for the weekend, and buy the same model.

 

[Reptile]

What if you open up a large safe deposit box in NH and put all your guns in there.

I don't think the cops can open it without a subpoena.

Edit: warrant

 

[Horrible]

Hmmm. I wonder if, in light of #metoo, the pols in this state would pass a law that a pol will get their bank account emptied, if someone accuses them of sexual misconduct? No 5A for them, either!