Destructive Device?

[DickWanner]

http://ebaybanned.com/product_info.php?cPath=68_69&products_id=993

Some people on a paintball forum were talking about putting these on their markers (they look like M16/M4s), but I'm questioning the legality as it could potentially fire a real 40mm explosive grenade. I don't want one, but was wondering if they are legal to own or simply playing dice with the BAFTE.

 

[wolf223]

wow

that's some serious paint balling!

 

[DickWanner]

Haha, the forum is http://www.alphablackforum.com/forums/ . I think some of these guys have more accessories than some of our guys with AR-15s.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

I'd say yes, if it fires standard 40mm gas grenades and over .50cal with a rifled barrel.

A simple call to the ATF would get you an official answer, since they are who you'd apply to for a transfer of one if deemed a DD.

EDIT: Looking at the quality of it, I don't think I'd trust firing anything out of it. I like having all my body parts intact.

 

[drgrant]

In the US generally speaking a 40mm launcher is a DD, regardless of the projectiles you have for it.

If they want to dodge that problem they could use a 37mm flare launcher or the like. These are legal to put on anything as long as you don't produce "anti personnel" ammunition for it.


-Mike

 

[John2]

Advertised as "metal" is a line for the suckers. Die case is "metal", but pull the trigger on a real 40MM and it'll be the last thing you ever do. These are intended as display pieces, not for use. The Chinese undestand the "Buyer Beware" phrase. Before I'd buy one of these things, I'd wait until the Chinese cleaned up their act with milk, toys, etc.

 

[DickWanner]

Good to know, I was fairly confident it was a DD. These guys are way too mil-sim for me, I'll just stick to regular capture the flag woodsball games.

 

[drgrant]

One other thing here... I'm not sure how "airsoft grenades" work, but I'd place a fair wager that any cheapo airsoft launcher probably won't touch off a regular grenade/shell. That said, BATFE might still whine about it if the bore diameter is really 40mm. (same way they've been known to whine about detachable paintball supressors.)

-Mike

 

[DickWanner]

One other thing here... I'm not sure how "airsoft grenades" work, but I'd place a fair wager that any cheapo airsoft launcher probably won't touch off a regular grenade/shell. That said, BATFE might still whine about it if the bore diameter is really 40mm. (same way they've been known to whine about detachable paintball supressors.)

-Mike

Yup, that's why I just game them a warning about the BAFTE. Those guys know no mercy.... or common sense.

 

[vellnueve]

I'm not sure if this is the same product, but a company named Tippmann Ordnance made pneumatic M203 replicas that fired paintball grenades. 47mm.

Here's a review of it.

http://www.pbreview.com/products/reviews/3135/

 

[DickWanner]

The device fires rimfire "gas grenades". I'm not sure what a "gas grenade" is, but the fact that it is rimfire means it won't be able to fire any real 40mm explosive shells. Like DrGrant said, the diameter alone might be the sole issue with the BAFTE. The device vellnueve posted fires pneumatically so wouldn't that one be exempt?



And just to clarify again, I have no plans now, nor in the future, to purchase any device like this or anything remotely similar for a paintball marker. I'd rather throw my cash away on a real AR-15.

 

[vellnueve]

Pneumatically fired = absolutely legal as long as it isn't shooting anything explosive. A pneumatic launcher wouldn't be able to accept or use a standard 40mm round.

 

[DickWanner]

Pneumatically fired = absolutely legal as long as it isn't shooting anything explosive. A pneumatic launcher wouldn't be able to accept or use a standard 40mm round.

That one I listed in the OP is a rimfire and couldn't fire a standard 40mm round. I'm not sure of the actual propulsion, though.

 

[drgrant]

HMM in poking around it seems like there are a lot of these 40mm airsoft launchers for sale, domestically and otherwise. If they really can't fire 40mm shells, they might just be exempt from regulation.

-Mike

 

[LoginName]

HMM in poking around it seems like there are a lot of these 40mm airsoft launchers for sale, domestically and otherwise. If they really can't fire 40mm shells, they might just be exempt from regulation.

-Mike

Probably along the same ruling/determination as a spud gun... until the user decides to use it to (as the ATF puts it), "expel flaming tennis balls", then it can be a DD.

 

[DickWanner]

HMM in poking around it seems like there are a lot of these 40mm airsoft launchers for sale, domestically and otherwise. If they really can't fire 40mm shells, they might just be exempt from regulation.

-Mike

Probably along the same ruling/determination as a spud gun... until the user decides to use it to (as the ATF puts it), "expel flaming tennis balls", then it can be a DD.

Makes sense, gotta be the only way so many can get away with it. Either that or the BAFTE feels the fish are too small to fry, which is highly unbelievable.

 

[EasyD]

The definition of a DD can be found at 26 USC 5845(f):

(1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas
(A) bomb,
(B) grenade,
(C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces,
(D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,
(E) mine, or
(F) similar device;
(2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; and
(3) any combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting any device into a destructive device as defined in subparagraphs (1) and (2) and from which a destructive device may be readily assembled. The term “destructive device” shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon; any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device; surplus ordnance sold, loaned, or given by the Secretary of the Army pursuant to the provisions of section 4684 (2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.

As far as I can tell, the airsoft launchers can't fall into any of the categories that are Destructive Devices. Also, ATF can cover themselves with the complete vagueness of the language, and if someone did devise a way to use real 40mm ammo in one of the airsoft launchers, the Secretary could just issue a ruling saying they are DDs, and amnesty register them, just like the USAS-12 and Streetsweeper-type shotguns.

--EasyD