deciding on a retreat

[mg42doc]

I'm looking at a couple properties to the north. One is only an acre, but secluded (so far off the road i wasn't sure if it had electricity) a small river bordering one side, and a small pond on the property. No neighbors appear to be visible from property. looks to be on enough of a slope that flooding from the river wouldn't be a problem. I'm assuming the drive way is a ROW through a neighbor's property because it's so far from the road.

the other is 8 acres of woods, looks like steeper, hilly terrain. elevation ranges from about 300' where the house sits to 480' at the peak of the hill behind the house. no surface water is apparent on property,
topo also shows a dirt road behind the property with structures, but google satellite imagery just shows woods, i can't see anything else. maybe those are camps that are no longer there.
There are neighbors on each side that seem to be within shouting distance. (I see the house in the realtor's pictures) There is a detached garage, and the driveway is shared. (house sits back from the street, 30-40 yards)

I haven't seen plot maps or visited either of these properties, I like lots of land,but I'm leaning towards the property with the surface water. both have comparable style homes on them so that isn't really a point of contention.

Any thoughts? Something else I should look for? they're both within a half a tank of gas distance from me and the price is right if the houses aren't complete 'holes when i go to see them.

 

[Prepper]

Is this NH or Maine? If you go at least 11 acres, you can save on taxes by having 10 acres in "current use" or "tree growth tax program".

 

[mg42doc]

Is this NH or Maine? If you go at least 11 acres, you can save on taxes by having 10 acres in "current use" or "tree growth tax program".

Live Free or Die.

re: current use. Does it have to be forested? could part of it be, say, swampland? Useless to build on so I wouldn't want to "improve" it anyway.

The bride and I keep clashing on lot sizes. We did agree on 1 parcel that was 20 acres at a good price, but the house was a mess (looked like the foundation from the pics) We never got the chance to see it before it sold. I regret missing out on that one. it backed up to conservation land, so you knew you'd never have neighbors back there...

we've made progress, at least she stopped showing me "cute" houses on .25 acre lots

it's sort of my fault as I spun this as a "vacation" property, she doesn't realize how strongly I'll push for exodus from the PRM once the smell of freedom hits our noses.

It's a game of chess, gentlemen. one move at a time....

 

[Prepper]

Live Free or Die.

re: current use. Does it have to be forested? could part of it be, say, swampland? Useless to build on so I wouldn't want to "improve" it anyway.

The bride and I keep clashing on lot sizes. We did agree on 1 parcel that was 20 acres at a good price, but the house was a mess (looked like the foundation from the pics) We never got the chance to see it before it sold. I regret missing out on that one. it backed up to conservation land, so you knew you'd never have neighbors back there...

we've made progress, at least she stopped showing me "cute" houses on .25 acre lots

it's sort of my fault as I spun this as a "vacation" property, she doesn't realize how strongly I'll push for exodus from the PRM once the smell of freedom hits our noses.

It's a game of chess, gentlemen. one move at a time....

Good question... That I don't know. In Maine, they subtract the water filled land from the total. Fortunately, not always correctly.... They said I have 3 acres under water but it is more like 20 although I have no good way to count it exactly.


You said earlier half a tank away, so 200 miles? That is fairly far up if I guessed correctly. You will be there more frequently if it is 1 to 2 hours away. Southwest NH has good sized rural plots of land often 25k to 35k that you might want to look at depending on your goals.

 

[Howland]

we've made progress, at least she stopped showing me "cute" houses on .25 acre lots

I should be so lucky. Even after I tell her I will not live like that, that's what she keeps showing me.

 

[American 1]

.

 

[FrugalFannie]

Live Free or Die.

re: current use. Does it have to be forested? could part of it be, say, swampland? Useless to build on so I wouldn't want to "improve" it anyway.

The bride and I keep clashing on lot sizes. We did agree on 1 parcel that was 20 acres at a good price, but the house was a mess (looked like the foundation from the pics) We never got the chance to see it before it sold. I regret missing out on that one. it backed up to conservation land, so you knew you'd never have neighbors back there...

we've made progress, at least she stopped showing me "cute" houses on .25 acre lots

it's sort of my fault as I spun this as a "vacation" property, she doesn't realize how strongly I'll push for exodus from the PRM once the smell of freedom hits our noses.

It's a game of chess, gentlemen. one move at a time....

use this link to check questions on current use rules in NH http://www.nh.gov/btla/appeals/currentuse.htm

 

[mg42doc]

I should be so lucky. Even after I tell her I will not live like that, that's what she keeps showing me.

i feel your pain...

I turned to satellite views to show my wife just how crowded and undesirable those locations were... I'd find the guy with the junk in his yard, a nearby airport, sometimes I'd just zoom in on a nearby swamp and go on and on about the mosquitoes that must be breeding there...it took a while, but she's come around (somewhat) to my line of thinking

 

[coachjpg]

2 thoughts:

When you say "hilly terrain", I hear "backstop".

I've come to believe that the most important thing about any property is the neighbors. My definition of a good neighborhood is when you can go next door to borrow a case of ammo. This is even more important for a retreat. If you can invite the neighbors out to coffee and chat, you might learn things that strongly influence your decision.

 

[Mr. Gold]

Bigger is better.
Also depends what do you plan to do there, ever plan to grow food ? in that case, how's the southern exposure ? etc.

1 acre does not seem like an ideal retreat where one can sustain themselves.

 

[Prepper]

One acre is rather small, unless you are talking about valuable lakefront property that you just have to be on.

5 acres and up start to get good, but 10+ is needed for the tax benefits.

I happen to have 200, but you don't need anywhere near that big and there is no realistic way to manage it all... It ends up being forest that is mostly never accessed. I just wanted something so large that most of the land would never see another human on it, ever. It is fun to literally get lost on your own land and spend 2 hours trying to figure out how to get back to the road. But that is just me. Oh, and it also worked out well because a billionaire bought 2.5 square miles next to me, so my land size helps keep him at bay.

 

[mg42doc]

2 thoughts:

When you say "hilly terrain", I hear "backstop".

I've come to believe that the most important thing about any property is the neighbors. My definition of a good neighborhood is when you can go next door to borrow a case of ammo. This is even more important for a retreat. If you can invite the neighbors out to coffee and chat, you might learn things that strongly influence your decision.

"backstop"............. that's music to my ears.... i hadn't thought about it that way.

I definitely agree about the neighbors. Will vet them at the earliest opportunity.

- - - Updated - - -

Bigger is better.
Also depends what do you plan to do there, ever plan to grow food ? in that case, how's the southern exposure ? etc.

1 acre does not seem like an ideal retreat where one can sustain themselves.

Southern exposure is nil. It would be on the northern slope of the "hill"

- - - Updated - - -

One acre is rather small, unless you are talking about valuable lakefront property that you just have to be on.

We looked at lakefront property for recreational purposes but it was just too crowded, and not near enough land.

 

[SW40C]

Where are you looking? My parents have just over 6 acres on the pisquaticis river with a trailer on the property for around 50k. Roughly 4.5 hours from central ma

 

[Varmint]

2 thoughts:

When you say "hilly terrain", I hear "backstop".

I've come to believe that the most important thing about any property is the neighbors. My definition of a good neighborhood is when you can go next door to borrow a case of ammo. This is even more important for a retreat. If you can invite the neighbors out to coffee and chat, you might learn things that strongly influence your decision.

+1 when 10,000 starving Boston refugees reach your property, you better have a some neighbors to help you with the belt feed.

 

[FreeWillie]

+1 when 10,000 starving Boston refugees reach your property, you better have a some neighbors to help you with the belt feed.

They won't flee North. All their relatives are in the Southern big cities and surviving the cold without .gov heat is beyond their skill level.

Sent from the depths of Hell using TapaTalk

 

[Varmint]

They won't flee North. All their relatives are in the Southern big cities and surviving the cold without .gov heat is beyond their skill level.

Sent from the depths of Hell using TapaTalk

There's enough masses in Boston they'll be fleeing in every direction. And what they lack in skills they make up for in self delusion.

I'll try to slow them down for you when they pass through the burbs. Think of us as a speed bump.

 

[namedpipes]

... it's sort of my fault as I spun this as a "vacation" property, she doesn't realize how strongly I'll push for exodus from the PRM once the smell of freedom hits our noses. ...

Hmmm... I like how you think. This might be a solution for me as well...

 

[mark056]

There's enough masses in Boston they'll be fleeing in every direction. And what they lack in skills they make up for in self delusion. I'll try to slow them down for you when they pass through the burbs. Think of us as a speed bump.

Well there may be some truth in that but I think you are working under the assumption that somehow only the residents of the inner city are going to be fleeing, this is both class and race driven thinking. White suburbia will succumb to the same mentality and Muffy and Buffy will load their 2.5 exceptional children (one of whom I'm sure has some kind of developmental disorder but will overcome it because he is a "super kid" who will become a brain surgeon) put on their Birkenstocks, load their SUV with tofu chips and head north cuz they remember what a great time they had at Bar Harbor last summer. You are deluding yourself if you think your neighbors are going to form little bands of militias and fight delaying actions. You are going to be fighting your neighbors and if they know you prep, even a little or have guns, you're a target. Shelter in place will take on a whole new meaning when you have to take out that nice guy two houses down who let you borrow his power tools and now wants your food and your guns and will kill you for them.

As far as a retreat goes, it's all about timing. You have to be astute enough to read the indicators and warnings to know when to go. That can be tricky. There can be false starts and stops. Historically when things collapse and devolve into utter chaos, it happens very quickly. You have to egress quickly and be prepared to fight your way to your retreat. I don't mean just inner city denizens, you're gonna have to fight your way thru places like Newton, Cambridge and Brookline. People in Roxbury, JP, Lawrence and Lowell already know how to survive, probably better than you do, many of them predatory and street smart, have better personal combative skills learned on the streets and in prison stints where there are no second place winners. Having a tricked up AR a years supply of dehydrated food and an A Frame in the North Woods of Maine ain't gonna do ya much good if you are stuck in Chelmsford cuz 495 is impassable and all the gangs from Lowell are raping and pillaging the area, and your neighbors are looting the stores and trying to kill you for your guns.

IMO it boils down to getting the hell out of Dodge now and living far away from civilization which you can still do in these United States, or shelter in place and harden the site where you live now. Each has their advantages and disadvantages. If you survive in either scenario, you and your family will become the strong men/women of your "valley" and people will come to you for protection, a new Neo-feudalism will evolve where the strong will protect the weak IMO. You will have plenty of serfs to do your bidding. You have to be realistic not romantic when it comes to this prepper stuff. Imagine what living in a place like Somalia is like with war lords and stuff and that's what living in post apocalyptic Amerika is probably gonna be like on a good day.

 

[Prepper]

There's enough masses in Boston they'll be fleeing in every direction. And what they lack in skills they make up for in self delusion.

I'll try to slow them down for you when they pass through the burbs. Think of us as a speed bump.

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about the Boston hoards fleeing and reaching a retreat in NH or Maine. Those folks think they've reached the great white north if they've managed to walk as far north as Middlesex Fells, or maybe Andover for the more ambitious of them. I'd be more worried about the local neighbors up north who live near the retreat. Mine has only a few hundred people living in the town, but odds are at least 100 of them are total sacks of crap who would have no problem venturing up into the hills where they remember seeing vacation retreats when they last hunted, to see what they can pillage.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

One acre is rather small, unless you are talking about valuable lakefront property that you just have to be on.

5 acres and up start to get good, but 10+ is needed for the tax benefits.

+1.

Last fall I settled on 5 acres of wooded land, most of which is behind my house. It abuts a large plot of unreachable (landlocked?) private land that abuts the power lines. If I didn't have to move for a job opportunity, I would have searched out something a little bigger. I am quite happy with my piece of dirt, though. I do shoot on my property and might even take a shot or 2 on an animal this year.

Maybe in a few years I will look at a bigger piece of land up north a little further for a family camp to play on. Getting up here when I did was a little more important at the time.

 

[headednorth]

White suburbia will succumb to the same mentality and Muffy and Buffy will load their 2.5 exceptional children (one of whom I'm sure has some kind of developmental disorder but will overcome it because he is a "super kid" who will become a brain surgeon) put on their Birkenstocks, load their SUV with tofu chips and head north cuz they remember what a great time they had at Bar Harbor last summer.

Maybe I havent been around enough, but this doesnt sound like any suburb Ive ever been in. Sounds like youre doing your own type of class/race driven thinking. Stereotype much?

People in Roxbury, JP, Lawrence and Lowell already know how to survive, probably better than you do, many of them predatory and street smart, have better personal combative skills learned on the streets and in prison stints where there are no second place winners.Having a tricked up AR a years supply of dehydrated food and an A Frame in the North Woods of Maine ain't gonna do ya much good if you are stuck in Chelmsford cuz 495 is impassable and all the gangs from Lowell are raping and pillaging the area, and your neighbors are looting the stores and trying to kill you for your guns.

Have to disagree on the survival skills of the average person living in the places you listed. Their "survival knowledge" consists mostly of swiping an EBT card, living in publicly funded housing, enjoying publicly assisted utilities, and eating food bought with taxpayer money. If and when that all goes away, theyre screwed. I agree, the average resident there can more than likely fistfight better than the average suburbanite. Their firearms knowledge is most likely limited to an occasional round or two fired through a rusty .380. The AR you mentioned would be a good way to maximize your advantage and minimize theirs in any kind of self defense situation.

 

[mark056]

Maybe I havent been around enough, but this doesnt sound like any suburb Ive ever been in. Sounds like youre doing your own type of class/race driven thinking. Stereotype much? Have to disagree on the survival skills of the average person living in the places you listed. Their "survival knowledge" consists mostly of swiping an EBT card, living in publicly funded housing, enjoying publicly assisted utilities, and eating food bought with taxpayer money. If and when that all goes away, theyre screwed. I agree, the average resident there can more than likely fistfight better than the average suburbanite. Their firearms knowledge is most likely limited to an occasional round or two fired through a rusty .380. The AR you mentioned would be a good way to maximize your advantage and minimize theirs in any kind of self defense situation.

People are people and most are sheeple. We use the term Moonbats a lot around here and truth of the matter most are moonbats. It doesn't really matter what your race or class is, when faced with a break down of society the thin veneer of social convention goes out the window.

I'm afraid I'm not going to agree with your assessment of inner city culture. I would characterize, and this is based on my own experience and knowledge, inner city gang culture to be highly organized, intelligent, well equipped, reasonably well armed and with sufficient hard commodities such as drugs, firearms, gold in the form of jewelry, and the ability to control the local populace thru fear and intimidation. People who live on the edge and on poverty tend to act a bit more ruthlessly and in a more predatory nature. If you have accused me of stereotyping I would submit your broad brushed characterization of the typical inner city person is equally stereotypical. However I'll put my money on the probable success of somebody who has survived the mean streets all their lives over somebody who has received nothing but participation trophies and thinks the police will protect them, and that my friend although a generalization constitutes a large portion of the middle and especially the upper middle class today. Inherent in my writing is a particular flaw, it is no longer based much on ideology or philosophy but observation and experiences. If applying the micro to the macro is to an extent intellectually dishonest then mea culpa, all I know that if the SHTF in my nice middle class condo (mainly white) I figure it would be something like the Walking Dead without the Zombie Virus and whatever action needed to be taken would have to be taken to ensure my survival and those of my loved ones even if it meant that I become the predator. If you look like food you will be eaten (not on a cannibalistic sense, so save the jokes please, you know what I mean ) if my neighbor has food and I need food and my neighbor can't keep his food..oh well. That attitude pisses a lot of people off, but it's realistic and pragmatic.

Bottom line : if the STHTF don't trust anybody. You have no friends, whether they are Harvard MBAs or Roxbury HS Drop-outs.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

I love how NES can turn a thread asking for input on buying land/moving into a thread about bugging out and shooting your white neighbors.

 

[Kevin_NH]

Or maybe my neighbor's tax stamp came in?

Visit on a Saturday morning; this is the first weekend in recent memory on which I don't hear gunfire. Either the heavy snow falling is keeping people indoors, or just muffling the sound.

topo also shows a dirt road behind the property with structures, but google satellite imagery just shows woods, i can't see anything else. maybe those are camps that are no longer there

Google satellite view is great, or if you use the full Google Earth client you can switch to older image sets. Also, don't rule out Microsoft, sometimes Bing Maps "Birds Eye View" is better, plus, if you rotate the view, you get different seasons!

r.e. current use. Does it have to be forested? could part of it be, say, swampland? Useless to build on so I wouldn't want to "improve" it anyway.

Current use normally requires 10 acres unused (after house, driveway, fenced in yard, etc), but wetlands under 10 acres can be put in current use, as can any size of "certified tree farm".

Usually anybody selling land is going to already have it in current use and this will be reflected by their current tax bill; if you need to take property out of current use, there is a change fee and of course the property tax will go up.

14 acres seems to be the magic number if you want property with no visible neighbors.

I haven't seen plot maps or visited either of these properties, I like lots of land,but I'm leaning towards the property with the surface water.

If you have many acres of level land, you can always add surface water later.

The bride and I keep clashing on lot sizes. We did agree on 1 parcel that was 20 acres at a good price, but the house was a mess (looked like the foundation from the pics) We never got the chance to see it before it sold. I regret missing out on that one. it backed up to conservation land, so you knew you'd never have neighbors back there...

More acres + Abutting Conservation is the way to go. You can never have too many acres in NH. Myself, I'm looking for +98 acres.

 

[mark056]

I love how NES can turn a thread asking for input on buying land/moving into a thread about bugging out and shooting your white neighbors.

I do too. Gotta luv it pal, that's the beauty of this forum. If I wasn't on my phone I'd give ya a solid +1. You are one of our Forum's shining assets

 

[FrugalFannie]

There's enough masses in Boston they'll be fleeing in every direction. And what they lack in skills they make up for in self delusion.

I'll try to slow them down for you when they pass through the burbs. Think of us as a speed bump.

How far do you think the average unprepared person would actually be able to get?

Heck, how far do you think even the average 'prepared' person will make it?

 

[namedpipes]

How far do you think the average unprepared person would actually be able to get?

Heck, how far do you think even the average 'prepared' person will make it?

I suppose it depends on how soon they turn to cannibalism.

 

[FrugalFannie]

I suppose it depends on how soon they turn to cannibalism.

97% of the people wouldn't be able to beat their way out of a wet paper bag never mind drive 30+ miles north when everyone else is panicking.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

How far do you think the average unprepared person would actually be able to get?

Heck, how far do you think even the average 'prepared' person will make it?

Since we are insisting on turning this into a zOMGBOBEOTWWORLOL thread, just remember there are shitty people en masse all over the place, not just Boston and it's suburbs. Some of the nicest rural towns in NH have problems with drugs, petty crime, and shitty people. To think those folks wouldn't be a problem is a bit naive.

 

[Prepper]

Since we are insisting on turning this into a zOMGBOBEOTWWORLOL thread, just remember there are shitty people en masse all over the place, not just Boston and it's suburbs. Some of the nicest rural towns in NH have problems with drugs, petty crime, and shitty people. To think those folks wouldn't be a problem is a bit naive.

Yup, this. There's no need to have masturbatory fantasies about zombie hoards from the ghettos of Boston storming into some rural place they don't even know exists, such as, say, Grafton, NH. It's the locals we'll need to worry about. They know the land. They hunt there, hang out drinking beer in the woods, etc. They notice when outsiders/newcomers move in and build stuff. The have the mud trucks and the ATV's and the snow mobiles ready to go to quickly get to your place in the woods.