Duel Residency handgun purchase

[steveyc272]

In regards to my Non-Resident application, the message now states they are working on applications sent in at the end of April, I'm pretty sure mine went in at the end of March, and my check hasn't been cashed, that's why I think it may have been lost or misfiled.

Regardless, I think I am better of getting a Non-resident here in NH so my MA LTC stays valid. As Mike stated:

I'm not sure if NH cares or not, but I know that
an MA resident LTC is declared "invalid" when you take up residency outside of MA.

Mike, based on my situation, is there any common law that dictates my MA LTC would become invalid? I believe I am fine as the NH address is only temporary, and I will be returning to MA for periods of time throughout the year. Most importantly, it is my intention to move back to MA after school (well, sort of!). This is assuming I do not get a NH Resident permit.

 

[Len-2A Training]

There's also the issue of having to rely on a permit if you're not actually a resident. I'm not sure if NH cares or not, but I know that
an MA resident LTC is declared "invalid" when you take up residency outside of MA.

-Mike

Mike, I suspect that this isn't a problem for college students. MA is so anal that no college student is a MA Resident unless they graduated HS in MA, that it would be double-talk to cancel a DL or LTC since the person is attending college outside MA.

MA is his "permanent residence" while he's in college. Many states recognize students as residents (even though temporary) . . . but if they worry about having to provide "in state tuition" rates, they usually go anal like MA.

He fits the Fed definition of dual resident while in school. Now if NH recognizes that he has no fear of what MA "likes" or not.

Too many people "over think" this issue and worry unnecessarily. MA doesn't cancel DLs or LTCs of soldiers, sailors or Marines who are stationed elsewhere but declare MA as "residence of record" nor do they do it for snowbirds who "move" to AZ or FL for the Winter months.

 

[drgrant]

Mike, based on my situation, is there any common law that dictates my MA LTC would become invalid? I believe I am fine as the NH address is only temporary, and I will be returning to MA for periods of time throughout the year. Most importantly, it is my intention to move back to MA after school (well, sort of!). This is assuming I do not get a NH Resident permit.

To answer this, you'd really have to know what your indicators of residency are. For example, if you have a home in MA, with an MA DL, and you're registered to vote here, you could still technically make the argument that you are still an MA resident, especially given that you only intend to stay in NH for a fixed period of time and not the "indefinite future."

Course the fun part about this is I doubt there is a test case on the books for this in MA. (EG, a situation where a DA contests the validity of someone's LTC based on an argument of the accused not being a resident)- Obviously, in such a case, the state qould have to qualify their argument with a "residency test" of sorts. )

For most folks their primary residency indicator is their driver's license. However, this is generally not a be all end all of residency. The issue can get very gray, especially if the person in question is in military service. (Residency for servicemen/women is somewhat of a "fungible" thing).

-Mike

 

[steveyc272]

Thanks for the replies. I'm not real worried about this, I just like to know the law and be aware.

Perhaps the best advice was from my father, "Stop being paranoid about all the MA laws and just move the hell out. Change your residency, why would you ever want to come back to Mass anyways!?" Hahaha. It's true, but I want to have options upon graduation.

Thanks again guys.

 

[drgrant]

Too many people "over think" this issue and worry unnecessarily. MA doesn't cancel DLs or LTCs of soldiers, sailors or Marines who are stationed elsewhere but declare MA as "residence of record" nor do they do it for snowbirds who "move" to AZ or FL for the Winter months.

I agree that CHSB or whoever probably will not revoke a license automatically until expiration. That isn't the problem, really- that stuff is just administrivial crap overall.

Potential problems could arise, however, if an MA LTC holder takes residency somewhere else, still has a resident LTC, "thinks" that it's still valid, then gets into trouble somewhere in MA (say, a defensive shooting, or a serious auto accident where the guy is carrying )- the question at that point then is whether or not a prosecutor/DA is going to try to attack the legitimacy of the person's MA LTC or not, and whether or not such a legal attack by the state would be successful or not.

-Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

Mike, you are over-thinking this thing!

Any half-decent attorney could take apart the residency argument, since MA is so anal on students being NON-Residents! They can't then turn around and make the reverse claim just because the person who graduated HS, lives with Parents, maintains MA DL and voting, but goes to school in NH becomes a "man without a state"!! They can't have it both ways.

In fact, MGLs DEMAND that Snowbirds have MA DL, Reg and Insurance. Check the laws on this, don't take my word for it. All you have is 30 days cumulative in MA/year and you MUST maintain the above. Special exception on DL and Reg is in the laws for NR students in MA, BUT they must have a MA RMV special sticker, register all info with college security and maintain MA levels of Insurance while at school.

My head's about to explode from the insanity of this discussion!

 

[drgrant]

Mike, you are over-thinking this thing!

Any half-decent attorney could take apart the residency argument, since MA is so anal on students being NON-Residents! They can't then turn around and make the reverse claim just because the person who graduated HS, lives with Parents, maintains MA DL and voting, but goes to school in NH becomes a "man without a state"!! They can't have it both ways.

In fact, MGLs DEMAND that Snowbirds have MA DL, Reg and Insurance. Check the laws on this, don't take my word for it. All you have is 30 days cumulative in MA/year and you MUST maintain the above. Special exception on DL and Reg is in the laws for NR students in MA, BUT they must have a MA RMV special sticker, register all info with college security and maintain MA levels of Insurance while at school.

My head's about to explode from the insanity of this discussion!

Len, I'm not disputing that the fellow here is an MA resident. He's got enough factors in his favor where it's not an issue.

I only posted what I posted, to illustrate the possibility that if the variables were different, the outcome might not be the same.

-Mike

 

[plumber]

It seems that the problem here, if any is how the PR of Ma would treat a Mass resident if residency was claimed elsewhere. On that I can't comment. But as far as the ATF is concerned it is possible and legal. Also, some states do not differ between resident and non resident permits, RI for example. Just because you have a resident permit does not make you a resident. I have dual residency between Maine and Rhode Island with resident permits in each, and can buy firearms in either state. I also have a resident permit in Massachusetts, but it has my RI address on it, issued by the town my business is in. The mass permit does not allow me to purchace anything because I'm not a resident. But in my situation, the Feds are ok with it as well as the states of Rhode Island and Maine. But as far as having a resident permit from another state not making you a resident of the other I'm not to sure of that one. Some states do not require you to live there as a 'resident' to get a resident permit, Maine and New Hampshire are among those. Most juridictions there will issue to a land owning taxpayer. Same way you can get a resident hunting licence in Maine when you go to your camp you spend two weeks a year at.

 

[plumber]

Another factor that would solidify residency is where and to whom you pay taxes. In my case I'm a resident of Rhode Island and Maine, and pay income taxes to both.

 

[taggart]

Arise ye dead thread!

Resurrecting this thread since it is exactly the situation I'm thinking about. MA resident with another residence in NH wanting to purchase a gun there (summer home, etc).

I don't think anyone disagrees that it is all cool according to BAFTE and NH (I can provide relevant links if anyone cares). I think the real crux of the issue is what does MA think when you've had your LTC for X number of years and then all of a sudden register a brand new glock on an FA-10.

For those that say it is not allowed, MA does not allow dual residency, etc., what MA laws would be broken?

Even if MA wants to claim you as a resident, are there any specific MA laws broken by the above-mentioned transaction?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Too many people "over think" this issue and worry unnecessarily. MA doesn't cancel DLs or LTCs of soldiers, sailors or Marines who are stationed elsewhere but declare MA as "residence of record" nor do they do it for snowbirds who "move" to AZ or FL for the Winter months.

Another issue to consider with residency is taxes. If you have substantial investment income, you owe taxes on it for the duration of the time you are a resident - thus making it potentially benficial for snowbirds to keep their resident of record in FL, AZ or whatever.

Potential problems could arise, however, if an MA LTC holder takes residency somewhere else, still has a resident LTC, "thinks" that it's still valid, then gets into trouble somewhere in MA (say, a defensive shooting, or a serious auto accident where the guy is carrying )- the question at that point then is whether or not a prosecutor/DA is going to try to attack the legitimacy of the person's MA LTC or not, and whether or not such a legal attack by the state would be successful or not.

Chapter 140, section 131m - Unless the license is revoked for a reason other than failure to notify of a change of address; a renewal declined, or the LTC holder becoming a prohibited person under state law, the expired LTC provides a LIFETIME of protection against a ch 269 criminal charge, leaving only the 140-131m civil penalty of $500-$5000 at stake.

 

[WPDC13]

I think the real crux of the issue is what does MA think when you've had your LTC for X number of years and then all of a sudden register a brand new glock on an FA-10.

You are assuming that someone actually reads what is on the FA-10's..........I've been told by several reliable sources, and seen first hand, that this is not the case.

 

[drgrant]

I think the real crux of the issue is what does MA think when you've had your LTC for X number of years and then all of a sudden register a brand new glock on an FA-10.

They don't care. They are happy someone bothers to register something, let's put it that way.

Not to mention there are a myriad of reasons why someone would use this form. For example movement from an out of state property, inheritance from estate, etc. "Inference of wrongdoing" via an FA-10 registration would be a pretty dumb move on the part of the state. There's no meat there other than someone (potentially) trying to comply with the law. FA-10s say nothing about the context of the transaction or acquisition.

(danger, micro rant ahead, this is NOT directed at you WPDC13, just people who may be
reading this thread).

I'll also take a moment to mention that those who fill out "seller" info on FA-10 forms checked for REGISTRATION are ****ing a**h***s. There is no seller, you morons! If you are using the form for that function that portion of the form is NEVER to be filled out. Ever. It's none of the state's business where "it" came from. (For example if you are a C&R holder and you transferred in a handgun, it is unnecessary to tell the state where it came from, it's none of their business, or you are a rifle builder and you just built out an AR/AK/FAL reciever.... or you were traveling and you bought a rifle/shotgun out of state legally and you brought it back into MA ) and those are just 3 of 100 examples. ) A lot of chuckleheads put the dealer who transferred in their frame or the remote seller on the FA-10, and this makes the hacks at CJIS start asking dumb questions. Don't do it. It's none of their business. Period.

-Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

I think the real crux of the issue is what does MA think when you've had your LTC for X number of years and then all of a sudden register a brand new glock on an FA-10.


You are assuming that someone actually reads what is on the FA-10's..........I've been told by several reliable sources, and seen first hand, that this is not the case.

One better . . . to all, read carefully the bolded part.

C. 140 § 128B Purchases Made Outside of the Commonwealth (or Outside of §128A)​

[FONT=LKAOBC+TimesNewRoman][FONT=LKAOBC+TimesNewRoman]Any resident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle or shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than from a licensee under section one hundred and twenty-two or a person authorized to sell firearms under section one hundred and twenty-eight A, and any nonresident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than such a licensee or person, and receives such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, within the commonwealth shall within seven days after receiving such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, report, in writing, to the commissioner of the department of criminal justice information services the name and address of the seller or donor and the buyer or donee, together with a complete description of the firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, including the caliber, make and serial number.
[/FONT][/FONT]

Now, IANAL, but the way this reads (to me) is even if you are a visitor bringing a low-cap rifle/shotgun to shoot in MA (exempt from LTC/FID in this case), you MUST register it with the state within 7 days as written above. It would still be REGISTRATION (I agree with Mike's rant above).

Now here are the problems I see with this:

- e-FA-10 won't let you do this since you don't have a LTC/FID number and PIN!!
- Doubt that even the paper FA-10 would be scanned w/o LTC/FID number. Most likely it would be rejected.
- What do you put as your address? This is a "VISITOR" and an out of state address should bring a "flag" on the FA-10, perhaps a knock on the door when you get back home, etc. Not a pleasant result for trying to do this!
- "Commissioner of the Dept. of Criminal Justice Information Services"?? Unless they promoted Jason, his title (on last Email to me a few weeks ago) is DIRECTOR, not Commissioner. No idea if this is a different person, but if so I never heard of a higher level getting the FA-10s for scanning . . . as far as I know this is the job of Jason's department.