Comments/Input on Rifle choice, upgrade or start over?

[twortley]

I've "played around" in 2009 getting back into precision rifle shooting (did a lot in the UK, both UIT 3 position with my Walther KKM 22LR and "fullbore" with P14 action in 308Win out to 1000yds), now ready to get more serious about equipment.

I purchased a Rem700 in 308Win last year which was previously setup as a sniper - seems to be accurate enough (1/2" groups at 200yds, 1/3" at 100yds) with handloads. Has a good quality Leopold scope and NO iron sight bases

To shoot highpower to 600yds I need 2 things I think, one is iron sights, and a better/adjustable stock. (1) Iron sights means a dovetail on the front to take my existing Anschutz sights OR barrel milled down to ~0.75 for tube sights. Both need a gunsmith. (2) Stock - I want a tubegun look

To get this converted to a highpower version would involve a decent tubegun stock ($1000?), 'ladder' front sight ($200?) and barrel turndown ($??). I guess I could suffer the unadjustable stock for a while and shoot a season with iron sights only. This would make the rifle a $2500 investment.

Any comments, is it foolhardy to get an existing super-accurate Rem700 barrel turned down to accept a tube sight? Any gunsmith recommendations? Dump/Recycle the Rem700 and startover?

Thanks
Tim.

 

[PatMcD]

Start over. If you want a bolt gun, there are lots of good used ones out there. A quick search found this: http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15030

It's really hard to beat an AR in Match Rifle configuration.

I'd get a rear sight meant for Highpower. Anschutz are great sights, but I'm not sure how they would hold up to the constant cranking you would be doing on them.

 

[Jasper]

gotta go with Pat on that one. AR match rifles or the Tubb2K is REALLY hard to beat (which is why you almost never see anything BUT those 2 variations on the line).

CompetitionShootingStuff makes a nice rig for the remington 700 or savage actions. basically includes the whole rig you'd need minus the sights.

http://competitionshootingstuff.com/

ive seen/held a CSS tubegun. very nice for the money.

 

[bpm990d]

When you say precision rifle shooting, do you mean shooting F class or prone shooting with a sling or shooting across the course matches (standing, sitting, prone)?

The Remington 700 actions as they come can be ok, and they can be cleaned up to be great, but you might be better off selling it and getting a custom 700 clone to use as the basis for a build.

B

 

[twortley]

I think I'm stuck in the old UK "has to be 308" (or 7.62 as we called it) world. However, I was looking to put a White Oak match upper on a new lower build, sounds as though this will work abnd give me good results out to 600yds.

What are the caliber limitations here - say in local/regional competition. For general "high power" it seems you can use anything?

Yes - I looked at CSS tubeguns as well. Hell of an expensive stock considering everything else you need to add ...

Tim

 

[twortley]

When I say precision, I mean iron sights, single point sling supported in prone & kneeling, and some standing thrown in (though my "fullbore" days were mostly prone).

My current Rem700 is scope only, and it is so much better than my rifle was in UK (which afterall had a 90 yr old action in it), but a lot of work to get it with adjustable stock and iron sights.

Sounds like I may have an accurate Rem700 up for sale, else use it for F class!

 

[Jasper]

I think I'm stuck in the old UK "has to be 308" (or 7.62 as we called it) world. However, I was looking to put a White Oak match upper on a new lower build, sounds as though this will work abnd give me good results out to 600yds.

What are the caliber limitations here - say in local/regional competition. For general "high power" it seems you can use anything?

Yes - I looked at CSS tubeguns as well. Hell of an expensive stock considering everything else you need to add ...

Tim

if you want to shoot XTC, there's 2 basic divisions... Match Rifle, and Service Rifle.

Service Rifles are pretty limited in what can be done. exterior wise, they must remain stock. internally, you can do damned near whatever you want so long as the trigger weighs out @ 4.5lbs. modified NM sights are acceptable, and necessary. if your eyes can handle it, shoot SR.

you can build a VERY competitive service rifle for around $1300 or so ($300 lower+LPK+stock, $280 for a geiselle trigger, $750 or so for a WOA/WOP/CLE/etc upper, and ~ $50-80 for Turner/LesTam sling. ancillary gear (shooting coat/glove/scope/etc is obviously extra)


match rifles are a whole new world. expect to be in the realm of $2k+, sometimes upwards of $5k, and can basically have any modifications desired so long as they're iron sights.


current NRA/CMP Highpower rule book:

http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-index.pdf

 

[bpm990d]

It's ugly here. Sort of like a someone face caught on fire and 20 people helped put it out with hammers and icepicks. It's a convoluted cluster ....

Do you like shooting standing? Regular HP Across the course is probably the most popular, but there are a fair number that shoot belly only matches.

B

 

[PatMcD]

I think I'm stuck in the old UK "has to be 308" (or 7.62 as we called it) world. However, I was looking to put a White Oak match upper on a new lower build, sounds as though this will work abnd give me good results out to 600yds.
What are the caliber limitations here - say in local/regional competition. For general "high power" it seems you can use anything?

Yes - I looked at CSS tubeguns as well. Hell of an expensive stock considering everything else you need to add ...

Tim

That is the best thing you could do.
Add about $500 for sights and you are on your way.
If there is a problem with .223 vs. .308, it's the ammo situation. Match-grade .308 can be found on the shelf easily. With .223, you really need to handload.

Ammo can be no larger than .35 caliber.

 

[ZainAnak]

1/2" groups at 200y?? Sounds like you have a horrible rifle on your hands - I'll be glad to unburden you. Let me send you my address and you can ship it to a loving and caring home equipped to handle such a troublesome piece of equipment.

 

[twortley]

It works fine and I guess my handloads are starting to work. I don't get this scope stuff, to me it feels like cheating

This target was 5 shots off the bipod at 200yds - blurry because of focus with ruler on scanner. If I decide to get into bolt action tube guns for high power, it will become available

Tim

 

[bpm990d]

If you are going to shoot prone matches then it should be fine as you can shoot in the Palma class. If you want to shoot over the course (standing, sitting and prone), I'd take the .308 barrel off and put some kind of a 6mm or 6.5mm barrel on it. Great scores can still be shot with a .308, but they really are not competitive with the smaller bore size in terms of wind deflection and recoil or cost.

B

 

[twortley]

Yes, that's what I'm starting to learn getting back into high power. When I shot at Bisley Imperial meets, it was all 308 - and usually provided ammo. A lot has changed in 15 yrs!

 

[PatMcD]

I would find it awfully hard to part with a rifle that shot that well at 200yds.

If you are looking to get into highpower shooting, the less expensive way is Service Rifle. $1100-$1200 puts you into a rifle that will clean any target. Match Rifles are easier on the eyes, but come at a price. You start at basically the same $1100-$1200, but need to add things; sights for sure, adjustable stock and other goodies as budget allows.

 

[ZainAnak]

Out of curiosity, what magnification was that group shot at?

 

[twortley]

I have a cheapo Barska scope I use for testing my handloads - it was set to 25x I think. I have a good quality 10x Leupold which I usually use, but I can't see the shot holes at 200yds. My spotting scope is still in the UK with my 22LR rifles. The scope is dim, dim, but in bright conditions its manageable even up to 40x power.

 

[tdeon221]

So do you still want to shoot Commonwealth style, prone only? That would be a close fit to F-Class, Palma, and Midrange or Long range prone. We don't usually pair fire or put 3 on the mound. Or do you want to shoot the 3 positions, offhand, sitting, prone, with rapid fire stages for sitting and prone? Then you can choose if you want to shoot a service rifle or a match rifle. As Pat said, Service Rifle is the most challenging and least expensive way to get on the line. All the extra gear will cost more than the rifle, if you buy quality stuff once. Shop around, there's quality used gear out there, rifles included.

 

[twortley]

Thanks for the input, I have most the gear I brought with me *except* a high power rifle. Still have my Walther 3position rifles in UK waiting for me to get familiar with an ATF Form 6 import, but will be a while with government agencies on both sides of the pond. Have ordered a match rifle upper in 223 (WOA), and still playing with the idea of getting my Rem700 in 308 setup to shoot iron sites & prone.

I am completely unfamiliar with sitting as a position, what the heck is that ? . Our 3 position is Standing, kneeling & prone. I'll work on those basics while waiting for spring and WOA upper to arrive.

Thanks for all the help here - and hopefully see you at matches. Of course I'm shooting IDPA and IPSC as well, so time will be a premium!

Tim