Economy

EddieCoyle

EddieCoyle

Consigliere
Moderator
NES Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
21,329
Likes
9,796
Location
Northern, MA
Feedback: 160 / 0 / 0
People often ask if reloading is worth it. The short answer is "Yes".

I went in to a local shop yesterday and saw that 350gr S&W .500 LRN ammo was going for $48/20 rounds ($2.40 per round). This is on the high side, but bear with me, it helps to make my point.

Last night, I cast, lubed, and gas checked about five hundred 385gr LHP .501" bullets.

This morning, I loaded the ammo. Here's what it cost:

Lead Alloy: $0 (wheelweights from local shops and range lead that I mined)
Gas Checks: $20
Bullet Lube: $4
Powder: $60
Primers: $14
Brass: $0

Total for 500 rounds of good ammo: $98
List price of 500 rounds of mediocre factory ammo: $1275 (including tax)

SAVINGS: $1173

With an $1173 budget, I could've purchased every single item I used to make this ammo, and had money left over.
 
Last edited:
True, True, True.....

The sad part is that most people would have just bought ONE box of the $48 factory ammo, and called it good.

Heck, I shoot 20 rounds in almost no time at all. I can't even begin to try and imagine how little fun it would be to only shoot 20 rounds of something.

Two things you need to start to work on, Jim:

1) Get a gas check maker, and make your own. I have a check maker tool for the .500 S&W Magnum, .44 caliber, and .30 caliber. If you scrounge just right, you can get some aluminum material for that FREE. At the worst, you'll have to buy a roll that will make bazillions of checks. The $20 for 500 bullets is way too much for checks.
2) Bullet lube - I have been making my own bees wax based lube for a while now. The cost for 500 bullets (lube-wise) is less than $.25 (two bits)

Just saying.... as inexpensive as it is already, it could be even cheaper. We already know (those of us who reload) that reloads are way better quality than factory loads. At least mine are!
 
Jim, how did you manage to 500 pieces of .500 brass for $0 ?
It's not like the abundance of 9's and .40's that people chuck in the barrel at the range.

Headscratch.gif
 
Pretty sure that what he meant was that he already had the brass. So, after the first use, the cost was free.

He once told me that he saw a large lot of .500 S&W brass on eBay (before they shut down sales of brass), or Gun Broker...not sure which..... but he bought the whole damned bunch of it. 10 lifetimes supply.

I recently scored a 800 piece deal of .500 S&W brass (new Starline!) for the mere cost of 68 pounds of pure lead. Sailboat Keel sacrifices we make......

Zappa said:
Jim, how did you manage to 500 pieces of .500 brass for $0 ?
It's not like the abundance of 9's and .40's that people chuck in the barrel at the range.

Headscratch.gif
Click to expand...
 
Zappa said:
Jim, how did you manage to 500 pieces of .500 brass for $0 ?
It's not like the abundance of 9's and .40's that people chuck in the barrel at the range.

Headscratch.gif
Click to expand...

I find it, people give it to me, and I get a lot from my club when we use my gun for events. The club buys a bunch of ammo, people shoot it in my gun, and I get to keep the brass.

Like Duke said, there used to be a guy on ebay selling once-fired 500 brass for about $20/100. I think I bought everything he had.
 
I dunno about that. My HOBBY time is FREE.

Shooting is also a hobby, and I don't charge myself for that either. As is hunting. Etc.

This great hobby is both relaxing and affords me the opportunity to shoot more!


Ziptar said:
Another way to look at it, Divide that by the time it took and see how much you just paid yourself per hour.
Click to expand...

PM inbound

06LemansC6 said:
I really should learn how to reload.
Click to expand...
 
Even with my lowly .45 ACP reloading I save a TON of cash.

It costs me about $200 in mats to reload 1000 rounds of 230 gr FMJ ammo, using premium grade bullets (fully enclosed base) a stock of brass I already have, and decent powder, and CCI primers.

If I went to buy that same case of ammo in a store right now it would easily be in the $350-400 a case range, and often that is even with what I call "negotiation". A lot of shops are still charging obama overprices on .45 because they got stuck with a bunch of overpriced ammo from their distributors.

On top of that, if I went extreme cheap, I could shoot .45 lead bullets through it and chopped another $50-100+ off the total cost, depending on where the lead gets sourced from.

Even with 9mm I save a lot. A typical price of a "case" of 9mm for me is like $130. It's like buying factory ammo in 2004. [laugh]

-Mike
 
If you shoot a lot and don't have any ammo stockpiled,it's idiotic to not reload considering the prices of factory ammo these days.

On the other hand..

If you go to the range only when your wife gives you permission,it's foolish to reload.You will have to ask permission to buy all the equipment,ask for permission to have time to reload,it just isn't worth it.
 
I can't even tell you what factory ammo costs. I've only bought 3 boxes of 45/70 in the last year.

If I don't reload, I don't shoot it. It's also why I don't try the many guns that others offer as I will need to buy one and that gets expensive.

If you are just getting into reloading I strongly suggest a progressive press. There are many who will argue that single stage is the way to go but their argument is hogwash. Simply put one case in the progressive at a time and its the same as a SS without all the downtime. Also still much faster to load a lot of ammo.
 
Fixxah said:
I can't even tell you what factory ammo costs. I've only bought 3 boxes of 45/70 in the last year.

If I don't reload, I don't shoot it. It's also why I don't try the many guns that others offer as I will need to buy one and that gets expensive.

If you are just getting into reloading I strongly suggest a progressive press. There are many who will argue that single stage is the way to go but their argument is hogwash. Simply put one case in the progressive at a time and its the same as a SS without all the downtime. Also still much faster to load a lot of ammo.
Click to expand...

I've been reloading for just over a year. What John says is true about the progressive press. They are great for doing higher volumes.

Me... I like to make a few thousand at a time of whatever caliber I'm shooting most. Setup the press once and go. I'll go to the basement after work and make 200-300 at a time. After a few weeks I've got a good inventory. And at the same time the press is due for a good cleaning anyway, so I disassemble, clean and change calibers.

Oh... I have a Dillon 550B, and have a separate toolhead for each caliber. That makes changing calibers much easier.

Part of the reason I reload is cost driven. My 17 year old son often joins me at the range, along with a friend, and they can eat up some ammo.

The other part is enjoyment. I really love the idea of creating something. I don't get to "create" much in work anymore, just deal with management stuff, so this is a creative outlet. I feel good about it. It is something new to learn and conquer.

As the old phrase goes... reloading does not save me money, but sure does let me shoot more for the same money.

:)

rich
 
Greg said:
If you shoot a lot and don't have any ammo stockpiled,it's idiotic to not reload considering the prices of factory ammo these days.

On the other hand..

If you go to the range only when your wife gives you permission,it's foolish to reload.You will have to ask permission to buy all the equipment,ask for permission to have time to reload,it just isn't worth it.
Click to expand...

leave dench and his subaru alone. [rofl]


eventually i'll set up for 9mm and .223/5.56

until then, silver bear [smile]
 
Zappa said:
Jim, how did you manage to 500 pieces of .500 brass for $0 ?
It's not like the abundance of 9's and .40's that people chuck in the barrel at the range.

Headscratch.gif
Click to expand...

He got 40 pieces of brass from me alone last time I saw him..
 
EddieCoyle said:
People often ask if reloading is worth it. The short answer is "Yes".

I went in to a local shop yesterday and saw that 350gr S&W .500 LRN ammo was going for $48/20 rounds ($2.40 per round). This is on the high side, but bear with me, it helps to make my point.

Last night, I cast, lubed, and gas checked about five hundred 385gr LHP .501" bullets.

This morning, I loaded the ammo. Here's what it cost:

Lead Alloy: $0 (wheelweights from local shops and range lead that I mined)
Gas Checks: $20
Bullet Lube: $4
Powder: $60
Primers: $14
Brass: $0

Total for 500 rounds of good ammo: $98
List price of 500 rounds of mediocre factory ammo: $1275 (including tax)

SAVINGS: $1173

With an $1173 budget, I could've purchased every single item I used to make this ammo, and had money left over.
Click to expand...

How much for 500 good cast lead bullets, and maybe 100 pieces of new brass that can be reloaded 5 times?

Even without casting, I am sure the savings are in the hundreds, which is plenty to cover the cost of a press and other equipment.
 
nhams said:
How much for 500 good cast lead bullets, and maybe 100 pieces of new brass that can be reloaded 5 times?

Even without casting, I am sure the savings are in the hundreds, which is plenty to cover the cost of a press and other equipment.
Click to expand...

500 bullets will run you over $250:
http://www.castperformance.com/Detail.bok?no=51

250 cases will go $145.70:
http://www.starlinebrass.com/products_order.php?osCsid=7aae41fc41cef6aa64a3d150ca541347

In this case, casting saves a lot. The bullets I made are 385gr hollowpoints (which you can even buy) made from a $100 mold. They're better than the bullets in the link above.
 
you can save money reloading. How fast your return on investment takes can be another story.

Progressive vs single stage. If with in your budget a progressive is to me the way to go.

I went a different route. I have more time to reload than actual range time but when I hit the range I can dump a lot of rounds down range.

I purchased a single stage hornady classic- I needed everything for metallic reloading but a scale so I purchased all the dies I needed for the many types I would be reloading.
My budget was 550.00 bucks and I came in a tad under budget and got all I needed. Also I had a budget set for bullets,powder,primers. Alot of which I have been stocking up on over the last year.

.32 S&W I do not shoot it a lot but it coast on average IF you can find it locally 27.00/50 I have purchased 4 boxes in the last 2 years. Forget the travel time to find it and go pick it up.
.312 85grain lead round nose bullets 55.00/650 OR approx bullet .08 primer .03 powder 1.5 grains of ah what penny or 2 for powder ?? approx .12 per round
6.00 per box reloaded 27.00+tax Factory. I found a nice load my little pistol likes, no leading yet. I loaded up 50 so far that paid for the die set already.

5.56/.223 Hornady 55 grain FMJ , VARGET powder , CCI #34 primers various LC, PPU , and other once fired cases by me, cost with large bulk order .18 ea It would have been cheaper but I had to pay for shipping plus some beer for my buddy for swinging it down.

30-06 Same bulk order got my reloads with hornady 168 grain FMJHP down to .35 each

.45acpI have not even began to figure out the cost on that as I will be casting my own bullets next year along with 9mm. My total cost of Casting equipment has been very low as I found most of the molds and such slightly used for el cheapo.

Fun fun fun. If you dont like it reloading After you buy all this stuff you can sell it to us out here!

I need a sizer luber next but that's a 2011 late spring early summer project.

I also drop my own lead shot for trap shooting. I pretty much returned my investment after 250lbs made.

as far as time goes. I would need to get a second job or a lot of over time(which aint happening) to afford to shoot as reloading will afford me to.
 
Last edited:
For a gas check maker, head over to castboolits.gunloads.com

There's a forum area specifically for this subject.

There are two guys making these tools. One tool style gets used on a regular reloading press (single station, another reason to have one!) and the other gets used with an arbor press.

The one used with the single station press requires two steps (punch circles out, and then cup) and the other guy has a new version which does both operations in a stepped tool. My preference is for the second type, and I have three of those so far. That fellow only sells his tools on ebay, and you can do a eBay search for Freechex to find them. He offers them in most of the sizes that need them.

Most of us are using aluminum or copper strip, easily available most places. ACE Hardware stores sells the aluminum strip as roofing material. One roll goes a LONG way!

darrowj said:
What do you recommend and what are you using?
Click to expand...
 
Jim, I used to reload quite a bit of shotgun and rifle. I am thinking of getting a progressive press for handgun soon.

Here is my honest question.

If you factor in the time that it takes to reload/ order supplies setup etc. Is it still cheaper? In other words am I better off working an extra 2 hours OT rather than spending 2 hours in the cellar and pumping out rounds? I also understand that reloading may be a bit more enjoyable than my job.
 
There are three reasons to reload - in priority

1) Cost - If the price for ammunition isn't a concern, don't reload as it is time consuming
2) Availability - If what you are shooting is available and cost isn't an issue, don't reload as it is time consuming
3) Hobby - If you aren't looking for another pastime to consume your available time, and cost and ammunition availability isn't an issue, don't reload as it is time consuming.

Hope this helps....
 
I think reloading is a seperate hobby that has it's own rewards and benefits. Saving money is clearly one big benefit. Accuracy is another.
 
Realtor MA said:
I think reloading is a seperate hobby that has it's own rewards and benefits. Saving money is clearly one big benefit. Accuracy is another.
Click to expand...

I agree, I always reloaded for customization and not for economy. For instance we were hunting rabbits without a dog in very thick brush and were taking close shots. We ended up using 12ga 7/8 oz of #4 shot. That was not commonly available at local places. The same with rifle rounds, customization.
 
Last edited:
Mike-Mike said:
J
If you factor in the time that it takes to reload/ order supplies setup etc. Is it still cheaper? In other words am I better off working an extra 2 hours OT rather than spending 2 hours in the cellar and pumping out rounds? I also understand that reloading may be a bit more enjoyable than my job.
Click to expand...

Good question. It depends on the caliber you load and how much you shoot.

I cited an extreme case in the OP. If I added up all of the time I spent to make that ammo - getting the lead and smelting the alloy, acquiring gas checks, primers, and powder, casting the bullets, and loading the ammo, I bet it still comes to about $100 of savings per hour of time spent.

If I picked cheaper ammo that was more time consuming to make (like .223) then maybe not - unless I was planning on shooting a whole lot of it (which I do, which is why I make it).

Like anything, it gets cheaper per unit (and less time spent per unit) when you make larger quantities. It takes just as long to order 5000 bullets as it does to order 50.

There does come a point for everybody where your time is more valuable to you than the cost savings you'd get from doing it yourself. Some peoples' time is so valuable that they'd rather buy factory ammo that do any reloading. I stopped reloading for a long while when my life got too busy.

Duke mentioned making his own gas checks and lube. I'm not going to do that. I spend less than $100/year on those things, and with all of the other shooting-related things I do, it's simply not worth it to me to make my own. I probably wouldn't even be casting my own bullets if I didn't like to shoot the .500 so much.

With the right equipment, two hours in the cellar can get you close to 1000 rounds of ammo.

If your brass is 'free', you can use the formula below to estimate the cost per round for jacketed handgun ammo in quantities of 1000 or greater:

Cost per round (in cents)= .05 + (bullet weight in grains x .067)

115gr 9mm will cost you about $0.13 ($6.50/box of 50)
158gr .357 Magnum runs about $0.16 ($8.50/box of 50)
230gr .45 ACP will run about $0.20 ($10.00/box of 50)
200gr 10mm will cost you $0.19 ($9.50/box of 50)
240gr .44 Mag costs about $0.21 ($10.50/box of 50)

You can see that it's barely worth it to reload 9mm, but if you shoot 10mm or .44 Magnum, you make out big time.

ETA: It can get even cheaper if you look around for deals. For example, that $0.05 in the formula about can drop to a little as $0.025 if you use Wolf primers and surplus powder.
 
Last edited:
If you are looking for accuracy, then most factory fodder is just fine unless you are into precision shooting.
I didn't add that to my reasons to reload post as it didn't sound like you were going down that road. I would
put customization in the hobby category.
 
EddieCoyle said:
You can see that it's barely worth it to reload 9mm, but if you shoot 10mm or .44 Magnum, you make out big time.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing you haven't bought factory 9mm in a while? Last I checked, WWB at Walmart was ~$22/100. I load poly coated lead 147s for about $0.11. That'll go down a cent or so next time I buy primers if I stay with Wolf, and going to 115 would drop it another penny.

It depends on volume of course. I shoot 5-10K 9mm a year. Also, you can't buy 135PF 147gr 9mm other than from a specialty manufacturer like Atlanta Arms. If you only shoot 100-200 rounds a month, 9mm isn't worth the effort. The payback for the magnum cartridges just happens much faster.
 
I reload everything I shoot and this is what it costs me per thousand/box of 50 using black moly bullets:

9mm - $110 = $5.50/box
40 - $127 = $6.35/box
45 - $130 = $6.50/box
44 - $160 = $8.00/box

I don't cast my own bullets or mess with gas checks. The black bullet is easy on the barrel and cleans up great!
 
Last edited:
I would say if working a few hours over time covers your cost of shooting then thats a good way to go.
My work has no over time
Part time job would absorb any free time I have.

I have about 3 hours a few nights per week. Kids in bed wife is work.

I paid 940.00/2500rnds 5.56 various manufacture PPU,LC,WCC,XM193 ect ect

with my current components cost I can load that for 450.00
 
EddieCoyle said:
You can see that it's barely worth it to reload 9mm, but if you shoot 10mm or .44 Magnum, you make out big time.
Click to expand...

Jim, I think $6+ a box savings is a bit more than barely worth it. That said, I generally agree though... if I could get 9mm for $120 a case (like it was in 2004 or so) I probably wouldn't reload it, but it's not that cheap anymore. Everything that isn't WWB is often stupidly overpriced, to the tune of $12+ a box or more.

Another reason I started reloading 9mm is during the Obama panic- commercial ammo was unbuyable in any real quantity. While everyone else was out going "bweaaaah the sky is falling!" I just walked into my basement and made all the 9mm I wanted. Even with the primer shortage things like a box of 1000 small pistol primers were still easier to find than 1000 rounds of 9mm.

This is another consideration that should be brought to light. Say I have $1000 to spend on components. That $1000 would go a lot further in components than it would in loaded ammo. Even if it's not "assembled" yet, it can keep one way ahead of the game in terms of your ammo supply. There's also crossover in components- eg, things like primers can be used for more than one caliber, so stocking is way more flexible.

The general rule of thumb I tell people, is at least for handgun ammo, if you are shooting more than 1000 rounds a year of a given caliber, you'll easily make out
reloading, with the obvious doublings of savings and so forth that occur once you go past .38 Special.

-Mike
 
Last edited:
Actually...... IF you were going on a hunting trip of a lifetime......

You know..... Caribou in Canada.... Jet ride to Calgary. 3 hour SUV ride to a small ranch. Then, float plane to a remote location. Horseback for another 6 hours to get to the final hunting area. You paid $20,000 for permits, guide service, meals, gratuities, etc....

You MIGHT get one shot at a trophy caribou......

Are you going to buy THAT ammo at Walmart? Or, are you going to make your own, and know exactly.... EXACTLY, at 1/4 mile away, where the bullet is going to hit????

My answer is that I am going to make that round myself!

Patriot said:
If you are looking for accuracy, then most factory fodder is just fine unless you are into precision shooting.
I didn't add that to my reasons to reload post as it didn't sound like you were going down that road. I would
put customization in the hobby category.
Click to expand...
 
Back
Top Bottom