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DATE FIRM, May 22nd . . . 2010 Spring Cast Bullet Workshop - Shirley Rod and Gun Club

UPDATE: JUst looked and found one on the bench that didn't get processed. It's measuring .3555/.3560, which is pretty damned round! So, they cast pretty close to usable size, even with out sizing, per se. They still need to be lubed.

BTW, they were run using wheel weight alloy, PLUS about 1/2 pound of linotype in the 20 pound pot. I have found that it makes for hard, shiny, right on size bullets.

I have just recently gotten that mold, and have cast a bunch of them, and loaded many. However, I have yet to fire them, or recover any from the berm (to see what the expansion looks like). So, let me know how that goes. Pics, please.

OH, and...... Miha indicates that he has extras of that mold available for sale!!!
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=79309

The one I have is the 357 caliber. That just happens to be what he has available for sale. They will go fast, if you want one.
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Not sure what the UNsized size is, since the other samples that I brought home got resized/lubed this morning (for Stuart from Weaponcraft). I'll poke around in the shop, and see if I can find one hanging around unsized.

Those are just about my most fav bullets. They always come out near perfect!
 
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Wow, 2 Bob J's..... Pretty scary! [smile]

highscore said:
The other Bob J (highscore)
Click to expand...


Glad everyone enjoyed the workshop.....

Much appreciate Jim getting us an opportunity to do this at Shirley..... Duke's place is nice but it is a looonnnng ride.....[crying]

Also appreciate Manomet covering the cooking...... I have to say those sausages were awesome!
 
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We had a great time, the sausages were really good, and I have pictures of the day on my camera which I will post in the next day or so. Thanks everyone for making it a great casting clinic!!
 
No, no no.... you made TWO of them when you made them. There's another one just like it, I believe, up in the barn. I may be wrong, but I think so.

Kicker96FS said:
You cut 45 deg. cuts on the top deck? All welds on the inside? And how did you roll the fire shield? Sure looks like mine.... but then if you copied it, I am flattered. :)
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Fight??? We're like Felix and Oscar. Best friends who sometimes "bicker".....

I won't tell you who's Oscar and who's Felix, but the guy further North has the slightly messier home.




The funny part starts after 1:30 !!!!
 
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I am glad everyone liked the sausages, I'll tell the butcher your all jealous I live next to Woonsocket. To be fair Bob (namedpipes) brought and set up his kettle cooker. He brought the charcoal and all the dogs w/ buns for them. Without his contribution we would all have been roasting on sticks over smelting burners. Thanks to Bob.
 
Manomet said:
I am glad everyone liked the sausages, I'll tell the butcher your all jealous I live next to Woonsocket. To be fair Bob (namedpipes) brought and set up his kettle cooker. He brought the charcoal and all the dogs w/ buns for them. Without his contribution we would all have been roasting on sticks over smelting burners. Thanks to Bob.
Click to expand...

Well, y'all shot down my first suggestion to have fondue. I mean we had the melting pots and everything all ready to go anyway [shocked] [laugh] (that WAS some pretty awesome sausage. Woonsocket, eh? I don't get down there that often but when I do I may hit you up for the name of the place)

Fixxah said:
Way to go Bob, I honestly forgot that I saw the grill in your wildebeest.[thumbsup]
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Purely selfish reasons! I was NOT going all day without "too much food". Between the dogs and the sausages&peppers I don't think anyone went hungry.
 
DukeInMaine said:
UPDATE: JUst looked and found one on the bench that didn't get processed. It's measuring .3555/.3560, which is pretty damned round! So, they cast pretty close to usable size, even with out sizing, per se. They still need to be lubed.

BTW, they were run using wheel weight alloy, PLUS about 1/2 pound of linotype in the 20 pound pot. I have found that it makes for hard, shiny, right on size bullets.

I have just recently gotten that mold, and have cast a bunch of them, and loaded many. However, I have yet to fire them, or recover any from the berm (to see what the expansion looks like). So, let me know how that goes. Pics, please.

OH, and...... Miha indicates that he has extras of that mold available for sale!!!
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=79309

The one I have is the 357 caliber. That just happens to be what he has available for sale. They will go fast, if you want one.
------------------------------------------------------


Not sure what the UNsized size is, since the other samples that I brought home got resized/lubed this morning (for Stuart from Weaponcraft). I'll poke around in the shop, and see if I can find one hanging around unsized.

Those are just about my most fav bullets. They always come out near perfect!
Click to expand...

I plan to load and shoot them this weekend. Thinking that 3.9/4.0 grains of 231 will get us about 1000 +/- FPS. The only "fast" powder I have is Vectan Ba10 which is what I loaded a lot of bullseye rounds with but I want to stick with the 231. I will shoot them over the chronograph into a box of sandbox sand to make it easier to recover them. I'll save a few of them to test for hardness. We have a hardness tester at work that they are a bit freaky about changing over from testing rockwell hardness to brinell but we'll get it done one of these days.
 
You should be OK. Post the results when you can.

highscore said:
I plan to load and shoot them this weekend. Thinking that 3.9/4.0 grains of 231 will get us about 1000 +/- FPS. The only "fast" powder I have is Vectan Ba10 which is what I loaded a lot of bullseye rounds with but I want to stick with the 231. I will shoot them over the chronograph into a box of sandbox sand to make it easier to recover them. I'll save a few of them to test for hardness. We have a hardness tester at work that they are a bit freaky about changing over from testing rockwell hardness to brinell but we'll get it done one of these days.
Click to expand...
 
I loaded and shot the 9mm bullets casted in Duke's mold at the casting workshop. Unfortunately once again, my XD-9 reminded me why I don't shoot lead through it. 26 rounds and the barrel looks like lead hell. Good thing it likes Montana Gold bullets or I'd sell it. If anyone can tell me how I can post pics (my "posting permissions" states that I may not post attachments) you can keep me from using photobucket which I do not like. I'll post pics of 5 bullets I recovered, chronograph data, and targets.
Bob
 
I believe you can't post photos because only NES members can post photos. I recommend that you click on the green in my signature below and join up. You won't regret it.
 
It's most likely that the sizing ring that I put those bullets through isn't the same size that your gun likes. Perhaps sizing them differently would help you. Or, changing the lube might also help.

Where in your barrel was MOST of the leading???? Leading typically shows up in one or two areas more than others in the barrel. If it is worse at the breach end, then it's typically a sizing issue. If it's more at the muzzle end, then it might be a lube issue. The lube and size I use works in my guns! Also, you gun might like a softer bullet than what we cast in my mold. If you were to check your Montana Gold, you might find that they are more like 50-50 lead (50% wheel weights/50% pure lead). The ones that you cast from my mold are harder than that, straight wheel weight lead with some linotype added. If the bullets are too hard for your barrel, then the lead might not be seating up against the lands and grooves properly, causing the hot gases to jet by, melting the lead. A softer bullet can be better than a harder bullet in some cases.

I wouldn't make any judgment about whether you can can cast for your gun from my samples. Creating a "recipe" that works in your gun is a trial and error thing. Good to keep notes, and work through the methods towards success.

The workshop was more about HOW to do things, rather than a finite example of working samples.

Here's another example for you of what I am suggesting:

I cast some samples from Bob_J's .30 caliber mold. I sized some at home at .308, but because they were so hard, they measured out at .309. Bob graciously sized some additional samples for me at .309 and .310. I'll try all of those, and adjust the lube somewhat, and try to find a combo of size and lube (and powder - both amt and type) that gives me good flight, and low leading in my rifle. By the time I have that one worked through, I bet I'll have tried more than a few combos... hardness, sizing, powder, etc...... I'll eventually come up with a "recipe" for making .30 cal bullets!

highscore said:
I loaded and shot the 9mm bullets casted in Duke's mold at the casting workshop. Unfortunately once again, my XD-9 reminded me why I don't shoot lead through it. 26 rounds and the barrel looks like lead hell. Good thing it likes Montana Gold bullets or I'd sell it. If anyone can tell me how I can post pics (my "posting permissions" states that I may not post attachments) you can keep me from using photobucket which I do not like. I'll post pics of 5 bullets I recovered, chronograph data, and targets.
Bob
Click to expand...
 
The leading is from the throat just about to the muzzle end. Grooves are much worse than the lands, pretty much the same as I got with the Speer bullets. See pics (hopefully). Mean speed is 1024 which is about what I figured I would get.
I'm not giving up but need to tool up before this can continue. We tried to test hardness at work but couldn't get the Clark Industries Model EDR to read for BHN. We have a small amount of documentation on the unit but I'm trying to get more information. The Montana old bullets are jacketed (they look like brass, not copper) and my foul out unit doesn;t take it out of the barrel, but they sure do shoot well.

DukeInMaine said:
It's most likely that the sizing ring that I put those bullets through isn't the same size that your gun likes. Perhaps sizing them differently would help you. Or, changing the lube might also help.

Where in your barrel was MOST of the leading???? Leading typically shows up in one or two areas more than others in the barrel. If it is worse at the breach end, then it's typically a sizing issue. If it's more at the muzzle end, then it might be a lube issue. The lube and size I use works in my guns! Also, you gun might like a softer bullet than what we cast in my mold. If you were to check your Montana Gold, you might find that they are more like 50-50 lead (50% wheel weights/50% pure lead). The ones that you cast from my mold are harder than that, straight wheel weight lead with some linotype added. If the bullets are too hard for your barrel, then the lead might not be seating up against the lands and grooves properly, causing the hot gases to jet by, melting the lead. A softer bullet can be better than a harder bullet in some cases.

I wouldn't make any judgment about whether you can can cast for your gun from my samples. Creating a "recipe" that works in your gun is a trial and error thing. Good to keep notes, and work through the methods towards success.

The workshop was more about HOW to do things, rather than a finite example of working samples.

Here's another example for you of what I am suggesting:

I cast some samples from Bob_J's .30 caliber mold. I sized some at home at .308, but because they were so hard, they measured out at .309. Bob graciously sized some additional samples for me at .309 and .310. I'll try all of those, and adjust the lube somewhat, and try to find a combo of size and lube (and powder - both amt and type) that gives me good flight, and low leading in my rifle. By the time I have that one worked through, I bet I'll have tried more than a few combos... hardness, sizing, powder, etc...... I'll eventually come up with a "recipe" for making .30 cal bullets!
Click to expand...
 
Well, as I pointed out, Mihec still has some of that mold available for purchase. I'd suggest that you can make it work for you. You might consider buying the mold, and testing until you get the formula for it.
 
Pics of Duke's 9mm hollowpoint cast bullets, used.

Here's pics of Duke's 9mm hollowpoint bullets casted at the seminar, shot into a box filled with play sand. Real good expansion on three of them and I'd say that the last two probably hit looser sand at the top of the box . If this pic downloads, I'll post more later on this. I's say that this is a good bullet for pin shooting.
 

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Nice, those were made with wheel weight alloy, PLUS 1/2 pound of linotype added in.

I think I will run some in 50-50 alloy (50% wheel weights, and 50% pure lead.)
That will give better expansion (when it hits something), and might also help with your leading.

Should I send you some of those samples?
 
DukeInMaine said:
Nice, those were made with wheel weight alloy, PLUS 1/2 pound of linotype added in.

I think I will run some in 50-50 alloy (50% wheel weights, and 50% pure lead.)
That will give better expansion (when it hits something), and might also help with your leading.

Should I send you some of those samples?
Click to expand...

Sure, thanks for the offer. I'm PM you my address. When we figure out how to set up the hardness tester, I'll test both bullets and report back on them. My friend that was at the seminar with me is shooting some of those Speer bullets that I have to see if they lead his barrel. He also has an XD-9, we bought them at the same time. We are hoping we can get this to work!
 
I've forgotten who ended up with that antique casting furnace but was curious as to whether or not it worked? It was definitely a blast from the past and pretty kool looking.
 
It was me John. I plugged it in and no heat. I played with the adjustment, which spun around and around, and got a little smoke from the control box so I put it away until I could find time to take it apart to see what is happening. It looks like it could work. Most likely it is just a rheostat. I will let you know when I get time to take it apart.
 
The old rheostats are notorious for doing just what you observed. Replacement is typically easy.

And, the heater coil is normally trouble free, once you get electricity to it.
 
I cast some of those 9mm HP's today, using a 50-50 mix (50% wheel weight alloy and 50% pure lead)...

They drop from the mold at .3565/.3570 (not much different from the straight wheel weight alloy with some linotype added), and weigh 125.5/125.7 grains.

I don't have a way to lube them at the cast diameter. Best I can do is to send you some as-cast samples, HighScore, and have you perhaps do a pan lube on them. That's where you place them in a shallow pan, butt side down, and you pour melted lube around the bullets, until the height of the poured lube rises up past the lube groove. Put the pan in the fridge to harden the lube, and then poke the bullets out. The lube should stay in the grooves. Bob_J does a lot of that with some bullets. The best way is to use one of those flexible silicone baking pans, and it releases the lube slab (containing the bullets) easily.

PM me your address, and I'll send you some.

I'd suggest getting some "carnauba red" from the white label place:
http://www.lsstuff.com/lube/
 
Fixxah said:
I've forgotten who ended up with that antique casting furnace but was curious as to whether or not it worked? It was definitely a blast from the past and pretty kool looking.
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Okay John, here's the status. The pot is a Lyman model 61 which is the same as a Saeco #24. I opened it up expecting to see a rheostat but the knob is connected to a little thermostat. Checking it out I found a wire that was broken so I replaced it, put it back together and tested again. This time I got some heat but then I adjusted the knob and after a few minutes it seemed like the unit was cooling off. It never melted lead. I unplugged it and waited until the next day so it would be cool then took it apart again. Everything looked okay so I ohmed the heater coil and got 12.5 ohms which should be about right for a 1KW unit. The thermostat would only close when I turned it up to max and then it wasn't very reliable. I have found a thermostat on the Web for $30 and plan to order one. Hopefully this will fix the problem. Stay tuned...
 

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