Deep Well Hand Pump

[BlackwaterFence]

I had a deep well (400') drilled at a remote camp.
There is no permanent dwelling, but still a need for water.
Conventional Submersible pump with expansion tank is in the future plan after a structure is built. But a deep well pump can suffice for now, as well as backup in case of power loss. I read some old reviews about Bison Pump, but discovered The Simple Pump which uses lighter weight fiberglass drop-rods.
Does anyone have experience with these?

 

[603doug]

been years since i installed a deep well hand pump(when the world was suppose to end y2k) and our cost was 2000 dollars for 300ft just in materials. When someone ask now i tell them buy a generator and keep everything going

 

[BenDover]

What's the static water level....depth of well does not matter....how far up the water needs to go is what matters.

 

[BlackwaterFence]

What's the static water level....depth of well does not matter....how far up the water needs to go is what matters.

I don't know the static water level.
it was just drilled, but I will check it out Saturday.

 

[northny]

Driller should give you static height and continuous flow rate on well.

 

[BlackwaterFence]

Driller should give you static height and continuous flow rate on well.

I live out of state. I left a message for him and waiting for reply.

 

[BlackwaterFence]

The static level is 50'
the recovery rate is 2 gallons per minute

 

[Archilochus]

I have a Simple Pump, and have installed a Bison at a friends house. They are more or less the same functionally. The Bison looks nicer if that is a concern, but is quite a bit more $$.

Installing the Bison was harder, as I had to drill a big hole in the casing. They have since changed the design to remove that necessity.

If your static is 50', you'll probably want to go at least 125' with your hand pump - but that depends a lot on the recharge rate after heavy use or dry times.

 

[BenDover]

A 6 inch diameter pipe holds about 1.5 gallons. A 2gpm recharge rate is pretty slow so you are going to use your well casing like a storage tank. Pumps like the simple pump can easily pump out 5GPM.

Putting the intake at 83ft gives you 50 gallons worth of storage (33 feet of piping holding 50 gallons)...or 10 minutes of hand pumping. After pumping for 10 minutes you can do it again 25 minutes later.

If you prefer to not pump by hand there is another proven solution I have been using for 4 years. This pump: http://sunpumps.com/Products/SDS-D-128 costs $750 and runs from a 12V battery, or a small PV panel. It draws about 4 amps while pumping into a 60PSI pressurized tank. It only produces about 1/2 GPM at 12 volts but the power draw is very low. Since its production is less than the recharge rate of your well, you could put it in at about 70ft and still pump up a tank to 50PSI give or take. The sun pumps are super high quality and have rebuild kits available...buy it once use it forever. This pump also has 230ft of lift...so if your well level goes down you probably won't be screwed.

 

[BlackwaterFence]

Thank you for the replies.
i like the idea of 12v pump, but the simple pump might suit my needs better.
For the time being, pumping 20 gallons at a time (in 8 minutes) would suit my needs.
After we install the AC submersible, it can still be used in case of power outage.
I sent a request for quote to get exact price, but I think it's about $1,500.00

 

[603doug]

Your well is making 2 gpm at the depth(bottom of well) and 0 gpm at 50 ft so in sizing your pump be careful not overpump the well. This shortens the life of the pump, been drilling and installing for 40 years and folks want a lot of water and they get what the Good Lord gives. I have countless wells making 2 gpm and families never had a problem,taking in account of usage such as irrigation etc then you might have an issue

 

[JayMcB]

A 6 inch diameter pipe holds about 1.5 gallons. A 2gpm recharge rate is pretty slow so you are going to use your well casing like a storage tank. Pumps like the simple pump can easily pump out 5GPM.

Putting the intake at 83ft gives you 50 gallons worth of storage (33 feet of piping holding 50 gallons)...or 10 minutes of hand pumping. After pumping for 10 minutes you can do it again 25 minutes later.

If you prefer to not pump by hand there is another proven solution I have been using for 4 years. This pump: http://sunpumps.com/Products/SDS-D-128 costs $750 and runs from a 12V battery, or a small PV panel. It draws about 4 amps while pumping into a 60PSI pressurized tank. It only produces about 1/2 GPM at 12 volts but the power draw is very low. Since its production is less than the recharge rate of your well, you could put it in at about 70ft and still pump up a tank to 50PSI give or take. The sun pumps are super high quality and have rebuild kits available...buy it once use it forever. This pump also has 230ft of lift...so if your well level goes down you probably won't be screwed.

dammit there's ANOTHER thousand bucks for the house in NH. is there a different pump for a dug well?

 

[BenDover]

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200624889_200624889

Max lift 19.5 feet...I have one and would recommend stripping the paint off and using a good enamel on it...40 Bucks it's not bad.

https://www.lehmans.com Has some better quality but more expensive options....search for the word pump.

 

[JayMcB]

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200624889_200624889

Max lift 19.5 feet...I have one and would recommend stripping the paint off and using a good enamel on it...40 Bucks it's not bad.

https://www.lehmans.com Has some better quality but more expensive options....search for the word pump.

I have a second supply line from my dug well into my basement. It's currently capped, but I'd like to add a second (DC) pump I could attach to my plumbing as a backup. Then batteries and PV as needed to feed it...although I guess then it should be feeding a cistern up the hill so there would be a gravity feed and the slower volume could be mitigated by having water up hill?

 

[scatter]

very interested in this topic. I am probably going to buy a Simple Pump or a Bison Pump in the next few days. I have looked at both websites and am leaning toward a Bison. Seems to be a little bit less expensive and they have a lot more information on their site.

If anybody has any additional experience with either of these, please post it.

One thing I don't quite understand is the ability to pump into the pressure tank. Sounds good, but if I pump into the pressure tank, which seems to be at about 12 psi, can I drain it completely before I have to go out and pump again? For example could I fill it up and take a quick shower, or could I just run a tap for a moment or two before the pressure drops and the flow stops?

 

[Archilochus]

am leaning toward a Bison. Seems to be a little bit less expensive

One thing I don't quite understand is the ability to pump into the pressure tank.

Bison is (or, at least was) quite a bit more $$ (~$350 more / system). Re-check those prices before ordering.

Run-time would depend a lot on the size of the pressure tank. The water pressure will taper off as you use it, so draining it to zero, while possible, isn't going to yield much at the lower pressures. You can test your existing system by letting it pump up, then kill the power to the pump. Run some water and see what happens.


A lot more pluming involved too. If you want a permanent system tied in to your pressure tank, you'll have to install a second Pitless adapter below the freeze line, as well as some check valves etc.
Otherwise it's just cobbed together with hoses and such above ground - not for use in winter.


Both companies will try and sell you some "special installation tools". Don't bother with them. One-use home-brew implements can be made in a few minutes.

EDIT: Make sure to inspect your well before buying anything! Some wells will have 'torque arrestors' types that will not allow the drop pipe to pass down the casing.
Also - check how much clearance you have at the Pitless. This will determine the maximum size pump body that you can drop down the well.

 

[BenDover]

if you are using a demand hot water heater it's gonna stop running at some point as the pressure tank empties out. Tanked heater won't care...

 

[scatter]

Well I finally got out and actually measured my static water level.

We live on a mountain top. According to the driller's report, we have a 340 foot well, with fractures at 128 and 197 feet. The yield is 50 GPM. Casing is 6 inches.

When I dropped a can on a string down it today, I found the static water level to be about 10 feet below the top of the casing (which is about 2 feet above ground level). My pressure tank in the basement is at approximately the same height as the top of the casing, since the land slopes away from the house toward the well.

So now I'm thinking of getting a shallow water suction pump and installing it inside the basement to pump directly into the pressure tank. Any thoughts from those of you that know this stuff "well"?

 

[Archilochus]

Our static is also about 10' too. It drops fast under use. To get a real-world idea, check the level immediately after your heaviest use, then every 30 minutes or so until it's back to static level.

After heavy use, ours takes more than a day to get back to a level where our hand pump is back in business (it's 75' down).

 

[BenDover]

50 GPM is a pretty good rate. I would do a pumpdown test to see how fast the level drops. Set a shallow pump at 5-10 GPM using a bucket see how fast the static level drops. With a 10ft level you can see the water...just stick a steel tape down there and watch the level drop.

My well was rated at 10GPM and the water only goes down 6-12 inches with a hand pump that produces 5GPM. If yours is the same way you probably have no worries.

An interesting idea for you...RV pumps have about 15ft of lift. They also have built in pressure switches so they will shut themselves off when the tank is full. You can use a 1/2 pex pipe with foot valve on the end as an intake...it will easily fit in the well casing. The output tees into the pressure tank (use a check valve). A 50 watt PV panel, small 12v battery, and a charge controller could power the thing. If you used a deep cycle marine battery you could probably power a bunch of other things too.

Well I finally got out and actually measured my static water level.

We live on a mountain top. According to the driller's report, we have a 340 foot well, with fractures at 128 and 197 feet. The yield is 50 GPM. Casing is 6 inches.

When I dropped a can on a string down it today, I found the static water level to be about 10 feet below the top of the casing (which is about 2 feet above ground level). My pressure tank in the basement is at approximately the same height as the top of the casing, since the land slopes away from the house toward the well.

So now I'm thinking of getting a shallow water suction pump and installing it inside the basement to pump directly into the pressure tank. Any thoughts from those of you that know this stuff "well"?

 

[Bill Katt]

Has anyone come across any plans or instructions on how to make a homemade deep well hand pump?

 

[Archilochus]

Has anyone come across any plans or instructions on how to make a homemade deep well hand pump?

Lots of hits with the search terms: home made deep well hand pump - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=home+made+deep+well+hand+pump&t=ffsb&ia=web

For example:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/pvc-manual-well-pump-zmaz00jjzgoe?slideshow=1

Alternatively, you could buy a quality manufactured pump, and fabricate all the other stuff (drop pipe, actuator rod, pump head/handle) to save a lot of $$ Which, in hindsight, is what I would have done.

 

[Bill Katt]

Thanks. I'll look into those. Although, I may have already seen the 'motherearthnews' one and that would be a bit LARGE for what I'm looking for.

 

[Archilochus]

Yeah - I saw that massive one too - something like 3.5 gal per stroke! The example in the link above is a smaller one.